Advice/Suggestions Required To Complete 12v Upgrade

[OffGridFoodForestCreators]

We joined this forum seeking guidance/advice on buying the correct 12v gear to go with what we have already purchased

We are a family of 6 in Australia with many supporters involved in co-creating food forests. Go here to learn about our backgrounds and why food forests, etc: http://loveforlife.com.au

Our current 100% offgrid requirements to create food forests from scratch, 100% offgrid for at least 6 months at a time, is 70% fire and LPG and 30% 12v Solar and Petrol or Lithium generators.

Our camper trailer is a Black Patron purchased new March 2019:

Patron Off-Road Pop Up Camper | Black Series Campers

It has an impressive carrying capacity and is suitable for family or long-haul travel. The trailer is tough and practical, ready for your journey at all times. The Black Series’ specially designed independent suspension and galvanized towbar can cope with the most rugged terrain.• SOLAR PANEL• EN

www.blackseriescamper.com

Patron Overview: https://www.blackseriescamper.com/pop-up-campers/patron.html

Patron Specs: https://www.blackseriescamper.com/pop-up-campers/patron-tech-specs.html

Until infrastructures are in place, we use the camper trailer as a hub for kitchen, showers, food storage, 12v and 240v energy, office, studio, sleeping (which also involves numerous other tents, swags, etc).

We are now working on replacing all the 12v cabling and low end products that came as bells, streamers and whistles when we purchased the trailer.

We can't afford all the high end 12v system brand names (Redarc/Enerdrive/etc) but there is an Australian Perth based family company that offers excellent quality gear and service called iTech World https://itechworld.com.au and bar cables, meter systems, battery boxes and fuse protection, we are buying gear from iTech.

Early December 2019 we purchased 4 x iTech 120ah lithium batteries for $679.20 each inc free delivery from Perth to Moss Vale NSW:

iTECH120X 12v Lithium Deep Cycle Battery LiFePO4

Upgrade your power source with the iTECH120X Lithium Battery - designed and developed in Australia with over a decade of expertise. This 10kg powerhouse offers 100% usable capacity, IP67 Waterproof rating, and a 5-year Australian warranty. Say goodbye to heavy AGM batteries and hello to a true...

itechworld.com.au

For 12v, the 4 x iTECH120 batteries will need to be hooked together in parallel with each battery running at 120amps. Each battery weighs 13kg and is the equivalent of 200ah agm/gell batteries, a total of 800ah AGM or 480ah lithium. Some say per battery that it actually is 240ah AGM = 960AH

From iTech we also purchased a 3000 Watt 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter ITECH3000W with remote control for $471.20 inc free delivery.

Pure Sine Wave Inverters » 12v Power Inverters

Power your sensitive electronic devices without fear. Our 12v pure sine waver inverters range from 400w with car adapter to 3000w with remote control.

itechworld.com.au

We also purchased the iTECH2000A Portable Jump Starter Backup Wireless Power Bank that they claim is the safest in the World.
We got it delivered for $201.00. It was a 20% off Black Friday deal. We keep this in the car.

iTECH2000A 2000 Amp Portable Lithium Jump Starter

The iTECH2000A jump starter produces enough Cold Cranking Amps to start a flat battery of any petrol & most diesel vehicles. Free Accessories & Carry Case.

itechworld.com.au

The rest of the gear we require including wiring, fuse protection, etc, is what we need advice on. We don't know the extremes of wat/amp usage going on per day because we don't know at any given time who will be there on site from one week to the next - many supporters will be coming and going. So we are sort of planning for the worst while living for the best.

We will definitely not be running air conditioning or micro waves but we will be running at least 2 x 12v refrigerators/freezers, numerous 12v led string lights with dimmers, using Ryobi 12v or 240v ONE+ battery rechargers (have numerous Ryobi tools and batteries) 2 x water pumps, 2 x mini tower computers with 22" monitors, one running audio and video production (includes speakers, external audio device) . a printer come scanner and copier, a 25kg washing machine, usb charging many mobile phones, ipods/ipads, led lithium torches, etc. When we can't have fire, its raining and we are too busy with no one free to look over an indoor fire (inside an enclosed awning coming off the camper trailer), we will use lpg or 240v for toaster, water jug, blender, food mixer, coffee machine, etc.

We also plan to install a DC to DC battery charger inside the engine bay (done by an auto electrician when we also install a Redarc V3 Elite Electrical Brake Controller) with large copper cabling running into the boot and underneath the back of the car, with high quality Anderson Plugs for charging the portable battery box when required and for charging the 4 x iTech 120 batteries located in the camper trailer when required.

When stationary, the camper trailer will have at least 4 x iTech 280w solar mats/blankets https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...panel-for-caravan-camping-boats-4wd-motorhome

and one or two MPPT solar controllers.

The portable battery box will be used for running 12v water pumps, 12v led string lights with dimmers, 12v fridge, usb charging mobiles, led torches, ipods/ipads, a notebook, etc. We will also have, when required, 2 x iTech 80w solar mats/blankets and a MPPT solar controller to charge the battery box located in the boot of the car.

We will be buying another iItech120 lithium battery for this portable battery box.

To Will or whoever,

iTech only has a 25amp Solar Controller Dual input 25A In-Vehicle DC Battery Charger iTECHBCDC25 DCDC - https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...25a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger-itechbcdc25

and a 30 Amp MPPT solar regulator charge controller https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...techworld-30-amp-mppt-solar-charge-controller

Considering heavy usage periods can we go up to a Renogy 50amp DC to DC with solar input https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Renogy-...293168747418?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

and a

Renogy Rover 100Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Renogy-...a=0&pg=2386202&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598

The faster the input charging the batteries better to counter the 12v output being used?

Is this correct?

If not, are the itech DC and iTech MPPT listed above, good enough to use or should we use a not so powerful Renogy DC to DC and Renogy MPPT controller???

And how many 280w iTech solar mats/blankets can we run to speed up feeding the batteries?

And how many MPPT solar controllers and at what amps?

Renogy Rover Li 60Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller Regulator w/ Bluetooth Module https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Renogy-...293254322415?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

What kind of cabling do we require? Something like 6B&S or something even better than that?

What about fuses?

Renogy : https://www.ebay.com.au/i/293254322...H9yZxvXFCqtGA7QiTAF31z4myjnzGhaEaAiTPEALw_wcB

What about 2 x iTech 30 Amp MPPT solar regulator charge controllers. Can they deliver the full power of all the solar panels to charge the 4 iTech120 batteries? . Each controller handles 4 solar panels

Lithium Battery, Solar & Power Generation Experts - iTechworld

Power your next adventure with our lithium batteries, jump starters, power stations & more. Buy online for fast delivery or visit our Perth store in Burswood.

itechworld.com.au

Is this correct? 4 x iTech 280w mat solar panels - two running into each mppt controller and the solar panels are wired both in parallel and series with 50amp or 100amp Anderson plugs coming off each one and depending on the weather we plug into whichever one is required.

Lithium Battery, Solar & Power Generation Experts - iTechworld

Power your next adventure with our lithium batteries, jump starters, power stations & more. Buy online for fast delivery or visit our Perth store in Burswood.

itechworld.com.au

We are also buying the iTech petrol generator 5KVA Pure Sine Wave Inverter| Redback RB4, Remote Start, LCD, Trolley

Inverter Generators - Portable Generators - Camping Generators

Our Australian-designed portable petrol inverter generators are ideal for camping, caravanning and worksites. Buy online or visit our Perth store today.

itechworld.com.au

As for a battery box, we are looking at something like this one from Kick Ass (Australian Direct): https://www.australiandirect.com.au/Battery-Systems/Boxes-Trays/KABB-G

There are other options out there.

We would also like to replace all the much thinner wiring in the camper trailer, with 6B&S cables or whatever is best, while also upgrading the batteries, inverter, battery charger, etc, and installing the two MPPT solar controllers.

We also want to improve the current 12v connectors inside and outside the camper trailer while also installing a few more 12v female connections and a few 240v connections coming off the 3000w inverter, while also running the cable for the 3000w inverters remote control and setting up where the remote control can be kept and used.

iTech says all their gear is heavily protected from power surges and spikes, etc, but we wonder if we include a few quality fuse breakers here and there where required.

The number one, high end, Australian made off grid, etc, Lithium system is Enerdrive. https://enerdrive.com.au

Enerdrive have great products, systems and support in every way imaginable and like Redarc they are just too expensive for non profits like us

All the best to you and your families

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
0418 203204 (Int: 61 418 203 204)
action@loveforlife.com.au
http://loveforlife.com.au
http://facebook.com/arthurcristian

ArthurLoveForLife

Once we all recognise fraud for what it really is in all its forms, to TRUTH we return. The REMEDY to the suffering we experience under "The System" will nev...

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[svetz]

Welcome to the forums!

Hopefully I captured everything from your post above, if not or clarifications are needed just ask.

Current Equipment
4x 120AH LiFePO4
1x 20 AH Lithium-ion Polymer Jump Starter
1x 3 kW pure sine inverter
4x 280W “blanket” panels, 18V, 15.5A
1x 5kva petrol generator

Power Needs
Watt-Hours not specified.

Questions
Q: What sized MPPT do we need?
A: See Figuring out how many panels in series and parallel based on your MPPT

Q: Can multiple MPPTs be used?
A: Yes, but to avoid one spoofing the other use two that are the same model/make.

Q: Do more Amps charge the batteries fasters?
A: Yes, but your batteries will have a maximum charge rate beyond which more amps will damage them and amps will be limited by input solar. With four 280W blankets at 12V that’s about 100 amps.

Q: What Cabling do we need?
A: See What wire gauge should I use?

Q: What size fuses do we need?
A: Not familiar with NECA, but see http://www.diysolarforum.com/threads/solar-panel-circuit-breakers.2048/post-18114.

 

[OffGridFoodForestCreators]

Thanks for replying svetz.

We are still to buy the solar mats and petrol generator and with that a Dc to Dc and MPPT for the vehicle to the Battery Box in the boot which we are still to buy too .

For the main 12v hub coming out of the camper trailer and with the amount of different people with different 12v needs turning up one week to the next, we really don't know what the watt hours will be .There are just too many unknowns. All we can do is build a fail safe system as best we can around the 4 x iTech 120 liFePo4 batteries, what they can handle, using meters, cut outs whatever, to avoid destroying the batteries during low and high periods, using the best cables, fuser protection, battery protection, etc, available. It is in this area only where we are not clear about things and seeking advice with which gear to buy.

You mention "your batteries will have a maximum charge rate beyond which more amps will damage them and amps will be limited by input solar. With four 280W blankets at 12V that’s about 100 amps."

Gear wise, we need to work out what do we have to buy to make sure we don't destroy the batteries?

We want to set up the max amount of solar mat panels required to feed the batteries during peak periods, whatever that maybe, and have in place whatever fail safe gear is required so that the batteries don't get overcooked by too much amperage coming in when the batteries are fully charged. During these long periods being 100% offgrid, we don't plan to disconnect the cables from the solar mats to the batteries. We feel that quality meters, etc, will need to be installed so that we can monitor what is going on as well as using bluetooth whatever for remote checking.

Basically, with you being in our shoes with your 12v experience, what would you do, what gear would you buy to set up what we need? And can you please explain why each piece of gear so we can learn from you and or others who might share their approach in this thread.

Thanks
Arthur

 

[svetz]

Happy to help where I can Arthur!

You mention "your batteries will have a maximum charge rate beyond which more amps will damage them ..." ... [what] do we have to buy to make sure we don't destroy the batteries?

Lithium batteries typically have two C-Rates (one for charging, one for discharging); you just don't want to exceed those. You can read up more on that in the battery FAQ. Voltage and temperature are also big concerns, but typically your BMS and charger will handle under/over voltage. You only have to worry about temperature if it's really hot (typically not an issue if you're not exceeding the maximum C-Rate) or they might get below zero degrees. The way to control the max discharge C-Rate is via your DC breaker (and probably inverter size). The charger will control the voltage and charge C-Rate. If you want to "hypermile" lithium batteries, I believe Will suggests the voltages be 20%/80%. But you can still get years out of them at 15%/90%. Lower discharge C-Rates can will also increase longevity (there's a couple of threads on this, the one that comes to mind is in
Incrementally adding DC batteries). You can decrease C-Rates by increasing the number of batteries (that is each additional battery shares some of the load so decreases overall loading).

... We feel that quality meters, etc, will need to be installed so that we can monitor what is going on as well as using bluetooth whatever for remote checking....

Never met anyone that wasn't happy having good meter; but have kicked myself repeatedly for skimping on my first project.

... what gear would you buy to set up what we need? And can you please explain why each piece of gear...

I'm not a hardware guy and have very limited experiences with hardware, so I'm not the best person to help you out with that. However, take a look in the Show & Tell and Safety Check forums. There's a ton of practical designs that have been implemented with real-world problems and solutions discussed by some of the best minds on the forum... they will definitely give you some ideas. There are also "all-in-one" devices that take a lot of the engineering and complexity out of the equation - but if you go that route go quality, some of the inferior quality of internal components from manufacturer's in Will's videos is down-right frightening. Reinforces the you get what you pay for meme.

 

[OffGridFoodForestCreators]

Thanks svetz We will look into all the links you have provided us.

These iTech 120's have a very large discharge current with each battery pulling a max of 280 Amps and we will have 4 of these batteries wired in parallel to keep them at 12v. They will be located inside the camper trailer within enclosed cupboards where extreme temperatures can be avoided. We will be insulating the insides of these cupboards to make sure temperatures are controlled for the better.

 

[OffGridFoodForestCreators]

Coming up with a design layout to meet our needs will really help. Maybe someone might eventually come forward to assist in this area???

 

[DrewXT]

with respect to the DC-DC charger, you should consider stretching for the Enerdrive DC2DC 40+ ...

it's probably the best (as well as best price point) Lithium compatible DC2DC charger available in Australia at the moment. MyGenerator are selling them for $420, and it has an MPPT charger built in that is significantly better than the iTechWorld ones (I have a set of iTechWorld panels, and their MPPT's are crap). RRP on the DC2DC+ is $520, and at $420 they're making about $50 ...

Enerdrive ePOWER 12V 40A DC to DC Battery Charger | End of Financial Year Sale | Battery Chargers

Shop for Enerdrive ePOWER 12V 40A DC to DC Battery Charger online in Australia at My Generator. We provide a huge selection of End of Financial Year Sale online at the best prices available. For more information, contact us at: 1300 400 122.

www.mygenerator.com.au

Note I'm not affiliated with My Generator.

Have you considered approaching Enerdrive to sponsor you for their hardware? It is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the iTechWorld gear... You might get a discounted price in return for articles mentioning their equipment?