add victron multiplus to renogy system?

[contractor_chris]

hello all, this is my first post here and im fairly new to solar everything. I have a general knowledge of ac/dc electric as im a general contractor on homes by trade a carpenter though. I have an alliance valor that came with a standard renogy solar package from factory. That includes two (2) 320 watt panels on the roof, a 40a mmpt solar controller, and i have added 3 more 100ah lithium batteries so i have a total of four (4) 100ah lithium batteries now. The rv also has a generator, so there is an auto transfer switch. I dont need a ton of power all the time and would just like to be able to watch the tv, and have functioning outlets to use the coffee maker or charge phones etc without running the generator. I am buying a victron multiplus ii 12-3000 and just want to make sure i have a good understanding what im doing and what all else i need for install. I believe i just need to fuse the power going into the victron, then run the power out to the auto transfer switch? probably would be a good idea to add a buss bar also for batteries? I do plan down the road to upgrade the charge controller, add more panels etc. but for now i JUST want to add the inverter. I also was told i need to program the inverter, so i need to buy something for that and then will need assitance in that aspect. Every time ive posted else where about this i just get a business that wants to sell me a 10k dollar install package or a business thats trying to push parts and get me to upgrade panels, and everything now and wind up with a 4500 dollar bill. I dont boondock or am off grid often, but when i am and see i need more from the system i will save up for the other upgrades.
Thanks in advance!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I am buying a victron multiplus ii 12-3000

Congrats! You've been smurfed!

I believe i just need to fuse the power going into the victron,

yes.

then run the power out to the auto transfer switch?

Yes. The AC output should also have a breaker on it.

probably would be a good idea to add a buss bar also for batteries?

Yes. See link #6 in my signature, section 3.3 for paralleling batteries.

I do plan down the road to upgrade the charge controller, add more panels etc. but for now i JUST want to add the inverter. I also was told i need to program the inverter, so i need to buy something for that and then will need assitance in that aspect.

MK3-USB and MAC/Windows PC running VictronConnect OR
MK3-USB and Windows PC running VEConfigure3

There is a version of the MK3-USB that has a USB C connector, and that can be used for Android + VictronConnect. Not sure about iPhone.

Most of the settings are good out of the box, but you might want to customize something. We can help with the specifics.

Every time ive posted else where about this i just get a business that wants to sell me a 10k dollar install package or a business thats trying to push parts and get me to upgrade panels, and everything now and wind up with a 4500 dollar bill. I dont boondock or am off grid often, but when i am and see i need more from the system i will save up for the other upgrades.
Thanks in advance!

Fortunately, self-promotion is not allowed on this site; however, you'll find plenty of Victron fanatics that will encourage you to lighten your wallets with their favorite dealers. Favorites because they give great support - not because we get anything from it. I'm probably the worst offender. The Victron fanatics around here are "smurfs," and I have been called "Papa Smurf" more than once...

If you don't already have a legit battery monitor - one that actually counts Ah in and out of the battery, I vigorously recommend a smartshunt, so you can have a firm grasp of the status of your battery bank.

 

[Brucey]

 

[JRH]

Congrats! You've been smurfed!

The Future Is Blue………..Power To The Smurfs……..

 

[contractor_chris]

Congrats! You've been smurfed!



yes.



Yes. The AC output should also have a breaker on it.



Yes. See link #6 in my signature, section 3.3 for paralleling batteries.



MK3-USB and MAC/Windows PC running VictronConnect OR
MK3-USB and Windows PC running VEConfigure3

There is a version of the MK3-USB that has a USB C connector, and that can be used for Android + VictronConnect. Not sure about iPhone.

Most of the settings are good out of the box, but you might want to customize something. We can help with the specifics.



Fortunately, self-promotion is not allowed on this site; however, you'll find plenty of Victron fanatics that will encourage you to lighten your wallets with their favorite dealers. Favorites because they give great support - not because we get anything from it. I'm probably the worst offender. The Victron fanatics around here are "smurfs," and I have been called "Papa Smurf" more than once...

If you don't already have a legit battery monitor - one that actually counts Ah in and out of the battery, I vigorously recommend a smartshunt, so you can have a firm grasp of the status of your battery bank.

i dont know how to break the convo up and answer how you did HAHA so bare with me. what is better victronconnect or the veconfigure3?
i am team android no no worries with iphone crap lol
im sure ill ask about the custom configuration once installed
i have the renogy battery monitor with shunt so that wont be replaced untill i upgrade the rest of the system (yes want a victron charge controler and thats when ill upgrade the monitor)

i installed to the system a breaker from the panels to my charge controler, more so as a means as a disconnect as the amperage is super high and i still have the inline fuses on the roof. there is space for another breaker, i most likely will use that space for whats needed before the victron. how many amps should that be? also could you suggest a breaker inline on the ac side? obviously there are 2 legs, so ill need to get two. and lastly wire guage for all this? i seem to keep getting different answers on that. Thanks again

 

[sunshine_eggo]

i dont know how to break the convo up and answer how you did HAHA so bare with me. what is better victronconnect or the veconfigure3?

You just place your cursor at the end of the line and press enter.

VictronConnect is easiest. If you want to get into advanced stuff, VEConfigure3 is needed.

i am team android no no worries with iphone crap lol

Android VictronConnect with the MP is only good for use with MK3-USB C adapter.

There is a VE.Bus smart dongle that allows you to access the inverter from VictronConnect/bluetooth/android, BUT that an expensive MONITORING ONLY option. You won't be able to make any configuration changes.

im sure ill ask about the custom configuration once installed

Key items will be low voltage disconnect and managing your AC input power for when you're connected to shore.

i have the renogy battery monitor with shunt so that wont be replaced untill i upgrade the rest of the system (yes want a victron charge controler and thats when ill upgrade the monitor)

Good deal.

i installed to the system a breaker from the panels to my charge controler, more so as a means as a disconnect as the amperage is super high and i still have the inline fuses on the roof. there is space for another breaker, i most likely will use that space for whats needed before the victron. how many amps should that be?

Consult the manual. They have wire and fuse size recommendations.

also could you suggest a breaker inline on the ac side?

Yes. Each wire needs protection.

obviously there are 2 legs, so ill need to get two.

Are you getting the MP-II 12/3000 2x120V unit for your RV 50A power?

and lastly wire guage for all this? i seem to keep getting different answers on that. Thanks again

Start with the manual.

 

[contractor_chris]

You just place your cursor at the end of the line and press enter.

VictronConnect is easiest. If you want to get into advanced stuff, VEConfigure3 is needed.



Android VictronConnect with the MP is only good for use with MK3-USB C adapter.

There is a VE.Bus smart dongle that allows you to access the inverter from VictronConnect/bluetooth/android, BUT that an expensive MONITORING ONLY option. You won't be able to make any configuration changes.



Key items will be low voltage disconnect and managing your AC input power for when you're connected to shore.



Good deal.



Consult the manual. They have wire and fuse size recommendations.



Yes. Each wire needs protection.



Are you getting the MP-II 12/3000 2x120V unit for your RV 50A power?

yes i plan to. I thought i found a sweet deal for a new one locally for 650 bucks but its only a 1x120. founds a 2x120 locally for 1k but have found em cheaper online with free shipping. im not really trying to figure out what is on what leg in the electrical panel and all that jaz. thats also how they did the factory solar plus in my model rv with a 3000w renogy inverter and everyone complains about it. also if i ever decided to get crazy and add a good bit more, then it wont allow a/c function (again have generator though)

Start with the manual.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

yes i plan to. I thought i found a sweet deal for a new one locally for 650 bucks but its only a 1x120. founds a 2x120 locally for 1k but have found em cheaper online with free shipping. im not really trying to figure out what is on what leg in the electrical panel and all that jaz. thats also how they did the factory solar plus in my model rv with a 3000w renogy inverter and everyone complains about it. also if i ever decided to get crazy and add a good bit more, then it wont allow a/c function (again have generator though)

Are you familiar with how a 2x120 works? They're still only 120V inverters, but they intelligently handle switching between single and split phase shore.

Boondocking: Provides inverter 120VAC power to both legs of AC panel (0V between).
15/30A shore: Passes through 120VAC to both legs of AC panel (0V between) and can charge from shore. Can also boost input AC if it's weak with PowerAssist.
50A shore: Passes through 120VAC to both legs of AC panel (240V between) and can charge from L1 only. Can also boost L1 only.

They're good units, but they're purpose built, and it's important to understand what you're getting.

 

[contractor_chris]

Are you familiar with how a 2x120 works? They're still only 120V inverters, but they intelligently handle switching between single and split phase shore.

Boondocking: Provides inverter 120VAC power to both legs of AC panel (0V between).
15/30A shore: Passes through 120VAC to both legs of AC panel (0V between) and can charge from shore. Can also boost input AC if it's weak with PowerAssist.
50A shore: Passes through 120VAC to both legs of AC panel (240V between) and can charge from L1 only. Can also boost L1 only.

They're good units, but they're purpose built, and it's important to understand what you're getting.

im not sure i follow honestly. but the 2x120 i believe would be the purpose built for my 5th wheel rv (50a). seems like its a very indepth type thing, and for a hobby or career aspect would be awesome to learn it all and play with it. but the funds are just not there, and neither is the time to learn it in depth currently. That honestly why i just want the inverter and changing nothing else. i dont have the means to learn it all, and just want a direct, this goes to this goes to this goes to that and be done.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

im not sure i follow honestly.

If there's something I can clarify, please ask.

but the 2x120 i believe would be the purpose built for my 5th wheel rv (50a). seems like its a very indepth type thing, and for a hobby or career aspect would be awesome to learn it all and play with it. but the funds are just not there, and neither is the time to learn it in depth currently. That honestly why i just want the inverter and changing nothing else. i dont have the means to learn it all, and just want a direct, this goes to this goes to this goes to that and be done.

They're a good product, and if you switch back and forth between 15/30 and 50A shore regularly, it's a great solution.

Just understand that it's a specialty 3000W/12V inverter that only provides 120VAC output. Some get confused and think these are split phase inverters. When boondocking, the whole trailer will be powered, but you will be limited to 3000W of power from the inverter (plus surges).

 

[contractor_chris]

If there's something I can clarify, please ask.

i appreciate it.

They're a good product, and if you switch back and forth between 15/30 and 50A shore regularly, it's a great solution.

i dont, at least often. 95% of the time camping i make sure we get a 50a hook up. If there is no hook up we use the generator (when it works that is, gotta love cummins)

Just understand that it's a specialty 3000W/12V inverter that only provides 120VAC output. Some get confused and think these are split phase inverters. When boondocking, the whole trailer will be powered, but you will be limited to 3000W of power from the inverter (plus surges).

correct, but thats what a 50a shore plug is also. its just two lines of 120vac. but this is where im confused. nothing with an rv is 240v i only need 120v i just want it to power everything in my camper. (unlike the 1x120v model thats cheaper only have the camper would work from my understanding. aka if i on the very rare chance dont use the generator and tried to run the ac it would function (for a extremely short time). or i dont have to poke around and figure out what outlets are getting power and what outlets are not.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

correct, but thats what a 50a shore plug is also. its just two lines of 120vac.

Two separate lines center tapped from a 240V transformer, so the two hot legs are 240V apart, but 120V to neutral.

but this is where im confused. nothing with an rv is 240v i only need 120v i just want it to power everything in my camper.

This is done to allow more juice. A 50A RV supplied by 1 50A 120V line means you could only use 6000W. 2 A/C, a water heater and a microwave, and you're tapped out.

When you provide two 120V legs in split phase, you double the available power to 12000W because the Neutral conductor only carries the imbalance between the two legs, i.e., if you are using 30A on L1 and 20A on L2, the Neutral is only carrying the imbalance of 10A.

If you tried to use 50A on both legs, that would put 100A on the neutral and likely result in a fire.

(unlike the 1x120v model thats cheaper only have the camper would work from my understanding. aka if i on the very rare chance dont use the generator and tried to run the ac it would function (for a extremely short time). or i dont have to poke around and figure out what outlets are getting power and what outlets are not.

When you plug into 30A shore, it shorts L2 to L1, so you get 120V to both "halves" of the camper, but you are then limited by the Neutral conductor of 50A. Since 30A shore only provides 30A, the shore breaker will trip before you can exceed the wire's rating.

You would do the same on the non 2x120 multiplus - short L1 to L2 to provide 3kVA to both halves of camper.

The 2x120 is a more convenient solution for you.

This 12 minute video might be useful for you:

 

[contractor_chris]

Two separate lines center tapped from a 240V transformer, so the two hot legs are 240V apart, but 120V to neutral.



This is done to allow more juice. A 50A RV supplied by 1 50A 120V line means you could only use 6000W. 2 A/C, a water heater and a microwave, and you're tapped out.

When you provide two 120V legs in split phase, you double the available power to 12000W because the Neutral conductor only carries the imbalance between the two legs, i.e., if you are using 30A on L1 and 20A on L2, the Neutral is only carrying the imbalance of 10A.

If you tried to use 50A on both legs, that would put 100A on the neutral and likely result in a fire.



When you plug into 30A shore, it shorts L2 to L1, so you get 120V to both "halves" of the camper, but you are then limited by the Neutral conductor of 50A. Since 30A shore only provides 30A, the shore breaker will trip before you can exceed the wire's rating.

You would do the same on the non 2x120 multiplus - short L1 to L2 to provide 3kVA to both halves of camper.

The 2x120 is a more convenient solution for you.

This 12 minute video might be useful for you:

Thank you for the explination! starting to make sense now. i will watch the video shortly once i send a few more emails out. Every time i ask that question in the past i just get the answer "the 12/3000/ 2x120 is made for our style rvs just order that" with no real answer hah

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thank you for the explination! starting to make sense now. i will watch the video shortly once i send a few more emails out. Every time i ask that question in the past i just get the answer "the 12/3000/ 2x120 is made for our style rvs just order that" with no real answer hah

AFTER watching the video, you might want to check this out...

This asshole made a post about the 2x120 when it came out and included some of the materials Victron presented in their live webcast:

New Victron Multiplus-II 12/3000/120-50 designed specifically for RVs with 30A/50A input flexibility available MARCH 2021

Just heard from a friend. Victron just had an educational session, and introduced the subject product. Key features: 12V inverter/charger (120A charging) Will accept 30A or 50A input and adjust accordingly. 30A input or in inverter-only mode will provide 120VAC to each leg. Power Assist...

diysolarforum.com

 

[contractor_chris]

AFTER watching the video, you might want to check this out...

watched the video, everything it explained i already understand well. What confuses me i guess is the whole function of the inverter itself. Also why people argue so often about the power from a 50a receptacle. If i take my meter and put it on the two legs of a shower power 50a im going to get 240v. now i know nothing inside the rv uses that, so i guess it answers my confusion. the inverter wont register 240v across both legs in the 2x120 model. it probably wont show anything across both legs i assume? and will only show 120 with a probe on L1 and N or L2 & N?

This asshole made a post about the 2x120 when it came out and included some of the materials Victron presented in their live webcast:

New Victron Multiplus-II 12/3000/120-50 designed specifically for RVs with 30A/50A input flexibility available MARCH 2021

Just heard from a friend. Victron just had an educational session, and introduced the subject product. Key features: 12V inverter/charger (120A charging) Will accept 30A or 50A input and adjust accordingly. 30A input or in inverter-only mode will provide 120VAC to each leg. Power Assist...

diysolarforum.com

haha good to know if i type profanity here i wont get canned (i hadnt joined a forum in many many years and did 4 months ago and immediatly was messaged i was walking a thin line from being removed for using profanity)

those info sheets from victron are useful, but bring more questions. there are more features of the unit i was not aware about. mainly going between 30a shore and 50a shore, does a setting need changed in the victron? or will it sense it, and do whats needed on its own?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

watched the video, everything it explained i already understand well. What confuses me i guess is the whole function of the inverter itself. Also why people argue so often about the power from a 50a receptacle. If i take my meter and put it on the two legs of a shower power 50a im going to get 240v. now i know nothing inside the rv uses that, so i guess it answers my confusion.

A 50A RV panel is basically identical to a split phase residential panel but without any 240V items.

the inverter wont register 240v across both legs in the 2x120 model. it probably wont show anything across both legs i assume? and will only show 120 with a probe on L1 and N or L2 & N?

On 15/30A 120V shore or inverting:
L1-L2 = 0V
L1-N = 120V
L2-N = 120V

On 50A shore:
L1-L2 = 240V
L1-N = 120V
L1-N = 120V

haha good to know if i type profanity here i wont get canned (i hadnt joined a forum in many many years and did 4 months ago and immediatly was messaged i was walking a thin line from being removed for using profanity)

I can call that guy an asshole because that's my old username...

Excessive profanity is certainly not encouraged, but a well placed swear for emphasis doesn't seem to offend.

those info sheets from victron are useful, but bring more questions. there are more features of the unit i was not aware about. mainly going between 30a shore and 50a shore, does a setting need changed in the victron? or will it sense it, and do whats needed on its own?

That's the whole point of this unit. It handles single phase or split phase shore connections automatically:

On single phase or inverting, it internally joins L1 to L2 to pass through shore L to both Legs.
On split phase, it passes through L1 and L2 to the panel as if it wasn't there - except it can charge from the 50A available on L1.

 

[Partimewages]

Can you put those in parallel for 6000 VA? You know asking for a friend who wants more power!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yep

 

[contractor_chris]

So another question. Someone else with the same rv as me sent me a pm on fb lending info from a post I made in the fb group. He added the victron also (a lot of guys have or completely ditched the renogy system for victron). Said I NEEDED the inverter controler also. Said there were two. Just a switch and then a switch and knob. Is it really needed? Also are there options for something with an actual screen or phone connectivity? Polar opposites for me, I'm either at the frugal end and don't want to spend any more than needed, or a buy once cry once and get the best option for the long run. I dont want to upgrade and upgrade.

Attached is what he said is needed and using.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If you have a need to change the AC input current, and you're not hooking up a Cerbo or other GX device, you may want it.

If you want the same control the panel offers via smartphone, a VE.Bus Smart Dongle will allow VictronConnect via bluetooth, and you can turn it on/off/charger only and change the AC input current limit. No other configuration changes are allowed.

The MK3-USB adapter will allow a PC/Mac running VictronConnect full control of the inverter, but it's a physical USB connection.

 

[contractor_chris]

If you have a need to change the AC input current, and you're not hooking up a Cerbo or other GX device, you may want it.

If you want the same control the panel offers via smartphone, a VE.Bus Smart Dongle will allow VictronConnect via bluetooth, and you can turn it on/off/charger only and change the AC input current limit. No other configuration changes are allowed.

The MK3-USB adapter will allow a PC/Mac running VictronConnect full control of the inverter, but it's a physical USB connection.

What is the purpose of changing the ac input current? Or when and why is it needed?

I just figured it made sense to turn the inverter on and off. Like when it's parked in my driveway at home, no reason to have It pushing power to everything discharging batteries for nothing. Then again I just leave it set and let the dc power w.e it wants (ie fridge) and nothing else makes a draw so really doesn't discharge any but at night a little.

 

[Brucey]

What is the purpose of changing the ac input current? Or when and why is it needed?

I just figured it made sense to turn the inverter on and off. Like when it's parked in my driveway at home, no reason to have It pushing power to everything discharging batteries for nothing. Then again I just leave it set and let the dc power w.e it wants (ie fridge) and nothing else makes a draw so really doesn't discharge any but at night a little.

It's so you can turn the input down to say 10-13A on a 15A 120V circuit, to avoid nuisance tripping a breaker. By default out of the box it's going to pull as much input as it's rated for.

 

[contractor_chris]

It's so you can turn the input down to say 10-13A on a 15A 120V circuit, to avoid nuisance tripping a breaker. By default out of the box it's going to pull as much input as it's rated for.

gottcha, doesnt seem very useful for my application. so i guess the question is without it, the inverter will always be on? is that bad or an issue? it can be installed without it right? or should i be looking at the cerbo gx? and the touch 50 screen to go with it?

 

[Brucey]

gottcha, doesnt seem very useful for my application. so i guess the question is without it, the inverter will always be on? is that bad or an issue? it can be installed without it right? or should i be looking at the cerbo gx? and the touch 50 screen to go with it?

You can turn the inverter section off and just have it charge from grid/generator, or off altogether.

 

[Brucey]

Basic functionality in terms of operating mode (off, charge only, invert) etc can be achieved using the Bluetooth to ve.bus dongle and victronconnect afaik. So you don't need a Cerbo GX etc. If you do get one, you can use your phone as a display for the GX as needed.