About to order $10k worth of LiFePo4 3.2v 302/310ah cells need to pick your brain here

Edwarder

Solar Enthusiast
Yes , in pictures from PWOD was the same for me but I received 32 batteries without any QR at all (just scratched) and 112 batteries with fake painted QR code in the corner .

Ask them to agree the terms of shipping only grade A.
They all send this bad quality because disputes states to return the batteries on your cost that is from your location $1000 because they have incentives and ship for free for them but not for us to return.

If any of things below is not in parameters the battery is Grade B :

View attachment 57814

Have you started testing the capacity of their batteries? I feel that the market is too messy, so capacity is too important for me. If it has 310Ah or above, I think there is no problem.
 

Mandy Chou (Deligreen)

Deligreen- Make DIY Battery Easier
Yes , in pictures from PWOD was the same for me but I received 32 batteries without any QR at all (just scratched) and 112 batteries with fake painted QR code in the corner .

Ask them to agree the terms of shipping only grade A.
They all send this bad quality because disputes states to return the batteries on your cost that is from your location $1000 because they have incentives and ship for free for them but not for us to return.

If any of things below is not in parameters the battery is Grade B :

View attachment 57814
This is not 100% right. Not all grade B batteries are like this. You posted 8 disadvantages for grade B cells. Some grade B cells appearance is really not good but other aspects are great.They are full capacity, they are normal for the voltage, and they are fresh. but some grade B are not like this. the buyers need to select the right supplier and need to know how to identify the quality. And whether the battery will work great or not also depends on where and how will you use them. Batteries for high speed EV and home energy storage ,the requirement will be quite different.
for example, you just need a 12V pack, discharge rate is only 0.2C, for energy storage purpose, choosing a reliable grade B batteries will be fine.
There are 3%~5% grade B batteries from battery factory. if we give up them, it will be a pollution to the environment. using them for solar/wind/ess application, they are good enough! they are originaly automative grade cells.
 

houseofancients

Solar Addict
This is not 100% right. Not all grade B batteries are like this. You posted 8 disadvantages for grade B cells. Some grade B cells appearance is really not good but other aspects are great.They are full capacity, they are normal for the voltage, and they are fresh. but some grade B are not like this. the buyers need to select the right supplier and need to know how to identify the quality. And whether the battery will work great or not also depends on where and how will you use them. Batteries for high speed EV and home energy storage ,the requirement will be quite different.
for example, you just need a 12V pack, discharge rate is only 0.2C, for energy storage purpose, choosing a reliable grade B batteries will be fine.
There are 3%~5% grade B batteries from battery factory. if we give up them, it will be a pollution to the environment. using them for solar/wind/ess application, they are good enough! they are originaly automative grade cells.
Mandy, that is a know fact, many bulk cells have this.
The true problem here is the mis representation some companies make.
There have been many cases where people through they were getting grade a cells, but were ( for lack of another word) lied too...

this is bad.

when someone knows they are buying grade b cells, and paying the according price, i dont think it would be such a big problem, but when someone thinks ( and clearly states they need grade a for their application) and pays for grade a.. they expect grade a
 

elvis_asaftei

Solar Enthusiast
Mandy, that is a know fact, many bulk cells have this.
The true problem here is the mis representation some companies make.
There have been many cases where people through they were getting grade a cells, but were ( for lack of another word) lied too...

this is bad.

when someone knows they are buying grade b cells, and paying the according price, i dont think it would be such a big problem, but when someone thinks ( and clearly states they need grade a for their application) and pays for grade a.. they expect grade a
If the title of the battery states “GRADE A” why would anyone allow and tolerate to receive anything else ?
Getting swollen batteries with rusted connections is something that we are not able to tolerate!
 

elvis_asaftei

Solar Enthusiast
This is not 100% right. Not all grade B batteries are like this. You posted 8 disadvantages for grade B cells. Some grade B cells appearance is really not good but other aspects are great.They are full capacity, they are normal for the voltage, and they are fresh. but some grade B are not like this. the buyers need to select the right supplier and need to know how to identify the quality. And whether the battery will work great or not also depends on where and how will you use them. Batteries for high speed EV and home energy storage ,the requirement will be quite different.
for example, you just need a 12V pack, discharge rate is only 0.2C, for energy storage purpose, choosing a reliable grade B batteries will be fine.
There are 3%~5% grade B batteries from battery factory. if we give up them, it will be a pollution to the environment. using them for solar/wind/ess application, they are good enough! they are originaly automative grade cells.
The fraud EU and USA buyers face here is that the sellers certify you will get GRADE A cells but they send you old and swollen cells that are refurbished that sometimes are very bad quality and swollen and IR too high and that have fake painted QR code and with original QR code scratched.
Buyers open a dispute and they get blackmailed because they must pay for shipping back to China with extremely high cost as a solution for the problem of sellers from China that was the problem at the first place because they testify GRADE A and they sent a counterfeit product with fake and painted QR code (original center QR code is scratched and new fake QR code is sometimes added from a lot of sellers, you can see the marks of scratching on the safety valve) and swollen and rusted connector batteries.

So buyers are protected by consumer laws in EU and USA and being deceived and lied about products being sent.
 

FrankS

New Member
a customer can expect that to spec orders goods are shipped and not marked up B-grade or worse. Cells need to be new and not reconditioned if sold as new! I experienced a similar story. Ordered 24 310Ah A-Grad cells and got 2 crap cells mixed with good ones. On opening a dispute seller stated all cells were tested prior shipment and ok?! I question that! One cell arrived with 2.99v and another cell was physically damaged - as happens when dropped onto one corner. All other cells were on 3,29V and shiny wrapped in blue shrink, some of them swollen! My intention was to build a 24V battery system for my RV - 3P8S configuration. If two cells are out of spec one cannot assemble the system! Box has already been made, copper bars cut to length and drilled, insulation paper was bought and also cut to length to wrap around each cell and so on. Eventually seller refunded 2 cells - wonderful but that doesn't help! Imagine a car with three wheels only and one cannot buy the missing wheel! Seller stated that he would send new cells on settling an agreement in the dispute, otherwise he could only refund two cells. On agreement seller refunded straight money and is only willing to send new cells if I place another order! Disgusting! I don't want to buy more cells! Also I noticed that he was playing on time - time difference between continents makes communication even slower. Game over after a few days and no means of escalating the case to Alibaba. Only another dispute can be opened but that doesn't lead to anything except of waste of time!
Although this spoils the savings in ordering cells from China, one can only order more cells then actually needed in order to inspect and select for assembling a system as intended - without waiting another 60 days! for next delivery!
I ordered this cells from this seller...
So be warned...
 

FrankS

New Member
Mandy, that is a know fact, many bulk cells have this.
The true problem here is the mis representation some companies make.
There have been many cases where people through they were getting grade a cells, but were ( for lack of another word) lied too...

this is bad.

when someone knows they are buying grade b cells, and paying the according price, i dont think it would be such a big problem, but when someone thinks ( and clearly states they need grade a for their application) and pays for grade a.. they expect grade a
you right, cells need to be in that condition as promised/ordered! It would be less painful if delivered cells were all on the same level of degradation if not new, otherwise, after assembled to a battery, some cells may misbehave and drive the BMS crazy! Look what my BMS is showing: one bad cell drags down overall performance of the whole battery!
 

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houseofancients

Solar Addict
now that we have seen it all , there's also a note i should add.
Many fall in to the race to the bottom trap..
their main criteria is cheapness, and they forget to check the available resources ( such as this forum)

a wise man ( my grand pops) once told me :

" if you want things for peanuts, you'll end up with monkey's "
 

FrankS

New Member
you can not compare granny's time and nowadays..a price these days is by no means an indicator for quality - those times are gone! So how could one compare if no or less experience? As you say, only reading in forums may prevent loss of money but for me e.g. I didn't know from this site before...
 

houseofancients

Solar Addict
you can not compare granny's time and nowadays..a price these days is by no means an indicator for quality - those times are gone! So how could one compare if no or less experience? As you say, only reading in forums may prevent loss of money but for me e.g. I didn't know from this site before...
oh come on , but that is bull crap.

facts of life : " if something seems to good tobbe true, it usually is"

both wisedoms are of any time.

furthermore, this information is widely available, on the web, youtube, forums etc etc etc

fact is that own has to prepare himself, and i bet if you take a good look in the mirror , you too will come to the conclusion, as will many, that your adventure lacked this proper preparation

my other hobby is breeding dogs of a certain type.
when i see ill prepared folks wanting a pup, i send them home with a months worth of things that are a must know, before they'll even be considered
 

Steve_S

Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
my other hobby is breeding dogs of a certain type.
when i see ill prepared folks wanting a pup, i send them home with a months worth of things that are a must know, before they'll even be considered
I did that with Siberian Huskies, people love the "look" but often do not understand that these are Working Dogs that get Bored Way too easily (hence become mischievous or have a tendency to run at any opportunity at freedom). And they usually fall over when it comes to the Shedding of Fur (Knit a new dog every 3 months of collected fur) 50% of people cannot deal with it because they do not understand the "breed". Like Jack Russel owners have to get used to a Hyperactive Super Smart Dog ! They can overwhelm unprepared folks too...

Bottom line learn & understand what you are dealing with and your expectations from your battery system. Make NO ASSUMPTIONS ! Most will prove to be incorrect.
 

FrankS

New Member
what I've learned from this deal is to buy more cells to compensate for bad cells next time! To end up with something useful I will buy 4 more cells, select the best cells and sell the surplus as B-Grad cells or assembled as battery for a lower price - to reduce my costs.
2 bad or better not 100% cells out of 24 cells is not that bad...even 10% more money for the cells is still a good deal...
Are you ordering puppies from China or why you mention this here?
 

Mcgivor

Solar Addict
My experience with a vendor in China was entirely different, I ordered 32 cells, no name brand bytes were cheap $55 for 100Ah, two had twarning labels that had lost their silver background, after alerting him to the fact, he responded within 15 minutes stating don't use them and that he would replace them at no charge without return of damaged cells.The replacements arrived 2 days later, express shipped to Thailand, I thought to myself "now that's support"

He sends updates when something new is available, he announced in late 2019 that he would be selling Grade A CALB cells and since my last LA bank was on borrowed time, I ordered some 200Ah cells, they arrived complete with sequential serial numbers and test reports from the factory.

Having positive results I recommend him as a vendor to someone else who lives in Japan, he is also a member of Diysolarforum.com but we met online at another forum. He too had a positive experience, having logistics assistance, I'll attach his handle if he wishes to add his comments @ken morgan .

The 200Ah CALB cells were almost the same price as the no name brand I originally purchased, but are much higher quality, the original ones have been in service for 3 years and still in ballance without any problems.

There are some excellent vendors, I would post the contact information if it's allowed, he deserves the business because he is extremely reliable.
 

houseofancients

Solar Addict
I did that with Siberian Huskies, people love the "look" but often do not understand that these are Working Dogs that get Bored Way too easily (hence become mischievous or have a tendency to run at any opportunity at freedom). And they usually fall over when it comes to the Shedding of Fur (Knit a new dog every 3 months of collected fur) 50% of people cannot deal with it because they do not understand the "breed". Like Jack Russel owners have to get used to a Hyperactive Super Smart Dog ! They can overwhelm unprepared folks too...

Bottom line learn & understand what you are dealing with and your expectations from your battery system. Make NO ASSUMPTIONS ! Most will prove to be incorrect.
We are breeding American Staffordshire Terriers ( American pitbull terrier in a different registry) , and i don't think i have to explain these dogs are not for everybody, and we very much expect potential puppy owner to have prepared themselves

extermely strong , highly intelligent, super enduring and in need of proper guidance to become good members of society

that being said : i love husky's

and can only 100% agree with your last statement
 

houseofancients

Solar Addict
what I've learned from this deal is to buy more cells to compensate for bad cells next time! To end up with something useful I will buy 4 more cells, select the best cells and sell the surplus as B-Grad cells or assembled as battery for a lower price - to reduce my costs.
2 bad or better not 100% cells out of 24 cells is not that bad...even 10% more money for the cells is still a good deal...
Are you ordering puppies from China or why you mention this here?
you clearly missed the point
 

ken morgan

Solar Addict
my take on the batteries that McIvor mentioned are as such First all of the batteries were the CALB SE200 type style, so an older smaller style, (compared to 280 eve or lishan) but I think the advantages for this type outweigh the smaller capacity. I have no clue if they are actual calbs or not, though I believe they are as their output and balance are too good to be 2nd hand, or b grade. At first I thought they might be NOS but I have seen nothing to indicate that as capacity measures out and no other issues that it seems you get form used, or grade B or NOS cells.

I have had no cell swelling, and no concerning cell drift on a 2p16s pack and no issues with the batteries at all. (initially what I thought was cell drift turned out to be me having issues with setting my SCC correctly and kept hitting high voltage disconnect via the BMS. when that happened I was getting .03-.05 volts difference. 3.65 vs 3.62 one time and 3.65 vs 3.6 the other time. since then I have managed to set the SCC to match the cells I am seeing .003~.006 variation. Funny thing, I spazzed so hard about that, that while imbibing Satan's go-go juice (wild turkey on the rocks) I ended up buying two of the heltec battery balancers which i don't need at all. I damn new gave myself an ulcer though fussing over them as I was scared they were going to have issues. lesson learned.

Shipping was reasonable for japan, shipping time was quick, and there was zero damage to the cells in any form from shipping. Just 32 brand new clean cells with bussbars and no issues. Roughly a six weeks of use now though and they power my 825 square foot cabin with zero issues. I am averaging about 10.5kw use after the sun goes down this last weekend and other than i need to get my extra panels installed for a quicker recharge, no issues at all.

Saving up for another 20 as I want to add 16 more for a total of 600 a/h for the cabin and 4 spares to build a 4s pack for my camper as its batteries are 10 years old and going...going...almost gone.

I watch all the videos and read all the posts about people having swelling issues before the arrive, and or dead cells and I am just happy I had zero issues in those regards. Mind you most of these stories are people who bought too good to be true deals it seems, at least to me. Folks that buy from Amy do not seem to have nearly the headaches that others seem to, but i must say I was quite happy with Jimmy's products and customer service. in the end, only time will tell. same for just about anything we buy when we are DYI'ing stuff.
 
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ken morgan

Solar Addict
Mandy, that is a know fact, many bulk cells have this.
The true problem here is the mis representation some companies make.
There have been many cases where people through they were getting grade a cells, but were ( for lack of another word) lied too...

this is bad.

when someone knows they are buying grade b cells, and paying the according price, i dont think it would be such a big problem, but when someone thinks ( and clearly states they need grade a for their application) and pays for grade a.. they expect grade a
and this is exactly what stopped me from ordering Lithium's initially. I was busy trying to find a good FLA or AGM again and ignored Lithium's due to all the issues I heard people were having with getting what they paid for. I took the jump after talking with McIvor and he let me know his experiences. word of mouth goes a long way in any sales environment.... both ways for that matter. Does this forum have a wall of shame vendor wise as a resource? might be time to make one. Sellers on Alibaba would be loathe to pop up on a wall of shame. just my thoughts.
 

Steve_S

Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
There are TWO Thoughts running along. For example, I'll use the common 280AH cells, Bulk at 95 & Matched Batched at 125,
Buying 16 Bulk +(2 Spares = $190 +S&H for them on top, so "Polite" $230-$250 shipped).
16 Bulk = 1520 (-S&H) With 2 extras = 1710 +S&H (also it is an extra box ++ S&H)
16 Matched Batched =2000 + S&H (no extra box S&H $) and no extra cells to get rid of (and Less than 4 cells is HARD to sell !, can't make a pack with < 4 cells right.

Consider Penny Wise & Dollar Foolish AND Dollar Wise & Penny Foolish. Which applies ? If in doubt, ask your spouse !
 
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