AC wiring dual multiplus'

cinergi

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That is how I wired it for split. Only difference is my grounds are grounded to a grounding block from the MPs AC ins and outs and then grounded to the frame.

Wired that way, then configured for split, the slave overloads (overload light comes on and it turns off

The only explanation I can think of is that it's not actually wired correctly. Are you able to take pictures such that we can trace the wiring? And perhaps a screenshot of the configuration that shows the split-phase config?
 

cinergi

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First thing that jumps at me (not the issue) is that you have AC-IN-2, where that should say AC-OUT-2 on those.

Second thing (could be your issue) is that your ground between units seems to be floating in the diagram. Shore ground should tie to both master and slave units.
Output ground should tie from master to slave output ground and go to the panel.

Not the OP's diagram (it's mine, for reference). I don't use AC-IN-2 (the wires nearby are the DC wires).

The grounds aren't actually floating - they're daisy-chained to avoid the ground loop that occurs if I tie grounds together in multiple locations (e.g. before AC-IN and after AC-OUT).
 

cinergi

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Final thoughts - in my 5th wheel, there isn't a single device that actually uses split phase power. I have a 50a feed, L1 and L2, but nothing uses both sides for anything. I suspect that you don't actually need split phase service, so you can just use the parallel configuration rather than the split phase configuration.

*I* do (240vac mini-split), but the OP doesn't.
 

TankFish

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The only explanation I can think of is that it's not actually wired correctly. Are you able to take pictures such that we can trace the wiring? And perhaps a screenshot of the configuration that shows the split-phase config?
I would if I could. I "beautified" the wiring. I could show you the connection at the MPs and maybe see it at the panel if I could get an angle.

When I bought this, there was a wire rats nest (behind the false panel like most). I pretty much tore all that out and re-ran it line by line to clean it up, shorten the excess wire and Anchor it up so it wasn't just laying in a pile. Wire conduit covers, the works. Everything is mounted and hung like you would see in a house wiring into a panel.

I might try and find an electrician out here and have them look it over. I'm by no means an expert and may have missed something. If I can get one here on base or that can get on base, and they see/find the issue; I'll post it.
 

willo

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Troubleshooting wise, I'd get the primary going, then check voltages on the secondary side - maybe even disconnect the input to the secondary just to check for a circuit bridge.

I would also check each for independent operation. Since you're splitting the 50A to each one, then each of these can actually operate independently. So yeah, try each one in 'stand alone' mode. Also, are all of your loads off while testing this? The only time I get an overload light is when I kick on an A/C that I haven't added a soft start to yet.
 

TankFish

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Troubleshooting wise, I'd get the primary going, then check voltages on the secondary side - maybe even disconnect the input to the secondary just to check for a circuit bridge.

I would also check each for independent operation. Since you're splitting the 50A to each one, then each of these can actually operate independently. So yeah, try each one in 'stand alone' mode. Also, are all of your loads off while testing this? The only time I get an overload light is when I kick on an A/C that I haven't added a soft start to yet.
They are both running standalone as we speak. They run just fine standalone with no issues other than the fact I can only see/configure one with the CCGX. I could just leave them this way. I just wanted piece of mind I guess and a little more versatility.

When I configure them, I turn off the shore breaker, and the mains in the rig. No input or output at all. When I've completed a config for say split (and the wiring), I turn the shore breaker on. It overloads the slave right away with no output draw.
 

cinergi

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I would if I could. I "beautified" the wiring. I could show you the connection at the MPs and maybe see it at the panel if I could get an angle.

When I bought this, there was a wire rats nest (behind the false panel like most). I pretty much tore all that out and re-ran it line by line to clean it up, shorten the excess wire and Anchor it up so it wasn't just laying in a pile. Wire conduit covers, the works. Everything is mounted and hung like you would see in a house wiring into a panel.

I might try and find an electrician out here and have them look it over. I'm by no means an expert and may have missed something. If I can get one here on base or that can get on base, and they see/find the issue; I'll post it.

OK ... we can try to ask a million questions in lieu of pictures ... a rough diagram would help (which wire is going where) or even a picture of the inside of the multiplus with some hand-drawn notes/arrows pointing to what's-what would go a long way. It smells like a wiring problem somewhere.
One other thing to try, if you can, is to disconnect all the AC outputs (including any shared wires like neutral, other than ground), configure to split, and turn them on. That should absolutely work since there should be no chance of current flowing somewhere it's not supposed to. That'll tell us a lot.
 

TankFish

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OK ... we can try to ask a million questions in lieu of pictures ... a rough diagram would help (which wire is going where) or even a picture of the inside of the multiplus with some hand-drawn notes/arrows pointing to what's-what would go a long way. It smells like a wiring problem somewhere.
One other thing to try, if you can, is to disconnect all the AC outputs (including any shared wires like neutral, other than ground), configure to split, and turn them on. That should absolutely work since there should be no chance of current flowing somewhere it's not supposed to. That'll tell us a lot.
I can't disconnect right now. To hot out and need to keep the family cool. I can this evening when it cools down.

Here is a rough, very rough, drawing of how I set it up. The wire lengths are all the same, hots, grounds, neutrals, everything, so ignore the line lengths in the drawing, was just to make it a bit more visible. Obviously have DC in and outs hooked up, but didn't add those and confuse the drawing. I'm not using the second AC outs on either Multi.
 

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cinergi

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I can't disconnect right now. To hot out and need to keep the family cool. I can this evening when it cools down.

Here is a rough, very rough, drawing of how I set it up. The wire lengths are all the same, hots, grounds, neutrals, everything, so ignore the line lengths in the drawing, was just to make it a bit more visible. Obviously have DC in and outs hooked up, but didn't add those and confuse the drawing. I'm not using the second AC outs on either Multi.

Looks reasonable enough. There must be something we're missing ... gonna need some detective work!
 

TankFish

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Looks reasonable enough. There must be something we're missing ... gonna need some detective work!
That's is exactly why I came here, I'm missing something and now my mind.

It works flawlessly hooked up like that non configured. Once I configure it, send the configuration, the slave gets an overload.

Maybe I'm missing something in the config? I mean, it's not rocket science. The systems (Ve config and bus config) are very simple. Ve bus, split 180*, one on L1 and the second on L2. Send the configs. Go into each multi ve config from bus config by right clicking on one then config. Configure batteries, settup ESS... all covered very well in the videos
 

willo

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Yeah, this looks reasonable. I agree with ceinergi, disco the outputs and try again. That way there's no electrical reason for the overload.

Also, lemme as a dumb question. Did you upgrade firmware on both units to match? Are you certain that they match?
I'd then check hardware revisions and verify that you didn't get different hardware revisions.

Finally, have you tried swapping the master/secondary unit order? Does the overload move to the other unit?
 

TankFish

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Yeah, this looks reasonable. I agree with ceinergi, disco the outputs and try again. That way there's no electrical reason for the overload.

Also, lemme as a dumb question. Did you upgrade firmware on both units to match? Are you certain that they match?
I'd then check hardware revisions and verify that you didn't get different hardware revisions.

Finally, have you tried swapping the master/secondary unit order? Does the overload move to the other unit?
I am going to try the no ac load test in the morning when everyone is asleep and it's still cooler. We are in the Mojave Desert, gets a bit warm in this sauna box in the day.

I loaded the firmware myself and checked the versions. They are the same. How do you check the hardware revisions? I'm sure I could goggle it real fast if you don't remember off the top of your head. I have no idea if the hardware is matching other than model and spec (24v 3000w).

I have tried switching them. They just click on then off, wait about 15 seconds, do it again and again. So I either get the overload on the L2 slave or clicking making L1 the slave.
 

willo

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OOOOOH, I didn't realize you were super dependent on this.
You can probably just kill the main dual breaker to do the no load test. (I'd start there for sure)

This PDF has some good info on firmware compatibility.

Interesting section:
Firmware compatibility in three- and split-phase systems Units with old and new microprocessors can be used together in parallel and three-phase installations without any problems. Combining virtual switch firmware (100 – 199) with assistant firmware (200 – 499) is not possible. It is important to always use the same, and the last, firmware in each unit.

The other thing I would do would be to stick a multimeter on each leg and monitor voltage during the testing. It could be helpful.
Any data point is useful.

I'm a network engineer, so here's my mantra to co-workers:
  • Make a diagram
  • Double check all your assumptions, check the basics.
For electronics work, I often check connections and then mark them off on my wiring diagram. I suggest doing this, it shouldn't be too bad.

Now final goofy Q: Have you connected the chassis ground lugs together? On mine there's a ground terminal on the chassis at the base. You may see some really weird behavior if the grounds are floating.

To be clear, are you off-grid right now or are you using a shore feed? Have you checked if your shore wiring is correct? This could be a goofy shore input issue causing odd crosstalk.
 

TankFish

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OOOOOH, I didn't realize you were super dependent on this.
You can probably just kill the main dual breaker to do the no load test. (I'd start there for sure)

This PDF has some good info on firmware compatibility.

Interesting section:
Firmware compatibility in three- and split-phase systems Units with old and new microprocessors can be used together in parallel and three-phase installations without any problems. Combining virtual switch firmware (100 – 199) with assistant firmware (200 – 499) is not possible. It is important to always use the same, and the last, firmware in each unit.

The other thing I would do would be to stick a multimeter on each leg and monitor voltage during the testing. It could be helpful.
Any data point is useful.

I'm a network engineer, so here's my mantra to co-workers:
  • Make a diagram
  • Double check all your assumptions, check the basics.
For electronics work, I often check connections and then mark them off on my wiring diagram. I suggest doing this, it shouldn't be too bad.

Now final goofy Q: Have you connected the chassis ground lugs together? On mine there's a ground terminal on the chassis at the base. You may see some really weird behavior if the grounds are floating.

To be clear, are you off-grid right now or are you using a shore feed? Have you checked if your shore wiring is correct? This could be a goofy shore input issue causing odd crosstalk.
Yes, we are full timers. So, turning power off for a long period of time only happens when I get up earlier than everyone or I'm the only one home. Our pups are older and don't do well in the heat, so AC's run most of the hot hours after windows get closed.

I am not off grid. We are on Marine Corps installation. I'm retired, my wife is still active. I have checked the feeds, I bought a meter online that you can plug in and it shows the readings, just so we don't plug into junk, like at some RV parks.

I have not connected any grounds. I took down the underbelly when I was cleaning up the wiring and there was only one ground running from the main breaker to the frame. The only other ground is, up front at the auto leveling system, they grounded those connections on the raised from portion of the 5th wheel.

I have a hand drawn diagram with wires, gages, loads, what fuses are on what line, etc. My handwriting is like a child's, that is why I made that PDF earlier. Much easier to see for you guys.

I'm pretty sure I have new processors on both. If I remember correctly, ESS assistant can't be installed on the old ones, and they also take a different firmware. Other than that, I'll have to check on their specifics in the morning when I'm doing a no load setup and test.
 
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