Adding Schneider XW Pro
- Thread starter 400bird
- Start date
I am writing here since my concern surrounds an S/E Insight box. Does anyone that reads this have issues with wifi connectivity and the S/E I nsight interface ? Have an xw6848 Pro with it. Seems to disconnect after a day or so and requires a three-minute power cycle to recover. Currently have the firmware at Version: v1.14 Build 488 [ 17 th Sept 2021] which I believe is the latest and greatest version.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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I don't use those devices, but the issue may be related to IP address assignments other internet connected devices have.
Checking what documents I find on Insight, not much details.
I had similar behavior with an iPhone connected to employer's guest WiFi connection. There were instructions to tell iPhone to keep a constant address, not get a new one each day. Prior to doing that step I had connectivity for just one day, afterwards it remained connected.
Individual devices all have their own instructions. GXMnow said he learned how to tell their router to use a fixed IP address and configure it for each device where that is needed.
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diysolarforum.com
Checking what documents I find on Insight, not much details.
I had similar behavior with an iPhone connected to employer's guest WiFi connection. There were instructions to tell iPhone to keep a constant address, not get a new one each day. Prior to doing that step I had connectivity for just one day, afterwards it remained connected.
Individual devices all have their own instructions. GXMnow said he learned how to tell their router to use a fixed IP address and configure it for each device where that is needed.
Insight
Insight energy management platform brings intuitive monitoring and control to homeowners, commercial site operators and solar installers.
solar.se.com
Adding storage to my Enphase system
My fear is that the power companies will not continue that practice and start paying you five cents and charging you 30 cents kw at night. If you enter into an agreement with the power company it would be wise to have an iron clad contract with them so they do not pull the rug out from you...
diysolarforum.com
Found recently that newer cell phones, even androids, will change their mac address when they make a different wifi connection. SUCH A PAIN IN THE ARSE. It like the newest, latest and greatest, are doing their best TO FORCE US ON THEIR CLOUD. I want no part of any cloud and want everything local. WEB LESS.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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My system is using the older Gateway, and I am still on older firmware, but hope to be updating it shortly.
I still have all of the devices on my network se to DHCP, but my router, and Asus AC1900, has a table where you can select the ip address it will issue to each MAC address. This way, I always know what ip it will give to the devices. So my Gateway stays at the same place. The only exception to this is my PLC. Using DHCP on that could be a problem, so it has a fixed ip address, set outside of the range that the router can assign. So it can't make an ip conflict.
I have had my Gateway lock up 3 times where it needed a reboot to function normally again, but that is over a full 2 year span. It is annoying when it happens, but it has not been enough to be a big concern yet. I do have the cloud access turned on, but I monitor it with the local direct access 98% of the time. But there have been a few times, I looked in on it remotely, and it is nice to be able to do that. And when I was having a configuration issue, it also allowed Schneider tech support to see what was going on. It has not done anything to make me turn off cloud access yet.
400bird
Solar Wizard
It's going to be 115 ish here today and was 105 yesterday. Even at 100f the current solar doesn't come close to covering loads to the end of PGE's peak rates.
So, I spent some time this weekend (and I had been mulling this on and off for a while) making a plan and looking at roof measurements. Staying with reasonable measurements, I can add 2 large 480 panels and still pass inspection.
Then Alt E emailed a discount code, plus they are close enough to drive and pick everything up.
So I pulled the trigger to add 1920 watts DC coupled to the XW.
For permitting and inspection I'll put two of the panels on the roof. I'll end up putting the other pair on a ground mount.
I went with the Midnight Classic 150, due to the excellent price and built in arc fault and ground fault detection.
Later, I've got some room to move around my current, AC coupled array, and add about 1000 watts to that.
So, I spent some time this weekend (and I had been mulling this on and off for a while) making a plan and looking at roof measurements. Staying with reasonable measurements, I can add 2 large 480 panels and still pass inspection.
Then Alt E emailed a discount code, plus they are close enough to drive and pick everything up.
So I pulled the trigger to add 1920 watts DC coupled to the XW.
For permitting and inspection I'll put two of the panels on the roof. I'll end up putting the other pair on a ground mount.
I went with the Midnight Classic 150, due to the excellent price and built in arc fault and ground fault detection.
Later, I've got some room to move around my current, AC coupled array, and add about 1000 watts to that.
400bird
Solar Wizard
GXMnow, thanks for the verification in your thread.
I don't really have pictures to share, but I was able to use Node Red to automate my OhmConnect events. It now automatically bumps the grid sell current up to 27 amps any time there is an event. This evening, with the high temps and Flex Alert emergency thing, right at 6:00, when the OhmConnect even started, the system automatically changed from 1 amp sell to 27 amp sell.
It's working great!
I don't really have pictures to share, but I was able to use Node Red to automate my OhmConnect events. It now automatically bumps the grid sell current up to 27 amps any time there is an event. This evening, with the high temps and Flex Alert emergency thing, right at 6:00, when the OhmConnect even started, the system automatically changed from 1 amp sell to 27 amp sell.
It's working great!
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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After hunting around, I think I came to the same conclusion as you...
As much as I don't want a 3rd monitoring software, the Midnight Solar Classic charge controller does seem to solve a lot of the issues. It is a bit more expensive than just the 140 volt Schneider charge controller, but once you factor in the arc fault protection, it becomes quite a bit cheaper.
I am trying to find complete wiring diagrams for setting up the Midnight Classic. To meet the RSD requirements, I assume it still needs something like the Tigo shut off box at each panel. The two manuals I have found online do not talk about RSD at all.
As much as I don't want a 3rd monitoring software, the Midnight Solar Classic charge controller does seem to solve a lot of the issues. It is a bit more expensive than just the 140 volt Schneider charge controller, but once you factor in the arc fault protection, it becomes quite a bit cheaper.
I am trying to find complete wiring diagrams for setting up the Midnight Classic. To meet the RSD requirements, I assume it still needs something like the Tigo shut off box at each panel. The two manuals I have found online do not talk about RSD at all.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I ordered the Tigo RSD and dual (2 panel) boxes to mount on the panels.
I don't think the Midnight has any way to interface with the Tigo RSD and that doesn't appear to be required. I screwed up and ordered parts before getting my permits approved, so I'm rushing to get my permit package together this weekend.
I believe midnight charge controllers include a dry contact relay. There might be settings to open the relay in case of an arc fault or ground fault. I haven't looked into this, but in theory it would work if:
I am remembering correctly and it is a dry contact.
And
If midnight has the option to connect the aux output to an arc fault or ground fault.
I don't think the Midnight has any way to interface with the Tigo RSD and that doesn't appear to be required. I screwed up and ordered parts before getting my permits approved, so I'm rushing to get my permit package together this weekend.
I believe midnight charge controllers include a dry contact relay. There might be settings to open the relay in case of an arc fault or ground fault. I haven't looked into this, but in theory it would work if:
I am remembering correctly and it is a dry contact.
And
If midnight has the option to connect the aux output to an arc fault or ground fault.
If I were to install RSD modules on my DC panels, it would be purely to protect firemen. That’s simple because you just power the heartbeat transmitter with grid power so that if the grid goes down or the main breaker trips, DC panels are disconnected.
If you want backup power, it’s a bit more complicated but not much. You need to power the heartbeat monitor from the UPS output but only through a disconnect switch accessible near the main breaker (for the firemen to disconnect if needed).
What is the failure more you are concerned about and thinking RSDs can protect against?
400bird
Solar Wizard
Passing inspection. Hence my comments about integrating arc fault and RSD not being required. I'm not sure that is correct, but unless I'm told otherwise I'll find out for the city next week.
Hope you don’t mind my horning into your thread to educate myself.
I assumed my SCC (Epever) and breakers provide all the protection I need against arc faults or ground faults - doesn’t your Midnight Solar SCC detect those fault conditions and enter not a fault mode that must be cleared before drawing power again?
I’d like to understand the fault condition your concerned about and the reasons your AGJ does not believe a Midnight Solar SCC does not provide required protection (in case my Epever SCC suffers from the same deficiency).
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Motivated by this discussion, I did a little googling and found this sobering article: https://www.acsolarwarehouse.com/news/solar-fires-dc-arc-faults-on-solar-systems/
From my quick perusal, this claims there are only 2 ways to protect against arc faults:
-low string voltage (<80VDC strings)
-use of Microinverters
They claim that even use of RSDs will not protect against all arc faults but it looks to me as though they are speaking about string-level RSDs rather than module-level RSDs.
My grid-tied array is Microinverter-based and my small DC-coupled array is 1S meaning <50VDC, so appears I’m OK.
But I’ve been mulling about eventually switching to high voltage swings and a high voltage battery, and this has certainly made me realize that not all DC voltages carry equivalent risk…
400bird
Solar Wizard
Highly unlikely. Arc fault detection is limited to very few (typically high end) charge controllers. More have ground fault detection, but it's not a common feature.
You should look it up if you are concerned. There are UL listings related to making the charge controller safe and able to pass inspection.
I doubt that EPever has either ground fault, arc fault, or RSD integrated.
There are two separate code requirements of concern here for roof mounted PV.
Remote shut down is about fireman safety. There needs to be a switch accessable to the fireman that will get the voltage down to a safe level real quick. This is not something the charge controller does. It can't stop voltage from existing on the roof and between/under the panels.
Arc fault detection. This detects arc, typically due to failed MC4 connections or wiring damage. Arcs cause fires. Series arcs happen when current flows, current flow can be stopped by the charge controller. Hence the built in arc fault detection.
I'm sure you are correct.
But here is the quote from that article I linked to:
'DC arc faults only occur on string inverter systems that have unprotected DC voltage circuits above approximately 80 volts DC.
DC arc faults do not occur on solar systems that use microinverters and some systems that use DC optimisers that reduce the DC voltage to safe levels in the event of a fault.'
I've got a 1S3P string whose worst-case Voc is under 50V, o this suggests I do not need to be concerned about arc faults on my ow-voltage array - would you agree?
RSD for protection of firemen I understand and have no questions about. It's potential safety issue with arc faults and/or ground faults I am concerned about. With a 1S array under 50V and a 24V battery, do you think there are any significant safety concerns with arc faults and/or ground faults that I need to educate myself on?
Thanks.
Do you agree with the claim in that article that keeping DC voltages under 80VDC is one way to avoid any concern with arc faults?
400bird
Solar Wizard
That article feels like equal parts marketing and scare tactics with some repeating of our NEC standards.
You could try it and find out. Do like the arc fault videos and see how big of an arc you can build.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Yeah, that's my thought of I can make it work the the purchased equipment and no downsides, I'll do it.
Right?! It's more than double the number of connections and I end up mating different brands more often. With a string, all the series connections between panels will be the same brand, your only possible brand change happens at each end of the string for the home run.
Now I have a brand change from the home run to the RSD box and from the RSD box to each panel.
In my 2s string. I would have 3 MC4 connectors.
Once the RSD boxes are added I've got 6. It would be 8 if I used individual RSD boxes (not the dual)
