I currently have a Quattro 48/5000 inverter which has 120V AC output only for in main residence. I now am in a situation where I need 240V 10,000 watt output for motors that would go to a separate outbuilding. My initial thought was to add the Quattro 230/240 VAC 10kW inverter/charger. Would I be able to combine both of these in the same system (same battery bank, same Victron bus) and have only the 240V Quattro feeding the outbuilding? Or would there be a better option?
Adding 240V from Victron system?
- Thread starter rhino
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Will you need 120VAC power AT ALL in the separate building? If so, that won't work. The 230/240VAC units are single phase only, not split phase. If any of your 240VAC devices require a connection to Neutral, this won't work. You won't have a neutral.
Adding a second 48/5000 in parallel with the existing unit can be configured to output 120/240VAC split phase.
Adding a second 48/5000 in parallel with the existing unit can be configured to output 120/240VAC split phase.
Thanks for the info!
Looks like they expect you to use their Autotransformer to get 2 hot legs but then the neutral is limited to only 32A so I am limited to basically max 30A of 240V with this config?
From the manual I see:
It is also possible to create more AC phases (split-phase or 3-phase) with 2 or 3 Quattros. In this case the Quattro in Phase L1 is called the Leader. The Quattro in phase L2 (and L3 if available) will generate the same AC frequency but will follow L1 with a fixed phase shift. These Quattros are called followers.
Is there a disadvantage to that config? Do you know if I have to add the same exact Quattro or can I add a 48/10000 so that the 120V circuits don't limit one of the legs.
Oh.. I assumed the 230V/240V Victron unit had two 120V hot legs.
Looks like they expect you to use their Autotransformer to get 2 hot legs but then the neutral is limited to only 32A so I am limited to basically max 30A of 240V with this config?
So I could power both 120V and 240V circuits with that config.
From the manual I see:
It is also possible to create more AC phases (split-phase or 3-phase) with 2 or 3 Quattros. In this case the Quattro in Phase L1 is called the Leader. The Quattro in phase L2 (and L3 if available) will generate the same AC frequency but will follow L1 with a fixed phase shift. These Quattros are called followers.
Is there a disadvantage to that config? Do you know if I have to add the same exact Quattro or can I add a 48/10000 so that the 120V circuits don't limit one of the legs.
That's one of the big complaints about the Victron line - they have no native support for 120/240VAC split phase. The most common solution is to buy the 230VAC units, order them as 60Hz and 240V and use an autotransformer as you describe to get 120/240VAC split phase.
You are not limited to 30A of 240V. They have a 100A unit as well. The 32A limit is only on the Neutral. For a 240VAC device, neutral is generally just there to allow for imbalance between the legs, and there is little to no current flowing on the N for 240VAC items, so it could pass 100A of 240VAC. You would just be limited to 32A on a single leg. If you're using items on the other leg, that eases from the 32A limit, i.e., 20A on L1 and 30A on L2 means N is only flowing 10A.
I have that Quattro, and a second that I will eventually configure exactly as I described (parallel, 240VAC split phase). Each leg is limited to the power of the inverter driving that leg, i.e., 5000W per leg and 10000W across both legs.
10kW is a big add to your existing system. Is this going to be for high surge, but low consumption devices, or will you need sustained high power drains?
You are not limited to 30A of 240V. They have a 100A unit as well. The 32A limit is only on the Neutral. For a 240VAC device, neutral is generally just there to allow for imbalance between the legs, and there is little to no current flowing on the N for 240VAC items, so it could pass 100A of 240VAC. You would just be limited to 32A on a single leg. If you're using items on the other leg, that eases from the 32A limit, i.e., 20A on L1 and 30A on L2 means N is only flowing 10A.
I have that Quattro, and a second that I will eventually configure exactly as I described (parallel, 240VAC split phase). Each leg is limited to the power of the inverter driving that leg, i.e., 5000W per leg and 10000W across both legs.
10kW is a big add to your existing system. Is this going to be for high surge, but low consumption devices, or will you need sustained high power drains?
The inverters need to be exactly the same. The firmware and chips need to be the same too (something to research before buying).
Also, you could put in the split-phase inverters, then feed those into an Autotransformer. The Autoformer can then correct up to 32A of imbalance on the two legs.
Also, you could put in the split-phase inverters, then feed those into an Autotransformer. The Autoformer can then correct up to 32A of imbalance on the two legs.
Thanks for clarifying about the neutral and autotransformer fixing the "imbalance" of the two legs.. That makes more sense..
I wasn't clear what my best option is then at this point. Get the 2nd Quattro 5000/48V along with the 100A Autotransformer? This would be for some wood working equipment so 3HP 240V motors. Would limit it to no more than two 3HP motors on at a time (dust collection and the tool itself).
I wasn't clear what my best option is then at this point. Get the 2nd Quattro 5000/48V along with the 100A Autotransformer? This would be for some wood working equipment so 3HP 240V motors. Would limit it to no more than two 3HP motors on at a time (dust collection and the tool itself).
3hp is typically only about 2500W sustained, so 5kW is probably enough for continuous use provided you have monster surge.
The 48/5K + autotransformer would give you the most flexibility, but if you're using mostly 240VAC devices, you don't need the autotransformer.
Also, while I may be Victron's "B", I always look for cheap solutions. In your situation, I would consider one of these:
A Sigineer unit (same as AIMS) with mega-surge capability and cheap. It's not as efficient, but it has a low consumption mode for when things aren't in use, or you can keep it off and just power it on when you head out to the shop. Monster surge (almost as much as the two Quattros together) and native 120/240VAC support.
The 48/5K + autotransformer would give you the most flexibility, but if you're using mostly 240VAC devices, you don't need the autotransformer.
Also, while I may be Victron's "B", I always look for cheap solutions. In your situation, I would consider one of these:
A Sigineer unit (same as AIMS) with mega-surge capability and cheap. It's not as efficient, but it has a low consumption mode for when things aren't in use, or you can keep it off and just power it on when you head out to the shop. Monster surge (almost as much as the two Quattros together) and native 120/240VAC support.
I originally wasn't expecting to need 240V at all but most of my current loads are 120V for all the house loads and the 240V would be used only when using the wood working equipment.
Another Quattro + Autotransformer would be about $3000... an entire Sol-Ark 12K is $6900 which would nearly be paid for if I also sold the current Quattro.. Really annoying Victron hasn't addressed this 120/240V requirement better. Really makes me question if I should go the Sol-Ark route now instead even though I love the monitoring/quality of the Victron equipment.
Another Quattro + Autotransformer would be about $3000... an entire Sol-Ark 12K is $6900 which would nearly be paid for if I also sold the current Quattro.. Really annoying Victron hasn't addressed this 120/240V requirement better. Really makes me question if I should go the Sol-Ark route now instead even though I love the monitoring/quality of the Victron equipment.
It's a matter of perspective. They are a European company focused on that market as well as Marine. Few of which need 120/240VAC split phase, and they do have the option for 20/240V split phase in parallel.
Again, I don't think you need the autotransformer. Just the second Quattro and reconfiguring for parallel split phase operation.
Or another 6kW w/18kW of surge at 120/240V split phase for about $1K...
Again, I don't think you need the autotransformer. Just the second Quattro and reconfiguring for parallel split phase operation.
Or another 6kW w/18kW of surge at 120/240V split phase for about $1K...
Sigineer is a quality brand. They make AIMS. My neighbor has that unit in 24V he's purchased to drive his deep well Grundfos pump. Pump has a 60A surge and 12A run current. It's been tested to 2000W to confirm function, but integrating it into the system inspired a complete re-do of his 25 year old off-grid system with multiple upgrades, and it's taking a long time to get it deployed.
Just wanted to verify the one you linked to: Affordable Electric Vehicle Batteries & Components from Electric Car Parts Company says it is made by APC. That is the same as AIMS/Sigineer?
Guess so. Seems to look exactly like the one listed on Sigineer's site https://www.sigineer.com/product/dc-ac-inverter-charger-home-sump-pump-backup-6000-watt-48v-230v/
https://www.sigineer.com/product/dc-ac-inverter-charger-home-sump-pump-backup-6000-watt-48v-230v/That's not the same unit I recommended. It's an AiO.
Did you notice the battery voltage? He had a huge voltage drop.
Surge is finicky. Multiple requirements have to be met. Overload can be induced by massive input voltage drop that doesn't trip LVD.
I would not conclude this is an inverter surge failure without documentation of the battery/cabling specs and measurements to confirm proper connections and wiring resistance as well as the LRA rating of the motor in question.
Did you notice the battery voltage? He had a huge voltage drop.
Surge is finicky. Multiple requirements have to be met. Overload can be induced by massive input voltage drop that doesn't trip LVD.
I would not conclude this is an inverter surge failure without documentation of the battery/cabling specs and measurements to confirm proper connections and wiring resistance as well as the LRA rating of the motor in question.
That hybrid unit is notably larger and has an MPPT built in, but weighs almost exactly the same. The logical conclusion is that they downsized the inverter transformer a bit, and the unit ultimately has less surge than the inverter/charger.
Most importantly is that video provides no meaningful information for or against a solution - too many unknowns.
Call Carl at ECPC, give him the LRA specs of your highest surge device and ask him if it will work. If so, ask if he'll accept a return if it doesn't.
You could always go with the second Quattro configured for 120/240VAC split phase. Between the two units, they basically have a 20kW surge for something like 20 seconds.
Most importantly is that video provides no meaningful information for or against a solution - too many unknowns.
Call Carl at ECPC, give him the LRA specs of your highest surge device and ask him if it will work. If so, ask if he'll accept a return if it doesn't.
You could always go with the second Quattro configured for 120/240VAC split phase. Between the two units, they basically have a 20kW surge for something like 20 seconds.
Does configuring the 2nd Quattro for parallel split phase operation mean I only have about 4000W continous per leg? if I have about 1000W on one leg would that limit the total to 3000W + 3000W continuous at that time? or is there some balancing between legs happening?
You have 4000W continuous, 5000W 30 minutes and 10000W for 20 seconds, per leg.
No balancing between legs.
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