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Advice Needed: Off Grid Living in cargo trailer

Dmainah207

New Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2024
Messages
3
Location
Maine
Hello DIY Enthusiasts (and Will!)

I’m thrilled to have found this community! After diving into countless rabbit holes, stumbling across this forum has been interesting to me. The projects here are incredible, it’s been a big inspiration and I’m excited to join the conversation. I’m posting to get some validation for my plan and to see if there are better ways to approach it. I’d love to hear your suggestions, advice, or alternative ideas to make this as efficient and practical as possible.

Here’s the situation: Life threw me a few curveballs, and my living arrangement unexpectedly fell through. Now, I’m working on converting my 27-ft insulated enclosed trailer into a off-grid living space to get through this winter with my dog. I’m embracing it as an opportunity to dive into a simpler, self-sufficient lifestyle. Your advice, tips and inputs are appreciated!

The essentials:
Here’s what I need to power for now with plans to expand more later : (I will get a kill a watt meter to start checking and tracking.)
  • A desktop computer with dual monitors
  • A fridge little larger than a mini-fridge with a freezer (suggestions welcome!)
  • A couple of LED lights
  • Occasional 1500W devices such as induction stove, microwave a pancake air compressor
  • Charging for phones, flashlights, dog collars, and cordless tool batteries
  • Starlink for internet
  • A heater (probably diesel heater)
  • Maybe forgetting something and extra room for power is always good
Down the road this summer I'll want to add more things like a mini-split for heating/cooling and a water heater.

Power Plan

I found an ad in Mass for a nearly complete setup. I want to check it out but need to check with yall first.
  • EG4 6000XP inverter
  • 1 EG4 Lifepower battery
  • 8x 360W REC Black-on-Black solar panels
They’re asking $5,500. Does this sound like a good deal? Or pass? If go for it, then I'll have to get mounts for the roof, chargeverter and second battery when able to get one.

Heating Plan

I’ve always loved the charm of wood stoves and considered getting one, but the upkeep - reloading it every few hours - just isn’t practical for me. A heat pump sounds ideal for its dual heating and cooling, but I’m concerned about the power consumption and whether just one battery could last through extended cloudy days. I'm leaning toward using diesel heaters for full-time heating this winter. Probably should get two units for redundancy - better safe than sorry in subzero temps! I like the idea of one all-in-one unit for simplicity, and the other to assemble myself. That way, if one fails, I’ll have a backup.

Stove/fridge

Not sure what I'll choose yet, still researching on it and I'm open to suggestions.

So yeah living in the trailer could save me a ton in the long run compared to renting over priced studio apartments, and I want to avoid making this winter miserable. I’d love to hear your insights, suggestions, or alternative approaches to make this work

Thanks so much for your advice and time!
 
guessing cash is tight, see about getting a camping two burner propane stove and swapping out the fitting on it to accept a BBQ regulator and hose. Do not use it for extended periods inside this will allow you to cook for short periods without expending electricity.

consider re-insulating the trailer with an additional 2~4' of XPS foam and spray foam it into place. it's easier to save energy than to produce it. you can lay cheap veneeer 1/16"-1/4" and use spray foam or a none solvent style contact cement to glue it to the XPS foam to refinish the interior and make it look more like a house.

ensure you have proper ventilation!.

I do not know if this style heater is available in the united states but if it is, this is what you want

1732098677235.jpeg

that silver box portion with the two holes faces the wall and you have two pipes that go outside of the living space, one is a vent to suck in clean air to combust, the other is an exhaust to remove the carbon monoxide and other combustion byproducts to keep you safe. they are fan equipped to spread the heat through the space and they are rated to run continuously without endangering you inside the trailer. very efficient and as long as you feed them with clean kerosene you will not need to do any maintenance other than to clean the filter once a season (unless you are in a very very dusty space, then you might need to do it more often.)

consider getting a mini chest freezer and placing it on the tongue of the trailer. its cold outside, why waste electricity when mother nature will take care of it for you.

regardless ventilation is important to keep ambient moisture under control in such a small space, remember this, even if it is simply a 4" side vent with a computer fan pulling moist air out, that you can put on a timer or a moisture sensor of some sort.

also consider buying one small inverter that you use as a point fo power inverter something like a small samlex or cotex that has two plugs and an on off switch. use this to power the LED lights and charge your tablet etc when you do not need big loads, its parasitic losses will be less than a 6kw inverter. remember saving is key once again more important then producing.

good luck! and welcome to the forum...
 
Propane stove for cooking and a Mr Heater Buddy for heat. Venting is important. For us the small kitchen window is open and a roof vent cracked open. Besides air flow this helps with condensation.
An Expert Power 2000 watt inverter will run a microwave and is half the price of sungold-aims-sigineer inverters and is basically the same thing.
A Victron 100/20 at $89 is a good for charging up to 2 100Ah lithium batteries. A pair of 240 watt used solar panels is a good choice for that charge controller. A 12volt compressor refrig would be a good choice if the budget allows. The draw about 4 amps when they cycle.
 
I would do the following:

1. heat ... just add a Mr. Heater room propane, 30k btu, to the space; they can be wall-mounted, and you'll run a hose from outside 40lb propane tank. these are safe, rated for indoor use with thermostat, o2 sensor, tilt-protection, etc. You'll still want to consider doors, windows, and when that is sorted out (as quick as you can, and before running a heater), then just crack a window open for fresh air flow

2. skip the used equipment; there is always a reason why someone is selling stuff off, and usually, you don't want to pay that much for someone else's problems. What you should do is start small, as there is still learning to get through. If you buy:
- two 12v300ah batteries (LiTime for example), these will make a 24v battery-bank
- 24v AIO from mpp solar or similar
- appropriate power cables, fuses, etc. (you'll connect battery to aio)
- load center (you'll wire from inverter to load center)
- a lot of work to do to figure out electrical wiring (an electrician can help is needed)

3. note that there's no solar panels yet ... you don't need them right now, to get into this space. Add them much later, after the dust has settled with all your other fires. what you do need is a small inverter-gen dual or triple fuel (you want the propane side)
- I suggest a westinghouse, with remote key fob start, auto-start, smart ATS port, etc.). Get as much generator as you can afford. This is backup power, and with rain, cloud, and your far-northeast location, having backup is better to start. This also powers anything the 24v system can't handle, which is next to nothing.
- don't worry about exact power consumption yet, because between battery-bank & generator, you can run anything. You'll fine-tune to reduce generator need with solar panels, in a later step. fuel gen only runs to recharge battery-bank, or a few hours per day; but again, it's there as the ultimate fallback.

At this point, you've got heat and power. Assuming you've got a place to park this beast of a trailer, and all other site issues are worked out, now you can add:

4. water, wastewater: don't know if trailer has any systems in it yet ... with more details, more advice will come at you if needed. Heat is now on, all the time (mr. heater has a thermostat, so set it low while gone, and things won't freeze).

5. now begin adding solar panels: find a good deal, see how many panels and in what configuration can be supported by the 24v aio you chose. Add these to the roof of trailer, very securely (for travel). Plenty of threads here and elsewhere. tie these into the AIO, and there's less fuel generator load to run (but still some, because this is winter, the northeast, etc.); it'll be good to have the generator as a backup, because you'll never be without power.

At any time, you can add in kitchen appliances, hvac (mini-splits & such), and anything else, as you find the best deal. Plenty of threads on this site and others.

Hope this helps ...
 
I would do the following:

1. heat ... just add a Mr. Heater room propane, 30k btu, to the space; they can be wall-mounted, and you'll run a hose from outside 40lb propane tank. these are safe, rated for indoor use with thermostat, o2 sensor, tilt-protection, etc. You'll still want to consider doors, windows, and when that is sorted out (as quick as you can, and before running a heater), then just crack a window open for fresh air flow

2. skip the used equipment; there is always a reason why someone is selling stuff off, and usually, you don't want to pay that much for someone else's problems. What you should do is start small, as there is still learning to get through. If you buy:
- two 12v300ah batteries (LiTime for example), these will make a 24v battery-bank
- 24v AIO from mpp solar or similar
- appropriate power cables, fuses, etc. (you'll connect battery to aio)
- load center (you'll wire from inverter to load center)
- a lot of work to do to figure out electrical wiring (an electrician can help is needed)

3. note that there's no solar panels yet ... you don't need them right now, to get into this space. Add them much later, after the dust has settled with all your other fires. what you do need is a small inverter-gen dual or triple fuel (you want the propane side)
- I suggest a westinghouse, with remote key fob start, auto-start, smart ATS port, etc.). Get as much generator as you can afford. This is backup power, and with rain, cloud, and your far-northeast location, having backup is better to start. This also powers anything the 24v system can't handle, which is next to nothing.
- don't worry about exact power consumption yet, because between battery-bank & generator, you can run anything. You'll fine-tune to reduce generator need with solar panels, in a later step. fuel gen only runs to recharge battery-bank, or a few hours per day; but again, it's there as the ultimate fallback.

At this point, you've got heat and power. Assuming you've got a place to park this beast of a trailer, and all other site issues are worked out, now you can add:

4. water, wastewater: don't know if trailer has any systems in it yet ... with more details, more advice will come at you if needed. Heat is now on, all the time (mr. heater has a thermostat, so set it low while gone, and things won't freeze).

5. now begin adding solar panels: find a good deal, see how many panels and in what configuration can be supported by the 24v aio you chose. Add these to the roof of trailer, very securely (for travel). Plenty of threads here and elsewhere. tie these into the AIO, and there's less fuel generator load to run (but still some, because this is winter, the northeast, etc.); it'll be good to have the generator as a backup, because you'll never be without power.

At any time, you can add in kitchen appliances, hvac (mini-splits & such), and anything else, as you find the best deal. Plenty of threads on this site and others.

Hope this helps ...
Agree but go straight to 48. Don’t waste time on half measures as no difference in price other than 2 extra batteries and you save money on cabling so that’s almost a wash
 
How often do you expect snow to cover the panels? How would you clean them. Is there any chance that you could do a ground mount system and convert it to roof mount when you're ready to go?
 
I have a converted cargo trailer. 6 x 10. I live in it for three and four days at a time out of the place.

The carbon monoxide accumulation is no joke. Very quick. The thing is a metal box. I have two CO detectors. I’m not gonna trust my life to one $15 deal.

Absolutely have a roof hatch and have it open when you’re cooking. I have a way to open a door and a hatch from your bed of the thing goes off in the night.

The Mr. heater things are supposed to be ventless, but they sure fill up the place with combustion by products. I hate it.

I’ve left trailer intentionally leaky around the door seals and the hatch seal and there’s a hole in the floor where I run power through. I do heat the thing with a tiny tot coal stove. Not the safest thing in the world. It heats the place up very well. But you have to be a little careful how you load the coal so you dont choke it out and fill the place up with CO. I believe it was designed for a loose drafty wagon type environment.

All the best. Hope things work out.
 
Hey everyone, thank you so much for your helpful input, it’s really appreciated!

Yeah, cash is a bit tight, so I’m not keen on overpriced studio apartments. Funny thing is, some of these tiny apartments have nearly the same square footage as my trailer! So, I’m thinking why not give it a shot? I’m still figuring out a place to park it for the winter. It is so lame that learn many rv and camp grounds are closed for the winter.

I do have a camping two-burner propane cooktop, and I don’t mind using it. I’ve also thought about getting one of those little RV or camp propane stoves. But with propane, I know there’ll be plenty of moisture in the air from cooking and burning, plus the carbon monoxide risk is a big deal. That’s why an induction setup sounded like a good idea. I mean safety first! But dang they draw lots of power too.

You're right guys, ventilation is definitely key. The trailer has three windows, screened door, a 2x2 fuel bay door, and a roof vent (no fan, but I could add one). Technically a propane stove should work as long as a window and roof vent are open. Same with propane heater Right?

Now I'm not so sure about heater situation. lol propane vs diesel. maybe just get both lol.

When I bought the trailer, I was told it was insulated, though I’ve never taken down the walls to check. From what I can feel between the studs from pressing on the vinyl wall, there’s like an 8th gap. Seems there's insulation there. If the trailer is not insulated I believe there would be more flex closer to 1 inch when pressing onto the wall. Although you’re right it’s worth tearing down the walls/roof to verify and re insulate. It’d cost around $2900 to do that. XPS insulation (3” thickness, R-15 value), plus spray foam cans. After that, I’d put up OSB plywood and reuse the vinyl panels, so I can attach things like shelving and cabinets directly to the plywood rather than the trailer’s frame.

However, I’m in a bit of a pinch, need to relocate and want to trust that the trailer is insulated. I’m sure there’s some gaps here and there, and I would plan on doing the full re insulate + build when the weather starts to warm up.

As for the chest fridge/freezer, leaving it outside is a good idea, but there’s not really space on the tongue of the trailer, it’s pretty short. For security reasons, I’m thinking I’ll keep it inside.

I totally understand about avoiding used equipment, sometimes it’s just someone’s problem they’re trying to unload. Or sometimes it’s a wicked good buy. I appreciate the advice on the 12v battery setup to make a 24v system. Like Tanuki suggested I’m also considering going straight to 48v. Recently I seen Will’s mobile 3k 48v dolly system, and to me it looks like a great concept. That’s what I figured is the direction I probably should go with. Although I would be pushing the limits of the 3000w inverter, the 6000w inverter is the next one up. On signature solar website it’s $2900 for the 6000XP with one 48v EG4 battery, plus shipping fee. Or two battery for $4251. Some things are currently backordered till December though. I could go look at the used one and see if it's any good. Maybe he'll take a lower offer.

As for the solar panels, you’re right, I could skip that for now and just use a battery system with a generator and chargeverter. Noted about Westinghouse dual/triple fuel generators. I’ve seen the 5000w models going for about $500 on Marketplace, I could pick one up.

I agree that carbon monoxide is no joke. I’ve got several detectors to keep an eye on.

I’ll share some photos of the trailer, inside and out, so you can get a better idea of what I’m working with.

Thank you and have a great Thursday!
 
pics
 

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Blurb time? Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease be blurb time!

Blurb time!

Well, I'll start the default answer to these questions and we can work from there. Here's you To-Do list:

1: Power audit! This will give you some important information on how big your inverter needs to be as well as how much battery capacity you'll need. There is a link in the FAQ section (I think, or someone here will post it shortly) so fill in the blanks and see what it comes up with. You'll probably need some sort of Kill-A-Watt to get accurate measurements. Are you going to be running a 12v system? 24v system? 48v system? What are the specs on your solar panels? VoC? Vmp? Being as this is a new build, throw together a wish list of what you want and estimate on the high side.

1a: Where do you live? Speccing out a system for Scotland is a LOT different numbers than Arizona due to the amount of light you actually get. Someone here can post the link to the PVwatts.com or JCR Solar Uber-Sun-Hours calculator sites to help figure out how much you'll have to work with. That will be a box in the Power Audit form.

2: Parts list: You don't need a make & model list, just a parts list to start from for reference. You'll need an inverter, a MPPT charge controller, fuses, shunt, buck converter, batteries, wire, etc. Once you have a basic list it can be fine tuned to make & models after that. If you're looking at the All-In-Ones check for correct voltage outputs (120v or 240v Split Phase for North America, 220v Single Phase for European type areas) and make sure it has enough capacity for a little bit of growth and fudge factor.

3: Budget!: Steak is great but doesn't mean anything if your wallet says hamburger. :) Figure out what you're able to spend now vs what you'll have to cheap out on now and upgrade later.

4: Tape measure! Figure out where you're going to stick all the stuff you'll need. A dozen 3000AH batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because there's no room left for a bed. Is there a compartment that can house all this stuff? Will the server rack batteries fit? Are you going to have to make space? Physics can be pretty unforgiving.

5: Pencil out what you think you need and throw it at us so we can tell you what you've missed (because we ALL miss stuff the first go-round :) ) and help figure out which parts and pieces you're going to want to get.

Well that's the thing about solar systems, there is no 1-Size-Fits-All answer. Your system will need to be designed to fit YOUR needs. When you design and built the system, it's not going to be the perfect system for me, or Will or 12vInstall or anyone else, but it Will be the right system for You and that's the goal.

As for where to get started, let me throw my standard blurb in here to help point you in the right direction. There's going to be a lot of math and research involved, but that's going to be a LOT cheaper than just buying parts off of someone's list and finding out that it doesn't do what you need.

Don't panic on the Power Audit, you'll actually be doing that a few times. When you do the first pass put in ALL the Things that you might want. AirCon? Sure. Jacuzzi? Why not. MargaritaMaster-9000? Go for it.

The second pass will be the "I Absolutely Need This To Survive" list that isn't going to have much on there.

The third pass will be the "This is what is realistic" audit that you'll use to design the rest of the system.

The Power Audit is going to tell you 3 primary things: 1: How big does your inverter need to be to power your loads? 2: How much battery bank do you need to last $N number of days with krappy weather? and 3: How much solar panel will I need to install to refill those batteries in a 4 hour day (the average usable sun hours rule-of-thumb).

Once you know what you Want and what you Need and what your budget can Afford there will be somewhere in that Venn diagram where those three things meet.

After that, THEN you can start looking at parts.

Yes, it's a long drawn out process, but it's worth it in the end. Not every house has the exact same floorplan, not every vehicle is the same make & model, and not every solar system is designed the same.
 
I felt a disturbance in the force. 😉

Stick with the diesel heater, DO NOT buy the pre-assembeled ones, go with the kit and install it yourself. The fuel tank can be mounted outside just fine, pipe the intake and exhaust out the floor, and let it recirc the air inside. Much dryer than propane, no CO worries, and Vevor has them for about $100, but spend the little extra on the $120 5kw version so you can set by temperature instead of just 1-6. If you're interested, you can ping me and I'll send you my cleaning guide. The only cavet to those is that they use about 15a on the 12v supply for the first couple minutes so you'll need a beefy step down converter to support that.

Try to track down a propane RV water heater and pipe it in with your propane cooktop. Way less battery capacity needed if you can do heat, food, and hot water WITHOUT electricity. Plus, they're usually fairly cheap on Craigslist or Facepage market and even if they don't work, they're dead easy to repair.

Have any friends that are welders? Build a rack on the tongue to hold a couple 40 or 50 pound propane bottles. Get 2 so you can take one for filling without having to bleed and drain your propane stuff.

Old camper propane cooktops have been servicing people for almost a hundred years. Most of the time a screwdriver and an air compressor are all it takes to turn a flakey burner to a real ripper! When you find a "deal" it's an easy fix. Plus, they don't take up much space.

Mini-split in the future, budget now.

There are many, many brands of equipment that will turn solar DC into battery DC and into wall AC that are NOT blue, so don't let the smurfs get you down. You will probably be right on that line of 24v or 48v depending on what your power audit has to say. Both have pro's and cons.

48v - +More common AIO's, +smaller wire size, + smaller fuses, -higher voltage paneling required, -48v AIO's tend to need really high voltages to start charging, -batteries have a larger footprint, -step down converter needed for most everything that isn't 120v

24v - +AIO's still available, +more SCC's support 24v than 48v, +lower starting voltage required, +smaller physical footprint batteries, +24v diesel heaters are available, +24v LED lighting is still bright and fairly common, -not as many 24v inverters out there, especially AIO's, -need higher density cells to compete with 48v, -larger wires, -larger fuses

So you can go either way.

Another thing to think about is HOW you use your power. As an example, we had a member on here a while back trying to power his tiny home. Every time he ran through the power audit sheet, it kept telling him he needed 10kw+ worth of inverter. I pointed out that if he PROMISED not to make espresso while frothing in the blender while microwaving breakfast while he blow dried his hair, then a 3kw unit was plenty.

Just my $0.04 anyways. 😉👍
 
48v - + higher wattages available, + split phase 240 is readily available, - 5kw for a 120v single leg is about the top end.

24v - -3.6kw is about the top end

Look really hard at AIO's, when you're on a budget it's darned near impossible to make a component system with the same specs for anywhere close to the cost of an AIO.
 
I went with three-quarter inch insulation. With Mylar layer next to the skin with an air gap. I didn’t want lose anymore interior room. But I’m in Texas not Maine.
 
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I like the CO detectors that tell you historic high levels. No more expensive than the regular deal that is simply on or off. Unless I mess something up, mine reads zero at all times.
 
With all these detailed replies I just want to give my $0.02 worth, budget wise. You can buy an EG4 6000XP new for $1,500 and build a 15kwh LFP battery for under $2,000. That's equal to 3 5kwh rack mount batteries.
yep and charge it off of a cheap predator gasoline generator when the solar does not make enough... you can cram charge the Lithium batteries in ways that FLA only dream of.
 
A fridge little larger than a mini-fridge with a freezer (suggestions welcome!)
I have a ‘stationary rv” setup fully offgrid that’s been successful fulltime (with Vermont winters!) since 2021 (3-season for several years prior).

I rotated in and out several refrigerators.

I have been running a (7.5cf? 8cf?) top-freezer unit for several years now. Same 60W running and maybe 10% more runtime in warmer months than the small fridge you are suggesting.

I’d recommend doing the same. Power consumption nearly identical and the much larger freezer are a blessing.

3-4CF units are way too much of a compromise in capacity and therefore are annoying for shopping less than twice a week or so. I can store two+ weeks of fridge-food and a month of frozen meats with 7.5CF
A heater (probably diesel heater)
my 28kbtu (32?) rv furnace is propane. I use a 100gallon tank that usually gets filled November and beginning of February. 100gal gives plenty of buffer, runs stove/oven, and makes hot water.

Diesel heater is fine but if your latitude is north I’m personally not that confident in a $125 diesel heater versus the 100% duty cycle a propane furnace is capable of. The risk of freezing pipes and destroying other equipment like water heater and shower drain is more than I want to risk myself
 
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one thing to remember CO goes down, its heavier than regular O2/air. so make a 4" vent at the bottom of the trailer and pull CO/cold air out vice at the top where you are pulling hot air that is not CO. a small computer fan should be enough flow to keep you safe and you could run it off of a small power supply or step down transformer from the batteries.

after looking at the photos that is straight steel(maybe aluminum) walled correct? 4" of XPS is your friend in a location that is that cold. you should glue to each wall and the ceiling, and foam any gaps with spray foam. just need to build out casements around the door and windows/vents. you will be surprised how much heat is retained if you insulate properly and once again if you use a heater that exhausts its gas outside and sucks in its clean air form outside then you do not need to exhaust as much warm moist air to keep the trailer dry which in turn means less heat is needed to maintain to begin with. I would personally not use one of the Mr. Buddy heaters those type of heaters are great when they work perfectly... you start seeing any flames and you are getting CO...
 
If money is tight and your plan is to live in it for only 1 winter, I would consider much cheaper solar AIO and battery options.

I have less than $5000 into my equipment and less than $3500 into the equipment I am actually using now for my 24 ft travel trailer. I pretty much went the route 50ShadesOfDirt outlined except I went 48V instead of 24V. I have a 48V 5000W AIO (<$600) and 14.4KWh of battery(<$2000) with an equalizer (<$80). I have a 3500W Predator generator from HF for backup and charging batteries($650 when I bought it 7 years ago). I have 1300W of panels, but don't have them installed yet. With no charging I run for about 60 hours of weekend (home all day) use before getting down to 20-30% battery. That is where I set the alarm so I have some reserve.

Edit: I didn't realize the prices you listed were for AIO and batteries. Those aren't too bad, but not the cheapest you can go.
 
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The battery size of the kit was left out so its hard to say if that is a good deal. I built a 304AH 12V pack with bluetooth for $600. The diesel heater isn't going to compete against you for oxygen so good choice, those Mr Buddies are popular but they remove oxygen from the air and they create condensation problems. I bought a CDH AIO for $120. It has bluetooth and it uses elevation to determine the air:fuel mixture which is critical so that it doesn't soot up prematurely.
 

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