Abusing free nights electricity plan with batteries

[ConnerLabs]

So its $12 billion for something that has just above the output of the now shutdown Liddell coal power units (4*500MW).

Im just curious how much battery ESS could be bought for AUD12 billion....at $2 billion snowy 2.0 seemed like a reasonable value.

Well the LFP cells we can buy work out about $50/kWh.
$12 billion = 240,000,000kWh = 240GWh if my math is right...

Of course you need other equipment like huge transformers and inverters and some fairly large buildings to put it in. That could add a fair amount to the cost. But on the other hand, it should be possible to negotiate a bulk discount when buying cells in this quantity.

 

[Brucey]

Well the LFP cells we can buy work out about $50/kWh.
$12 billion = 240,000,000kWh = 240GWh if my math is right...

Of course you need other equipment like huge transformers and inverters and some fairly large buildings to put it in. That could add a fair amount to the cost. But on the other hand, it should be possible to negotiate a bulk discount when buying cells in this quantity.

China was getting bids for a 16GWh ESS in December 2024 for an average of USD$66.3 per kWh, all in with everything included. So around AUD$100 all in per kWh including 20 years of maintenance etc.

PowerChina receives bids for 16 GWh BESS tender with average price of $66.3/kWh - Energy Storage

The tender marks the largest energy storage procurement in China's history.

www.ess-news.com

 

[Hedges]

We can run the show off renewables during the day (to the extent that baseload can not be reduced any more lest the network become unstable). It's overnight that is the fly in the ointment. We have nothing to cope with that, and really nothing that is going to be able to do it on the horzion either.

What major loads are needed at night?
Heat? make distributed thermal storage.

 

[faultcurrent]

What major loads are needed at night?
Heat? make distributed thermal storage.

Southern states do use gas for heating in winter. No idea on how many GJ are used though.

 

[wattmatters]

So its $12 billion for something that has just above the output of the now shutdown Liddell coal power units (4*500MW).

I'm not defending SH2, I was just pointing out that it (amongst other large energy storage facilities) is actually being built when it was claimed there were no storage facilities under construction.

at $2 billion snowy 2.0 seemed like a reasonable value.

At that (bullshit made up) price it was always a politician's talking point.

The power projects which consistently run way over budget are nuclear and large hydro.

and this is a one day snapshot (yesterday) show the reality of the situation.

Yes, and we have come a long way and have a long way to go. But suggesting it won't happen isn't right. It's been evolving and will keep on doing so. We need a LOT more wind power to deal with the coal retirements, and that's the primary bit which is lagging.

What is interesting about that chart is the emergence of the deep blue section during the peak - that's battery discharge - and we have 10 times that capacity in the pipeline.

There is a transition roadmap for those interested:

https://www.aemo.com.au/energy-systems/major-publications/integrated-system-plan-isp

 

[faultcurrent]

What I initially said was this "The real crunch will come as coal baseload is progressively shut down (aged plant etc). That will open up an around 180GWh hole overnight for the east coast network (NEM) that so far no one has explained how it will be filled."

Yes I did say no large grid scale was being built, and that still stands in my opinion. Snowy 2 is like pitting a pebble against a steam roller. The battery systems proposed aren't going to get us there either.

That stands. Pitch what is being done against the schedule of planned coal generation shutdown. Taking only the amount of coal generation that will be shutdown by 2030 we need to triple renewables. That's 5 years away and it doesn't just stop there. It needs to continue, and we desperately need storage expansion too.

The station at Gladstone (1.6GW) is being shut down 6 years ahead of plan and RT hasn't secured sufficient renewables to cover that removal, not least because there's not sufficient storage to back up the variable renewables PV and wind being used to replace it. This isn't me saying this either, this is industry news. There's real possibility that the smelter at Gladstone may have to suspend operations because of lack of stable electrical supply. Again from industry news, if all, yes all existing grid scale batteries in Queensland and those that are proposed were made available to RT in 2029 it would not be sufficient to cover the removal of that 1.6GW of coal generation and power the smelter for 24 hours.

Maybe the Queensland government's bucket of money will persuade RT to keep that station operating. Fingers crossed. That's the current government's plan too. A big bucket of money to pay private generation and maintain government generation until 2045. A big bucket which hasn't actually appeared yet.

 

[oldguynewsolar]

as i read this it seems like OP calcs are for 12 hours but electricity plan is 11 hours? i am also in Texas on "Free Nights" plan (8pm to 6am). I have an EG4 12000xp and 64kWh of battery (MB31 cells) and 10.8kW of solar. During summer months I would not have made it through several days on just the 64kWh of battery power without the solar power. My consumption is also roughly 2000kWh/month but the summer is higher by far. So i do not believe that 64kWh is enough to accomplish the stated goal. Also I am off grid in that everything is self consumption and my inverter is in bypass mode all the time. I have only charged at night twice in a year solely due to having the solar power but to power a home load and sufficiently recharge 64kWh at night might be beyond the 100a pass through of the 12000XP (5ton AC unit). Also of note is that my provider contacted me after 6 months on the plan and offered me a 30 month renewal and $50 to renew! I took it.

 

[Boandabby]

as i read this it seems like OP calcs are for 12 hours but electricity plan is 11 hours? i am also in Texas on "Free Nights" plan (8pm to 6am). I have an EG4 12000xp and 64kWh of battery (MB31 cells) and 10.8kW of solar. During summer months I would not have made it through several days on just the 64kWh of battery power without the solar power. My consumption is also roughly 2000kWh/month but the summer is higher by far. So i do not believe that 64kWh is enough to accomplish the stated goal. Also I am off grid in that everything is self consumption and my inverter is in bypass mode all the time. I have only charged at night twice in a year solely due to having the solar power but to power a home load and sufficiently recharge 64kWh at night might be beyond the 100a pass through of the 12000XP (5ton AC unit). Also of note is that my provider contacted me after 6 months on the plan and offered me a 30 month renewal and $50 to renew! I took it.

does your consumption of 2000 kwh include the day time use? How long have you been on "Free nights" plan? The agreement says they can change your free night plan after they find you have batteries or solar.