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diy solar

Adding Schneider XW Pro

The inverter and charge controller don't need to communicate to function. Both can work by just simple bus/battery voltage.
Communication between the two may give some benefits, but it would be functional with both programmed to function based on battery voltage.

For a relay based BMS:
 
The inverter and charge controller don't need to communicate to function. Both can work by just simple bus/battery voltage.
Communication between the two may give some benefits, but it would be functional with both programmed to function based on battery voltage.
For RSD to work properly do you need communication?
 
Just communication of a keep-alive signal to RSD boxes on PV panels. Nothing among BMS, charge controller, inverter.
That is typically powerline communication, an AC signal (edit: superimposed on PV wires). GT inverters typically incorporate it, and add-on boxes can otherwise provide it. Looks like they do offer additional monitoring products.

 
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For RSD to work properly do you need communication?
No, like Hedges says, you do not need comms between any other components.

You need the RSD transmitter to be powered up (typically that runs on 24vdc via an optional 120vac-24vdc converted) and the RSD transmitter talks over the solar DC wiring to the panel mounted shut down boxes.
 
Can you link a video of someone running a load on a Growatt, off grid, without a battery? With enough solar and a bunch of capacitors, it might work, but it won't be stable. Enphase says their iQ8 inverters can do it, but it also has "load controllers" to disconnect things that it can't run.

My solution is having 3 completely independent batteries. Any one of them can run my system pretty well. If I lose a BMS or a cell, I will only lose one of the banks. They are on separate fuses, cutoff switches, and BMS's.

Mpp Solar though, not growatt
 
None of the equipment needs to communicate at all to work.

Any charge controller will just push as much current as it can from the solar power coming in, up until the battery voltage reaches the absorb limit, then it will drop to constant voltage mode. Some charge controllers will also be able to switch to a lower float voltage. But once it is configured for the batteries, it should just do it's thing trying to keep the batteries charged.

The inverter just needs to take the battery voltage in an convert it to the desired AC line voltage. Again, no need to communicate once it has been configured.

The BMS just monitors the battery cells and will shut off charging or discharging if any cell goes too high or too low. This is the only semi dangerous one as the loss of load while charging can cause a voltage spike. The charging source should be se to stop charging far enough below the BMS cut off for the BMS to only activate if something is seriously wrong. Think of it like a fuse blowing from a serious overload.

Rapid shut down and even arc fault protection is another add on. In most areas, they are only required if the DC wiring is over a living space. On a shed or ground mount it is not required. As others have said, the cut off boxes at each solar panel are turned on when they detect the "keep alive" signal which is being sent back up the DC wiring. If this signal is lost for any reason, the switches open to shut off the voltage from the solar panels. A wire break, a manual switch, or an arc noise detector can all shut off the keep alive signal and cause the shut off boxes to turn off the panels.

No data is required for any of this to work. All of the devices could be from different manufacturers, and it will still make power. The electrons don't care if they were coming from a Midnight Solar charge controller and being inverter by an Outback inverter. Where this does cause a small issue is when monitoring the system. If you use all Enphase, or All Schneider, or All Outback, then a single monitoring program will show you everything that is going on. In my system, I need to look at two different monitoring portals. I look at Enphase for my solar production, and then Schneider for my battery inverter operation. In fact, I also have a third program if I want to see what my PLC is doing to adjust the Schneider inverter/charger operation. I can see those changes after they happen in the Schneider software, but I can't see what caused the adjustment to happen. For example, when I am running off of the batteries in the evening, I will see the inverter output power go from just 800 watts up to 4,000 watts. If this was a normal off grid system, that would just mean a large load turned on at the output, but sine I am grid tied, it is a bit more complex than that. When a load turns on back in my main grid panel, the inverter is not aware of it. The PLC measures the load in the main panel, and commands the inverter to export power to the grid input to cover the load so I don't buy the power from the grid.

The charge controllers do not need to know that rapid shut down even exists. If anything causes the RSD boxes to shut off, the charge controller would just stop producing power, the same as if a huge dense cloud just blocked the sun from hitting the panels. If the fault clears an the panels are turned back on, then it is like the cloud cleared and the charge controller will go back to charging from the available power. The only tie between the charge controller and the RSD is that some charge controllers do have the keep alive transmitter installed in them. And some newer ones even have the built in arc fault sensing. This is a good thing as it eliminates another box in the system. If this is the case, then the charge controller should also have terminals to wire in a remote RSD shut off switch.

Another extra box that can be added to a Schneider system is the battery monitor. If you have multiple inverters and/or charge controllers, it is a good idea to have one. It is not required, as all the devices will work on voltage alone, but, when there is a battery monitor, it can measure the complete current going in or out of the battery bank. That allows it to more accurately calculate the battery state of charge. This can become important on a system with an LFP battery bank. Since the voltage changes so little with state of charge, it might not know if the batteries charged at all from 40% to 80%. Functions like grid support and grid sell can be programmed to stop if the battery is too low. But doing that from just voltage might not work very well on LFP cells. I have my system stop running off battery when my grid is up and the cells fall to 45% or so. That give me enough energy to make it through a night if the grid goes down after dark. Without the battery monitor, it might keep running until a cell hits the bottom knee voltage. That would be way too low.

Running completely off grid is actually easier as you know for sure all of the loads are on the output side of the inverter, and there is no grid sell. Even AC coupled, the Schneider works perfectly while off grid, without needing any intervention from the PLC. It is obvious the software was originally written for off grid use as it just plain works.
 
I do know that there are separate settings for "Grid Support" vs "Generator Support". And the XW-Pro is specifically designed and programmed so that it can't export power to the AC2 input as most generators can't handle back fed current. So check your settings under generator support. It will only start to pull DC and invert it when the generator is asked to supply more than the support limit. It can't support down to zero as that would completely unload the generator and have a chance of causing back feed. On my older 1.09 firmware, the Generator support slider does go down to 0 amps, but I seem to remember reading that it won't actually go below about 0.5 amps.
" It will only start to pull DC and invert it when the generator is asked to supply more than the support limit."

That doesn't work for me. When asked to provide more than the support amps. XW goes entirely onto batteries.
 
keepsake,

I never actually tested it from generator as mine was not running stable enough to stay locked, so it kept going to battery only. But from grid, I can tell it a grid support value, and it will add just what is needed to keep the draw from the grid below your setting. What firmware version are you running? I am still on 1.03 on my XW-Pro and 1.08 on my Gateway. I know they changed quite a few settings, and I am a little nervous about updating as it might change the Modbus commands I am using to control it.
 
I stopped at 1.11.00bn28 When I tried the next one it would no longer sell-to-grid. All this region setting stuff is total b---sh!t.
In the end, being in Florida, when the next hurricane hits, I will use an old 4548 to bring energy from my genset directly to the battery bank.
iow -- 4548 is path from genset to charge batteries, 6848 is path from battery bank to house loads.
 
I use ModBus extensively. Both 502 and 503. So powerful. Seems your mileage with anything stable is exactly the same as mine. Even talking to Eric Bentsen (one of S/E engineers) he says he knows of noone that has used the generator support feature.
 
In case any of you use the Insight box with S/E systems. I found a way within the browser to stop the log out when using local controls.
 
I use ModBus extensively. Both 502 and 503. So powerful. Seems your mileage with anything stable is exactly the same as mine.
Same, I had to roll back from 1.11.01 bn49 to 1.11.0bn28
Even talking to Eric Bentsen (one of S/E engineers) he says he knows of noone that has used the generator support feature.
Wow, it's such a useful feature if you're running a generator. I'm amazed no one is using it!
 
I cant find the tool I use on the Insight right now, tomorrow. It extends the timeout on the page to a week rather than 5 minutes. I like to leave the page open and it logs out constantly.

"Wow, it's such a useful feature if you're running a generator. I'm amazed no one is using it!"

Does it work for you ? What are your settings ? What size genset have you ?
 
I cant find the tool I use on the Insight right now, tomorrow. It extends the timeout on the page to a week rather than 5 minutes. I like to leave the page open and it logs out constantly.
Ah, the web portal does log out constantly, but I'm only in there like once per week. I was running into issues with the gateway closing modbus ports if I didn't either constantly read it or get the timing just right when opening.
"Wow, it's such a useful feature if you're running a generator. I'm amazed no one is using it!"

Does it work for you ? What are your settings ? What size genset have you ?
No, I don't, sorry
Reading it, they designed the perfect generator usage, but it sounds like they failed the software again.

If anyone in the California Central Valley wants to loan a 240 vac generator, I'll try it out ?‍♂️

Tampermonkey
Thanks, I'll check it out
 
Ah, the web portal does log out constantly, but I'm only in there like once per week. I was running into issues with the gateway closing modbus ports if I didn't either constantly read it or get the timing just right when opening.

No, I don't, sorry
Reading it, they designed the perfect generator usage, but it sounds like they failed the software again.

If anyone in the California Central Valley wants to loan a 240 vac generator, I'll try it out ?‍♂️


Thanks, I'll check it out
I have modbus with the 2 year old gateway box -- never has stopped working on my lan.
Now I have at my sons, an Insight box -- wifi only -- always drops after a day. Have to do a power cycle to recover it.
 
On failed software. It was me that pushed them to fix the AC2 qualifying on generator last year. In fact you might have an old firmware version with the qualify issue still in place. It is beyond me that S/E, a company can make the xw4548 work perfectly, and then make the newer 6848 AND BREAK MANY FEATURES.
 
It looks like you hover over the persons name and use the "start conversation" button.
 
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