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Ali Express feels so shady - but do I have a choice buying LiFePO4 batteries?

Factory400

Factory400

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
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I have only ordered a handful of things from Ali Express and Alibaba over the years, all of which has been low value.

Now that I am building some large-ish battery systems, the money is enough to sting if I get ripped off. How in the world do I qualify the myriad of vendors on Ali Express selling the LiFePO4 cells?

Descriptions are dubious, communication is generally poor. However - there are very very few stocking resources in the USA for these items and naturally they are way more expensive for the same things.
 
People order from Ali because they're cheap. You often get what you pay for, and China will screw you if they can get away with it.

The differences with local sources are:

Availability
Support
Trust

If a US based vendor is buying large quantities of cells for stocking in the U.S., the supplier is motivated to provide a conforming product vs. some jackass in his basement ordering 4-16 cells. Larger orders are more profitable. The effort to ship 1000 cells is only marginally more than to ship 16 cells and may be less costly because they can go sea freight on a delayed schedule.

The little guy is a PERFECT target for those cells that are just outside spec that wouldn't be acceptable to the larger customers.

IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the cells bought off Ali don't meet spec. I see few folks checking IR, and that's one of the most common failures. Granted, for cells rated at .5C charge and 1C discharge but are only being run at a fraction of that, IR may not matter, but you're still not getting what you pay for.


Probably more than you want to spend given what you can get on Ali, but they likely have something in stock, and the prices are still 1/2 that of Battleborn. If there's a problem, you can call Carl and get resolution.
 
Once the cells are landed in the USA, Duties, Taxes etc tacked on top along with whatever it cost to ship the lot. So the $75USD cell advertised in China will of course double in cost after all of that and it is still a "Production Grade-A" cell. Now if the cells are taken and matched for Voltage & IR properly through the 3 day test cycle on a machine to do it, add $50 to a cell and possibly more if you want reports &/Or labels on each cell. Then of course the US Vendor has to handle it manage the shipping etc and tack on a respectable profit margin to stay in business. You could also just buy Fully Matched cells from China but the "value" will be higher and so duties & taxes get higher too and it will still be double after shipping DPP.

IN this forum we have explored MANY vendors and found Foolies, Slicksters and Shysters of all flavours & sizes (not just Chinese BTW). We have also found Good Reliable & Dependable Vendors (many from Alibaba) and those of us who have dealt with these vendors are very pleased with the result. Please appreciate, some buy 8 cells, some buy 32 but we have had people buy 100+ cells. I do believe one of our members bought 250, 280AH cells which only had 4 dubious ones in the batch (at the edge of the Grade-A general grade) which they put into a 12V Utility Pack. even though they had replacements shipped immediately.

Lastly, if you use Alibaba for example, it can take Visa, MasterCard etc and PayPal as well (some vendors do charge a bit of an extra fee as PP isn't shy) and Those mechanisms do work well for Alibaba if there is any issues.

Case in Point: Battleborn Batteries use imported Grade-A Cells BUT They are Factory Matched & Batched to stringent spec and again re-verified in the US prior to them being used in the Battery Pack Assembly... Their 12V/100AH Battery retails around $950 USD, little lower on sale.

Myself, I used XUBA from Alibaba, there are two very long threads on their products. Their sister company Luyuan also had Shipping etc included and have a heck of a September Sale on. BUT, these are Grade-A spec but NOT Matched & Balanced, they are direct from Production Batches that pass the basic quality specs for the grade.
Link to LUYUAN products so you can see their listings & info.

Grade A lifepo4 battery,Non-grade A lifepo4 battery,Battery Pack direct from CN

Grade A lifepo4 battery,Non-grade A lifepo4 battery,Battery Pack Products and 0 more Products from Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
szluyuan.en.alibaba.com szluyuan.en.alibaba.com

Good Luck, Hope it Helps
Steve
 
I do like Electric Car Company. but I bought cells from Overkill. Good customer service, from both. They act as the middle man with china and absorb the risk. They take care of their customers as local suppliers.
 
With these well considered responses, I think I will add some weight to the USA based importers. The additional cost may not be an additional cost if I actually get what I am expecting within a reasonable amount of time - as well as having a functional line of communication if anything is off.

I have a test order with an Ali Express vendor for 16pcs 200Ah LiFePO4 CALB cells. Of course they have promised 'Grade-A', 'fully tested', etc, etc. They were marked as shipped 5 days after the order was placed and 11 days later there is still no evidence of tracking number. The messages to the vendor asking for tracking information get a response "Do not worry".

Sure......not a whole lot of confidence this will end well. Maybe, maybe not.
 
snoobler said:

Probably more than you want to spend given what you can get on Ali, but they likely have something in stock, and the prices are still 1/2 that of Battleborn. If there's a problem, you can call Carl and get resolution.
Click to expand...

The risk analysis here is that I can get 100% ripped off from Ali Express by one vendor and if the next one delivers - it is still a lower cost. I guess it is possible to get ripped off 100% by two vendors on Ali Express back to back.

I nearly purchased 16x of the Fortune 100Ah cells for my initial test sytem, but was concerned about the cost to build my long term system that is planned to be 30-50KWh.
 
The Tracking Number not being available right away is actually Very Normal. Typically a tracking number will be issued but sits without update as it goes on a boat. Once it arrives at the port and starts the process, the Tracking goes Live.

Try to contact Craig here who is a Moderate, he carries Cells, BMS' and many other goodies and ships from California. Ask him about what you need/want and he'd likely be able to help you out.
diysolarforum.com

Would you pay a $700 for 4 tested 280Ah lifePo4 cells that could be delivered to CONUS within 1 week?

Hi all one of my battery suppliers has a decent price on 280 AH cells they are allegedly made new in 2020. I have been selling LTO cells on e-bay for a while now and have tested around 400 of them So I have a pretty efficient testing method set up. My thought is to bulk buy these 280Ah Cells...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
 
If you want to buy from xuba or luyuan, mention that you are from the forum. I guess they sell quite some cells at forummembers, and rhey dont want to rip off a member because bad news would spread quick here. (And they follow the forum also by the way)
That being said, i dont think anyone from here had a bad experience with this company?
Another option is to team up with a few fellow builders and make 1 big order.
 
Steve_S said:
The Tracking Number not being available right away is actually Very Normal. Typically a tracking number will be issued but sits without update as it goes on a boat. Once it arrives at the port and starts the process, the Tracking goes Live.
Click to expand...

Ok - I feel more at ease now.

1st concern is that anything shows up at all.
2nd concern is that what shows up is half way close to what I expect.

Fingers crossed.
 
I got a FedEx tracking number today! Roughly 3 weeks after order which is essentially right on the promised schedule.

Lets see what arrives. The price was really agressive and it went up considerably right after I ordered.
 
Just to chime in here. I have ordered a few different things over Alibaba in the past years. Aluminum extrusion for led lighting applications in 2013. Various Vape products in 2013 and 2014. And now 20 280AH cells (dongguan lighting company) in 2020.

All orders arrived. slowly, but intact. This last order of cells shipped 5 or 6 days after the order was placed, and only 2 days after the video of voltage/balance testing was sent to me. They arrived Sept 10th. 1 month and 9 days after the order was placed. With the cheapest shipping method (boat, then ground freight)

They were packaged decently enough, and each cell was in its own little cocoon of foam. Plastic corner braces. And other foam insterted in the boxes to fill any airgaps.

One box had some tearing of the cardboard, but the cells inside were protected.

I have only visually inspected all 20 cells. And aside from a bit of powdery stuff on 2 of the terminals that seems to come off easy enough with a wire brush, they look uniform and intact.

I cannot vouch for performance on them, but I just finished top balancing 4 of the cells last night for a 12v application, and after a long time of trial and error on my part (total newb) I got the pack to read 3.65 in parallel. I shut it down and around 12 hours later they read 3.58 in parallel. Going to wait another 12 hours of resting and test again. And then another 12 after that. If they read over 3.5 I'm going to call them topbalanced.


In the end, Alibaba has a decent refund policy, and is only as good as the vendors reputation. So if people have been having success on here with cells, it's definitely worth the gamble for the savings. Considering I got 5 full 280ah 12v batteries worth of cells delivered to my door for the price of what 2 battleborn 100ah drop ins would cost, it's totally worth the hassle of a month of shipment uncertainty and the diy aspect.
 
TIP:
IF Any of you have "White Powdery", certainly brush it all off, then wipe with RUBBING ALCOHOL. Same goes for the Busbars, no oils & waxes should remain. A wee dab of NOALOX (very wee, just a light wipe of it with a cloth) on the cell terminals before attaching your busbars (do not get any into the screw holes). OIls & Waxes are often found on the surfaces from manufacturing to prevent corrosion.
 
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I actually had some residue from the masking tape that was put across the terminals on mine ... I used some Goo Gone followed by alcohol on mine and then burnished with emery cloth and cleaned again with alcohol.
Probably over-kill, but they were definitely clean before I applied a thin coat of noalox.
 
Suggest you view vender's reputation.
I chose Shenzhen Basen Technology for their business characteristics. Look for those golden diamonds for online performance.
Remember, it is all on the level.
 
UPDATE:
The batteries arrived!!!! 65 days total, but hey they arrived.

They passed visual scrutiny and the cells are only about 3mV different.

Next up is to cycle all 16pcs to see if there are any duds.
 
Been using aliexpress mostly for bike parts, but pulled the trigger on 4 pcs of 90ah batteries. Arrived safely after 2 months. If you use a charge card, you have a lot of protection both from the card company and aliexpress. A few days after the order, you will get a Fedex track No. But that just signals the package has left China and probably is the boat. There is no activity on the fedex track no till it reaches a US port. Been happy with the battery purchase. Waiting for the next sale to get another set. Patience is the key. FYI, aliexpress charges sales tax in CA as they have an office in the state.
 
Zil said:
I do like Electric Car Company. but I bought cells from Overkill. Good customer service, from both. They act as the middle man with china and absorb the risk. They take care of their customers as local suppliers.
Click to expand...

I do like the idea of having the middle man. My first set which I already received, were two 48v packs (w/ 200a BMS's) I purchased from Treeline Power Systems in Colorado and that transaction went smooth and easy, free shipping, he says they do advance replacement if you ever have a failure, they have three years warranty on components and 7 year performance warranty >80% capacity, preassembled and tested, bring your own case. I haven't had a chance to test them out yet though but I did get them:
www.treelinepowersystems.com

48V 14.3kwh LiFePO4 battery system with BMS (280ah)

www.treelinepowersystems.com

However, for my second purchase, I bought a set raw cells to build a 12v setup from Aliexpress (just ordered a week ago, still in shipment), I purchased them on the faith of the good reviews (hopefully are forthright), but the drum-roll is still going until they show up on the doorstep:
www.aliexpress.com

1167.48US $ 6% OFF|8pcs/lot Lifepo4 3.2v 280ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Cells For 24v 280ah Rv Battery With Bus Bars - Rechargeable Batteries - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com www.aliexpress.com
 
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I like the idea of a middle man too which is one reason I bought my 8 cells from Michael in the group buy thread. My 8 cells cost me around $850.00.
 
The balance for me is this:

The local middleman offers transaction security and delivery efficiency. They can (not all), offer fast remedies if technical problems arise.
This all comes at a considerable financial cost.

The Ali Express has some transaction security, but not what I am totally comfortable with. The delivery takes a very long time, and remedies for technical issues or under performing products seems very limited. For those that are ok with it, you can save a lot of money.

It looks like I did ok on my recent purchase becuase I was not in a hurry and the cells seem to be performing as advertised. Not so sure I would do it again this way - my nerves were on edge the whole time and I am willing to spend money to not worry.

In this particular case, I spent HALF the money compared to the local USA middleman sources. That is a lot of $$$$.
 
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