AKE Atlantic Key Energy Solar Install Pensacola, FL

[kendive]

I have a friend that got a pretty large system installed on there house by MOSAIC AKE Solar Company. First off they failed to install the Consumption CT's. They are coming back to install them now because I said something. Also Enphase was contacted that the company did not install them. I wonder how many other customers they have cheated...

The other issue is they failed to follow the 120% Rule. Here are some system details and I will provide pics.

51 Panels = 315 Watts Hyundai Panels (HiD-5315RG(BK) Enphase IQ7's 16.065 KW System. Standard Combiner 3

It's funny the Escambia County Inspection sticker states they checked the install, but I guess they don't care about the electrical and overloading the main panel...

Tell me what you all think???

Pics

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Not sure what you're getting at, but aren't the IQ7 limited to 250W output regardless of input?

Also, take another look at that sticker. The box is to the right of the label. They checked ELECT.

 

[kendive]

Not sure what you're getting at, but aren't the IQ7 limited to 250W output regardless of input?

Also, take another look at that sticker. The box is to the right of the label. They checked ELECT.

I'm getting at the 120% Rule for the Electrical Panel

All You Need To Know About The 120% Rule

CharacteristicsManufacturer: blog

www.renvu.com

Good point on the IQ7... They may be the IQ7 Plus. I would have to look at the actual model number of the Inverters.



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[kendive]

Not sure what you're getting at, but aren't the IQ7 limited to 250W output regardless of input?

Also, take another look at that sticker. The box is to the right of the label. They checked ELECT.

Also the IQ7's are rated perfect for his 315 Watt Panels (235 - 350 Watt) for the IQ7

https://d3g1qce46u5dao.cloudfront.net/data_sheet/iq7_iq7plus_iq7x_ds_en_us.pdf

 

[kendive]

Another one for you. So this Solar company cut corners and did not upgrade the Main Electrical Panel to a 225 Amp. I feel the system in unsafe.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Just because you can put the panel on it, doesn't mean that's what you get out of it. Look at the output rather than the input, next page:




51 panels * 250W / 240v = 53A. 60/53 = 1.13, so they fell a little short of 1.20, but with most solar, peak amps isn't common.

Why should they upgrade the panel to 225A?

 

[Hedges]

I'm getting at the 120% Rule for the Electrical Panel

Another one for you. So this Solar company cut corners and did not upgrade the Main Electrical Panel to a 225 Amp. I feel the system in unsafe.

"Rules were made to be broken"?

When the NEC rules were being contemplated, they were perfectly aware that a PV backfeed breaker same amperage as main breaker same amperage as busbar rating wouldn't overload anything. So long as PV breaker was installed at far end of busbar.

Current from utility feeds through main. Current from PV feeds in opposite direction. Somewhere in the middle (assuming many load breakers taking current), sum of two opposite directions currents balances to zero. No point of the busbar carries more than its rating.

Concern was in the future someone might relocate PV breaker adjacent to main breaker. Then currents add instead of subtract. 120% rule was a compromise, allowing 20% for PV.

I think the rule is 200% if panel is labeled "PV aggregator" and only has PV generators, no loads.

In the absence of rules, I would make PV breaker up to amperage of busbar.

But yes, installing larger panel, or doing line-side tap, would have been the correct way to exceed 120% of original busbar.

 

[kendive]

"Rules were made to be broken"?

When the NEC rules were being contemplated, they were perfectly aware that a PV backfeed breaker same amperage as main breaker same amperage as busbar rating wouldn't overload anything. So long as PV breaker was installed at far end of busbar.

Current from utility feeds through main. Current from PV feeds in opposite direction. Somewhere in the middle (assuming many load breakers taking current), sum of two opposite directions currents balances to zero. No point of the busbar carries more than its rating.

Concern was in the future someone might relocate PV breaker adjacent to main breaker. Then currents add instead of subtract. 120% rule was a compromise, allowing 20% for PV.

I think the rule is 200% if panel is labeled "PV aggregator" and only has PV generators, no loads.

In the absence of rules, I would make PV breaker up to amperage of busbar.

But yes, installing larger panel, or doing line-side tap, would have been the correct way to exceed 120% of original busbar.

Thanks. Best info so far.

And there are some Crummy Solar Installers out there.




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[kendive]

Just because you can put the panel on it, doesn't mean that's what you get out of it. Look at the output rather than the input, next page:

View attachment 77000


51 panels * 250W / 240v = 53A. 60/53 = 1.13, so they fell a little short of 1.20, but with most solar, peak amps isn't common.

Why should they upgrade the panel to 225A?

Thanks for the Info.

Yes this was a very shady company and I tried to tell him to get with me before you sign anything. Well that did not happen. This couple are in there 80's and like my second parents to me. They get around like teenagers... LOL I hope I'm that healthy when I'm 80. LOL

I will have to see if he does in fact have the IQ7+...

 

[Hedges]

This was a design problem. And shouldn't have passed inspection, if it exceeded 120% rule.
Maybe the plans aren't seen by the city until final inspection? Which means inspector has to look for that sort of thing. If reviewed in the office plan check should have covered it. But on-site, inspector would need to check panel busbar rating matched plans.

I wouldn't necessarily expect an Install Monkey to know this, but foreman on the job ought to be checking site conditions before starting.

 

[Hedges]

51 panels * 250W / 240v = 53A. 60/53 = 1.13, so they fell a little short of 1.20, but with most solar, peak amps isn't common.

Why should they upgrade the panel to 225A?

The 120% rule applies to breaker size, regardless of available power.
The breaker should be 125% of max continuous power.

If 53A expected, round up to 70A breaker.
Could have a 125A panel (120% would be 150A) with 70A main and 70A PV breaker.
If larger main, higher amperage panel.

I'm not completely sure what breaker ratings are what in this system. In particular, can't tell what the main breaker is. Looks like meter feeds busbar without a breaker?

 

[kendive]

The 120% rule applies to breaker size, regardless of available power.
The breaker should be 125% of max continuous power.

If 53A expected, round up to 70A breaker.
Could have a 125A panel (120% would be 150A) with 70A main and 70A PV breaker.
If larger main, higher amperage panel.

I'm not completely sure what breaker ratings are what in this system. In particular, can't tell what the main breaker is. Looks like meter feeds busbar without a breaker?

Yes you are correct. The meter feeds the busbar without a breaker. Very typical here in Florida.

 

[kendive]

Merry Christmas you all and thanks for all the replies.

He is staying on the Solar Company to get these things fixed. At least they have it scheduled to get the Consumption CT's Installed.

Enphase was floored that the company did not install them

This is Interesting.

Atlantic Key Energy scam in Cape Coral

What a mess...

 

[kendive]

Just because you can put the panel on it, doesn't mean that's what you get out of it. Look at the output rather than the input, next page:

View attachment 77000


51 panels * 250W / 240v = 53A. 60/53 = 1.13, so they fell a little short of 1.20, but with most solar, peak amps isn't common.

Why should they upgrade the panel to 225A?

IQ7 is the inverter and here is the date on the panels. So good match?

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[CrazyWabbit]

Please provide readable label from main service panel, readable picture of meter.

First thing I see is GE breaker, square D breakers and it looks like the solar is on a Eaton breaker, that is very bad. Never put other then the specified breaker in a service panel. Please get a electrical out and fix this. If the panel is a 300 amp panel your i think you are fine on backfeed; but I doubt it is a 300 amp panel.

I would pull the plans and go talk to the county building permit office and have them red tag it, also contact Mosiac and file a complaint with them as well.

 

[Hedges]

First thing I see is GE breaker, square D breakers and it looks like the solar is on a Eaton breaker, that is very bad. Never put other then the specified breaker in a service panel. Please get a electrical out and fix this.

Personally I prefer Square-D QO breakers and panels (125A and above so copper not aluminum busbar), but ..

"UL Classified to Fit Virtually Any Panel..."

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/low-voltage-power-distribution-controls-systems/circuit-breakers/classified-circuit-breakers/ul-classified-replacement-circuit-breakers-sa00304001e.pdf

 

[kendive]

Please provide readable label from main service panel, readable picture of meter.

First thing I see is GE breaker, square D breakers and it looks like the solar is on a Eaton breaker, that is very bad. Never put other then the specified breaker in a service panel. Please get a electrical out and fix this. If the panel is a 300 amp panel your i think you are fine on backfeed; but I doubt it is a 300 amp panel.

I would pull the plans and go talk to the county building permit office and have them red tag it, also contact Mosiac and file a complaint with them as well.

Yea no way is there panel rated at 300 amps. It 200 at the most.

I did not find any info on the panel to get a picture of and here is a pic of the meter.

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I only have a 9360 Watt Enphase system with the IQ7A Inverters and they upgraded my panel to this... But I knew what I was doing and was on there a$%&* when I was deciding who and what was going to touch my house. I also got a killer deal and kept me from doing myself. I was gonna go that route.

Solar is like buying a new car you got to deal for price and what you get. I got so mad when my friend signed on the dotted line without asking me first. It's really sad how Atlantic Key Energy installed there system. Gives solar a very bad name.

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[Hedges]

Yea no way is there panel rated at 300 amps. It 200 at the most.
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How do we compute 120% rule when there is no main breaker?

They have 70A PV backfeed breaker.
If busbar was rated 125A, then 120% would be 150A and up to 80A breaker for main would fit that.

But with no breaker, utility will feed panel with whatever loads might be present.
60 + 30 + 50 + 40 + 100 = 280A?
Seems to me the busbar and overhead wires can already get overloaded.

PV breaker where installed can only reduce current in busbar, not increase it, if loads exceed 70A.
If PV breaker was incorrectly installed or moved to other end of busbar, it still wouldn't increase current in busbar. Only hold voltage to loads higher by reducing current in overhead wires by up to 70A.

I see the local policy of no main breaker as the only problem, can't come up with any risk posed by addition of PV.

 

[CrazyWabbit]

CL200 is a 200amp service

 

[kendive]

Well they came out and installed the CT's. Funny they broke the Power Co Seal to get in the meter box. Here are some pics.