AC300 or Titan - or something else?

[Marc4274]

I am looking for a unit that will be used stationary for supplemental home power and back up when needed. It will run all the time. Eventually I'd like to use it in a small cabin for power. I have the AC200P unit and it works well, but not enough battery or solar input - but actually the inverter size is probably enough.

So a couple questions - would you choose the Titan or AC300 - and is there a quality/dependability edge for one or the other?

Is there a different unit I'm not considering like the Delta Pro that I should?

I don't want to build a system yet, as time is super limited for me, and I like the plug and play simplicity.

Thanks!

 

[dmholmes]

EcoFlow seems more on top of their game, I'd go with the Delta Pro personally. I doubt you could get a Titan in any reasonable timeframe.

 

[fdwlaw]

I've been trying to figure this out now for a while. I want the Titan but the battery chemistry is causing me to hesitate. The Bluetti AC300 to me is the next best option to the Titan only because of the batteries in the AC300.
I can get the Titan 1.0 and an extra battery (4,000 Wh) for $4,790 no tax and the AC300 and an extra battery (6,000 Wh) for $6,115 tax included.

Decisions decisions!

 

[fdwlaw]

I am looking for a unit that will be used stationary for supplemental home power and back up when needed. It will run all the time. Eventually I'd like to use it in a small cabin for power. I have the AC200P unit and it works well, but not enough battery or solar input - but actually the inverter size is probably enough.

So a couple questions - would you choose the Titan or AC300 - and is there a quality/dependability edge for one or the other?

Is there a different unit I'm not considering like the Delta Pro that I should?

I don't want to build a system yet, as time is super limited for me, and I like the plug and play simplicity.

Thanks!

What did you end up getting?

 

[Marc4274]

I have not bought one yet. Looking at the Delta Pro but waiting for Will's review on it. I'd really like to go AC300, but it seems they have had some issues with them, and I'm not sure they are all worked out yet.

AC200 MAX would work for me too - but I'd really like to have a larger solar input so I can connect two of the 1000 watt series of panels I already have set up. But a 200 MAX is in the running.

The Titan looked good - but I'm not interested until they go Iron phosphate.

Any input at all is appreciated!

 

[Rocksnsalt]

I’m really surprised a legit manufacturer has not come up with something similar in design to the Titan, using LifeP04 chemistry.
Modular click together with no ridiculous awkward and space taking connecting cables (like with Bluetti) is key and seems so obvious as the best design. Imagine if Battleborn or SOK or a manufacturer like Victron came out with such a system. Or EG4 / Signature Solar.
Skip the bougee attempts at style and the space inefficient curves in design.
Make it Box shaped with sturdy built in handles that are also designed to be used as tie down points.
Make the system 12.8v/400ah/5.12kwh, with expansion packs available in 200ah and 400ah increments.
It would look similar to the current designs in server rack batteries.

Stack and play.
Why is an all in one like this not available NOW.
That’s not really a question…

PS
Weight can be delt with by offering a simple cart option like Bluetti did for the ac 200.
Retractable/locking or at least locking wheels please. Admittedly, lifting may still be a challenge though, unless a scissor lift cart.

 

[Marc4274]

One thing would like your thoughts on - the AC200 MAX with a B230 has 4000 watt hours, vs 3600 for a Delta Pro. That's 10% More battery, which is quite a bit.

I will have 1000 watts of solar to connect to. I am not sure how much it will pull in on a good day, as the AC200P we have maxes out at 700 watts input. On a good day it will show 700 and up to 710 watts coming in. How much would you expect 1000 watts of solar to collect per hour on a good day? I don't know if there is a standard number like 80% or 90% of what's rated.

I think it doesn't make sense to have more battery than I can fill in a day, if it's used daily. Does this make sense? But I would like to collect all we can of course.

 

[nodoze]

Of those 3 choices I would go with the Bluetti AC300 (being ready to expand to two if needed) over the Delta Pro or the current Titan (since 2.0 is still not out).

 

[Rocksnsalt]

One thing would like your thoughts on - the AC200 MAX with a B230 has 4000 watt hours, vs 3600 for a Delta Pro. That's 10% More battery, which is quite a bit.

I will have 1000 watts of solar to connect to. I am not sure how much it will pull in on a good day, as the AC200P we have maxes out at 700 watts input. On a good day it will show 700 and up to 710 watts coming in. How much would you expect 1000 watts of solar to collect per hour on a good day? I don't know if there is a standard number like 80% or 90% of what's rated.

I think it doesn't make sense to have more battery than I can fill in a day, if it's used daily. Does this make sense? But I would like to collect all we can of course.

I’d rather have power for at least a few days… especially in winter when there may not be much sun for days at a time. Or if something unexpected comes up and you have to use more power that day.
If it’s possible to put a 12kwh power system on the rear passenger sidewall of a sprinter van (Volta System in Storyteller Sprinter and Transit vans) someone can make an expandable locking stacking 5kwh system that’s portable and manageable with a cart or built in retractable beefy wheels. Expandable in increments of 2kwh or 3kwh… to 15kwh. (!) ?
Please please please.

 

[Marc4274]

Of those 3 choices I would go with the Bluetti AC300 (being ready to expand to two if needed) over the Delta Pro or the current Titan (since 2.0 is still not out).

I like the AC300 or even 200 Max - but can I ask why?

 

[nodoze]

I like the AC300 or even 200 Max - but can I ask why?

I think Will hits on many of the reasons why I typed the above at 723 seconds into this video (note that he posted his video after I typed my response):

The biggest things that come to mind are that the AC300 system scales to more solar & more battery and that if the AC300 unit fails the batteries can still be used (charged and discharged) while the AC300 is being repaired. I also like the modularity of the AC300 system more. I do like that the Delta-Pro has a generator option but I don't like that it reduces the battery capacity & the fact that it doesn't support propane makes it a non-starter for me.

If my memory is correct I also liked that the AC300 worked well as a true UPS including self restart from total power drain (if I recall correctly Will in a previous video drained his AC300 until it died and his solar panels woke it up the next morning) & I don't know if the Delta-Pro can/does that.

 

[Abodyofscience]

5 hrs @ 10 kw = 50 kwh.
Three days = 72 hrs.
50kwh/72 hrs = 0.7 kw for 72 hrs.
With batt. loss, ~0.5 kw for 72 hrs.

Energy in minus losses = energy out

 

[Marc4274]

Thanks! I could actually squeeze two Delta Pro's into the budget, and theoretically run 240 volt for our well pump - but not sure how well it would work.

It would be a long while before I could swing two AC300's with two B300's on each, as I don't think I'd want just one B300 on an AC300.

 

[nodoze]

Thanks! I could actually squeeze two Delta Pro's into the budget, and theoretically run 240 volt for our well pump - but not sure how well it would work.

It would be a long while before I could swing two AC300's with two B300's on each, as I don't think I'd want just one B300 on an AC300.

Wouldn't 2 AC300s with 2 B300 on each be 12,288Wh total compared to 2 Delta-Pros with 7,200Wh (so approaching double Wh)?

Wouldn't 2 AC300+B300 ($3,599 each with 3072Wh each) be a more apt comparison to 2 Delta-Pros (also $3,599 each with 3600Wh each)?

 

[Marc4274]

I agree that's a better comparison. I just hesitate to go as low as 3000Wh battery, as with the AC200P's we have the inverter size is OK, but battery is way short. I figured 3000 Wh is 20% less than the 3600.

Totally agree - 2 AC300 with two B300 would be awesome - just can't swing the $$$.

 

[nodoze]

I agree that's a better comparison. I just hesitate to go as low as 3000Wh battery, as with the AC200P's we have the inverter size is OK, but battery is way short. I figured 3000 Wh is 20% less than the 3600.

Totally agree - 2 AC300 with two B300 would be awesome - just can't swing the $$$.

3072/3600 is at least 85% with only 528Wh difference and I would not design a system where 528Wh makes or breaks it.

While 528Wh is a little less the system scales much more while having more modularly and that to me is worth more.

Edit: You indicated above you could swing 2 Delta-Pros which would be the same price as 2 AC300s with 2 B300s (one B300 with each AC300)... For the same price ($7,198) the Bluetti config would be 6144Wh vs 7,200Wh for the Ecoflow config...

Note: I have not seen a direct comparison of the overall "round trip" efficiency of power in and out for the two systems which may make a substantial difference (especially on top of the 528Wh per building block)... If the round trip efficiency of one solution vs the other is significantly different that would be persuasive to me...

 

[Marc4274]

I agree - all good perspective and things to consider. Especially it would be great to see what the overhead usage is for each.

I would like to see a unit with really basic controls that could keep the self consumption really low.

Honestly if I wasn't toying with the idea of 240 capacity, I'd probably go with an AC200 Max and one or two extra B230's. May still go that way too, as I'm not sure how well these units will do on a well pump without me adding more solar and reconfiguring panels.

 

[nodoze]

I agree - all good perspective and things to consider. Especially it would be great to see what the overhead usage is for each.

I would like to see a unit with really basic controls that could keep the self consumption really low.

Honestly if I wasn't toying with the idea of 240 capacity, I'd probably go with an AC200 Max and one or two extra B230's. May still go that way too, as I'm not sure how well these units will do on a well pump without me adding more solar and reconfiguring panels.

I think either a Delta-Pro or AC300 based system should serve your situation pretty well. Assuming both have about the same round-trip efficiency I think both have their pros/cons so I hope I don't come across as against the Delta-Pro approach...

Personally I would go with either of them over the AC200max just from an overall scalability and flexibility standpoint. Eventually I would likely want to have the solution able to also support 240v & going through a seamless critical loads panel and both solutions seem to have that ability.

For me I think of think of the solutions as a backup to grid power with any energy offset by solar a bonus (basically I want an Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) type system). Being able to run my critical loads (including a well pump & septic pump) when grid power is out is my main priority. To date most of the issues we have had have been intermittent grid power losses (none have been more than 24 hours & typically they are 1-6 hours) so in my case I would be fine recharging my batteries with both solar & grid depending on the situation/time/etc so having undersized solar panels isn't a total deal breaker as I use grid input also. Mainly sharing that info as it does color my input some...

 

[Marc4274]

I want to say thanks for all the input. I am new to solar in the last year, and really appreciate the feedback.

I put up three sets of panels, 1000 wats each (5 - 200 watt Rich panels) on a shed roof, and ran the cables into our basement. At the end of each one is an AC200P. They have been good units, but they are just too small battery wise to permanently hook much up to them. Our goal is to run critical things in a power outage. The AC200P was what I thought was the best unit we could get last year (wanted a Titan, but too long a wait).
They work awesome - just too small battery wise.

So I have these three strings of solar I'd like to use without re-wiring, and we pull in way more energy than the 200P can store. Do you think a single string of 1000 watts would supply an AC300 or Delta Pro decent? It fills the AC200P super fast on sunny days.

After I get this figured out I want to add the transfer switch to patch into the breaker panel to run things. Open to any other thoughts too!

Thanks

 

[nodoze]

I want to say thanks for all the input. I am new to solar in the last year, and really appreciate the feedback.

I put up three sets of panels, 1000 wats each (5 - 200 watt Rich panels) on a shed roof, and ran the cables into our basement. At the end of each one is an AC200P. They have been good units, but they are just too small battery wise to permanently hook much up to them. Our goal is to run critical things in a power outage. The AC200P was what I thought was the best unit we could get last year (wanted a Titan, but too long a wait).
They work awesome - just too small battery wise.

So I have these three strings of solar I'd like to use without re-wiring, and we pull in way more energy than the 200P can store. Do you think a single string of 1000 watts would supply an AC300 or Delta Pro decent? It fills the AC200P super fast on sunny days.

After I get this figured out I want to add the transfer switch to patch into the breaker panel to run things. Open to any other thoughts too!

Thanks

In summary it sounds like you should be able to replace at least 2 of your AC200Ps (possibly all 3) with a single AC300 for now and later maybe add another AC300 for 240v...

I am fairly new also but if I understand correctly a single AC300 has 2 solar MPPT inputs each capable of 1200W at 12-150V (2400W total) so you should be able to easily leverage at least 2 of your 3 current 1000W strings without rewiring... I think each B300 battery also has an MPPT that supports 200W but I likely would just go through the 2 MPPTs on the AC300 (depending on what actual efficiencies & wattages you are seeing you could maybe rewire slightly to over-panel each MPPT upto 1400W using 14 of your 15 panels directly into a single AC300). That or for "phase 1" keep 1 of your current AC200Ps on one string and replace the other 2 AC200Ps with a single AC300 with your other two 1000W strings.

If I understand Bluetti's Smart Home Panel correctly it works to power critical loads via either a single AC300 (for 120V only) or two AC300s (for both 120V & 240V circuits) which means it could maybe grow with you if you start with a single AC300 and later want to add 240V support for your well pump:

Smart Home Panel

AC300 shipping Time: Mid-May Compatible Models: AC300, EP500,EP500Pro Used to integrate the power station to home circuit to keep vital home loads powered when the grid goes down. Click To Download Smart Home Panel User Guide

www.bluettipower.com

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0536/3390/8911/files/SMART_HOME_PANEL_V1.1_22.01.24.pdf?v=1643010491

That or maybe you can adapt a more standard transfer switch to start off on 120V circuits to begin with and then maybe later add 240V service. If not then you could start with a 120V transfer switch and then later replace it with a 240V one from a vendor like this:

Top-Quality Transfer Switch Kit | Reliance Controls

We provide top-quality generator transfer and safety switch, generator transfer panel, power transfer switch for generator, and house generator transfer switch.

www.reliancecontrols.com

One thing I don't like about the Bluetti panel is that it looks like it is all or nothing regarding switching circuits to/from the Bluetti and personally I would like to use a switch more like this that would let me switch each individual circuit between grid/generator(solar) or off:

Top-Quality Transfer Switch Kit | Reliance Controls

We provide top-quality generator transfer and safety switch, generator transfer panel, power transfer switch for generator, and house generator transfer switch.

www.reliancecontrols.com