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Adding new LiFePo4 batteries to existing system. Not same brand. Originals are 1 yr old with about 100 cycles.

WildernessRV

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Sep 10, 2024
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WYOMING
The two original batteries are wired to a bus bar in parallel. These two batteries have a 200amp bms with Bluetooth. The two new ones have a 200amp bms with no Bluetooth. I wired each of the new batteries in parallel to one of the old ones, as I have an external switch to each battery. I thought this would allow me to disconnect each “side” if a problem occurred. I have only had it hooked up for 1 day so far. Is there a better way to do this, and should I get a shunt for the new batteries.
 
The two original batteries are wired to a bus bar in parallel. These two batteries have a 200amp bms with Bluetooth. The two new ones have a 200amp bms with no Bluetooth. I wired each of the new batteries in parallel to one of the old ones, as I have an external switch to each battery. I thought this would allow me to disconnect each “side” if a problem occurred. I have only had it hooked up for 1 day so far. Is there a better way to do this, and should I get a shunt for the new batteries.

Different age and capacity in parallel is generally a non-concern provided they are connected with best practices (link #6 in my sig).

A new shunt is only needed if you want to know now much each battery is delivering. If there is a single shunt through which all current passes, it should work for the whole bank.
 
There is no shunt currently, as I have relied solely on bms of original system. All of The batteries seem to be at same charge, but it seems I am draining batteries at same rate, about 20-25% overnight. When I awoke this morning I was expecting to see around 10-12% drain, but instead saw the same 25% drain on bms of original batteries. Does the bms calculate how much is in original battery based on how many watts have been expended, or how much is in storage. My thinking wiring in this way would be able to use the bluetooth(original) to monitor both batteries instead of installing a shunt. If I leave it how it is currently should I not believe the Bluetooth bms, and just assume I have half the amp hr deficitimage.jpg
 
There is no shunt currently, as I have relied solely on bms of original system. All of The batteries seem to be at same charge, but it seems I am draining batteries at same rate, about 20-25% overnight.

Your batteries are not connected consistent with best practices. You have different resistances between loads/chargers and each battery. Each black battery is basically a backup to the original battery. Please consult the resource I mentioned above - link #6 in my signature.

It looks like your main connections are still on the original batteries. This puts a strong bias towards those batteries for both discharging and charging.

When I awoke this morning I was expecting to see around 10-12% drain, but instead saw the same 25% drain on bms of original batteries. Does the bms calculate how much is in original battery based on how many watts have been expended, or how much is in storage.

The BMS counts exactly what flows through it and calculates based on its capacity. It knows nothing of what is connected externally. It knows the programmed capacity, the voltage and the net amount of how much current has flowed in and out of the battery.

My thinking wiring in this way would be able to use the bluetooth(original) to monitor both batteries instead of installing a shunt. If I leave it how it is currently should I not believe the Bluetooth bms, and just assume I have half the amp hr deficit

What will eventually happen is as the original batteries empty, the new batteries will share more of the load.

The way you have wired it results in the opposite of your intent and demands the use of a shunt.

The total wire length from each battery terminal to the loads/chargers needs to be the same. The wire length to the new batteries is notably longer than those of the original. Again, please see link #6.
 
Different age and capacity in parallel is generally a non-concern provided they are connected with best practices (link #6 in my sig).

A new shunt is only needed if you want to know now much each battery is delivering. If there is a single shunt through which all current passes, it should work for the whole bank.
Good morning,

I'm looking to do something similar and figured I should post here before creating a new thread. I'm using LiFePO4 batteries.

I read link #6 and went down the rabbit hole of information, it was awesome.

If I understood the issue of expanding a battery bank with newer batteries correctly: the issue is the older batteries will likely have higher internal resistance and less capacity than the newer batteries.

Best practices to expand the banks:
- obviously ensure same voltage batteries and preferably from the same manufacturuer, model, etc.

- do not wire in series first, then parallel, e.g. 3S2P: here the same current flows through each battery in a series connected sub-bank. When discharging, the older battery's voltage will drop faster and the voltage of the whole sub-bank drops below a useful level, before the newer battery is fully discharged; the newer battery cannot 'assist' the older battery as in a series connection. When charging, the voltage of the older battery may rise faster than the newer battery and will at the least cause the charge cut-off to occur before the newer battery is full charged, and at the worst go into over-voltage damage (though the BMS should protect the battery). Again to compare to a parallel connection when charging, the newer battery will continue to absorb current until the whole sub-bank arrives at the SOC cut-off. In essence when connected in series, the sub-bank takes on the charaecteristics and limitations of the weaker battery and the weaker battery risks being damaged even further.

- wire in parallel first, then series. e.g. 3PS2, put one old battery in each sub-bank: The benefits when discharging current is that the newer batteries will 'do more work' and provide more current and help out the older battery. Benefits when charging is the newer battery will absorb more current as the whole parallel bank's internal resistance rises as they achieve full charge. In essence, it prevents imbalances with mixed age batteries.

-
wiring: this one seems to be the simplest to understand for me personally if one understands 'Ohm's law i.e. not suggestion'.
* Basically ensure sufficient wire gauge for the current that'll flow between each connection;
* ensure wire gauges are the same; ensure length of current travel remains the same;
* use best practices when connecting to ensure current draw is as even as possible from multiple parallel connected batteries, there's alot of info in your link #6.

Have I got it down pretty well? I'm particularly interested if my understanding of connecting parallel first then series for mixed age batteries is correct, and that I am not missing something.

Thanks and have a great day!
 

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