Alibaba 280ah purchase CONFUSION

[gmoylan]

Hi all,
I ve put in months of research into reading all the posts on this and other forums regarding purchasing true grade A 280ah prismatic Lifepo4 cells for a Motorhome build (if that's even possible) through Alibaba platform. Ive spoke to the majority of the top 10 suppliers by sales volume and generally talking to verified suppliers. Also spoken to the wonderful Amy @ Luyuan at length. She is a breath of fresh air.!
My findings thus far;
Several suppliers online are offering grade a 280ah cells EVE, CATL ETC.

All of them say they are new 280ah cells, all of them suggest that they balance them with internal resistance and Voltage. Some of them say they match capacity before sending.
All suppliers mention QR codes are entact.
Only one supplier suggests they buy in NEW batched cells in quantities of 16 direct from manufacturer, so they can be sold in 4s, 8s 16s configurations. Which have sequential QR codes.

Yet the price varies from $60—$150. This is so confusing. ?
WHERE DOES ONE GO FROM HERE?
It's obvious the majority are not Grade A. But are there some at the higher price range. Or can they only be sought direct from manufacturers at the appropriate price.?

Does any of this even matter?
Am I getting hooked up on the minutiae of it all? Iam an engineer and very data driven but should I be worried about whether they are A or B grade. If B grade means great value but a few less Amp hours is this a good compromise?

Some expert advise would be well received.

 

[Landandsea]

Did you ask Amy those exact questions?

I'm looking for 4 x 280Ah cells also to make an energy store for my camper. Agreed that is very confusing!

 

[gmoylan]

In case any of you missed Amy's recent post that helps answer some of the mis information out there.
Post in thread 'Introducing the New & Improved Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co.' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/i...enzhen-luyuan-technology-co.15880/post-188599

 

[Steve_S]

Simply put, I am quite a Curmudgeon and will not support anyone / anything that is full of hooey. My crustiness is simply a result of being Terminal with cancer and no longer having patience for stupid or miscreants. You KNOW... I REALLY get why 80+ year old folks are Crusty, they know tomorrow may not come... I know I have <3 years, more likely <2 actually.

I obviously Support & help Amy Wan @ Luyuan, she is one of the RARE FEW Honourables who does right by herself, her clients and her business, She & Her Husband OWN Luyuan Tech now.

Unlike most Vendors & resellers out there, she has Directly Contracted with EVE, Catl etc and will no longer use ANY Battery Broker's like other vendors do. The prebuilt batteries they are setting up for sale are being assembled by a large Battery Pack Facility that does EV, LEV & ESS Packs and they have all the expensive hardware & testing rigs and facilities for it... Not some dudes in a small warehouse somewhere.

The Matched cells are of course more costly BUT not as much as it could be because this is done at the Manufacturers Facility prior to shipping to Luyuan. The alternative would be to send all cells for validation & testing to a 3rd part and that would add 50% above the bulk cost.

It's your money & your choice...
$118 USD for Matched & Batched versus $91 USD for Bulk Commodity cells. It's a Damn good deal, but some just don't want to get it.

Last Point, see this link for clarity on what Vendors are doing.

STATUS of ESS/Storage Cells being purchased. (commodity cells)

Introduction: I posted this into a response and felt that this should have its own thread as a point of clarification. There has been much debate, discusion and even theories, conjecture & postulation. All of this creates confusion due to many perceived points, real or otherwise. This is by...

diysolarforum.com

Other links in my signature may also be of assistance.
Good Luck, Hope it Helps.
Steve_S

 

[gmoylan]

Simply put, I am quite a Curmudgeon and will not support anyone / anything that is full of hooey. My crustiness is simply a result of being Terminal with cancer and no longer having patience for stupid or miscreants. You KNOW... I REALLY get why 80+ year old folks are Crusty, they know tomorrow may not come... I know I have <3 years, more likely <2 actually.

I obviously Support & help Amy Wan @ Luyuan, she is one of the RARE FEW Honourables who does right by herself, her clients and her business, She & Her Husband OWN Luyuan Tech now.

Unlike most Vendors & resellers out there, she has Directly Contracted with EVE, Catl etc and will no longer use ANY Battery Broker's like other vendors do. The prebuilt batteries they are setting up for sale are being assembled by a large Battery Pack Facility that does EV, LEV & ESS Packs and they have all the expensive hardware & testing rigs and facilities for it... Not some dudes in a small warehouse somewhere.

The Matched cells are of course more costly BUT not as much as it could be because this is done at the Manufacturers Facility prior to shipping to Luyuan. The alternative would be to send all cells for validation & testing to a 3rd part and that would add 50% above the bulk cost.

It's your money & your choice...
$118 USD for Matched & Batched versus $91 USD for Bulk Commodity cells. It's a Damn good deal, but some just don't want to get it.

Last Point, see this link for clarity on what Vendors are doing.

STATUS of ESS/Storage Cells being purchased. (commodity cells)

Introduction: I posted this into a response and felt that this should have its own thread as a point of clarification. There has been much debate, discusion and even theories, conjecture & postulation. All of this creates confusion due to many perceived points, real or otherwise. This is by...

diysolarforum.com

Other links in my signature may also be of assistance.
Good Luck, Hope it Helps.
Steve_S

Steve, it's my pleasure to be acquainted online, if I am honest I had hoped you would pass comment. As I have been brought up in a Frank, and 'tell it how it is' household your crustiness as you put it, is not a bad thing. I am sorry to hear of your personal situation and wish you only the best.
P. S I had already read your link, which is incredibly helpful and formed the basis of most of my questions to the suppliers on Alibaba.
Thanks again ?

 

[Steve_S]

I could easily say even more BUT I have several NDA's (Non-Disclosure Agreements) so that's a throttle but not too terribly bad, sadly pisses some off. I'm okay with my leaky boat, it's a relief actually, long story. I relate practical experience & knowledge to help folks in the Real World do Real Things hoping they won't get phookered on the way by "Armchair Geniuses". BTW: the Curmudgeon definition in old English not that Alternate English some use.

EDIT: a Curmudgeonly addition.
I have said it before on a few posts and will repeat it yet again.
Many people offer what appears to be good advice & suggestions. Every "Reader" must use Critical Thinking and Common Sense with a measure of healthy caution. When someone piles a bunch of info "about how great they do things and have stuff setup as" but has NO "About my System Page" with real descriptions, links to products they Actually Use and Photo's & Diagrams of their gear, then Drag Out the COW-LICK Promptly ! Take it with a 10KG Salt Block before accepting it.

I've seen some extremely terrible & idiotic things suggested by folks to other who go off & do it and end up with a pile of useless junk. THAT really pisses folks off as you can well imagine. Believe NOTHING, Question Everything and Consider it all logically, rationally and without emotional engagement.

The single worst, at people who see a video or some links, don't know what any of it is and do not understand, who then go off and buy a pile of "stuff" and then show up here with "I bought this, that and the other thing, so how can I make it power my shole house for 5 days ? " They are the worst to deal with and I do not even attempt to look at any of that... not much point, it's a tremendous amount of hassle....

 

[gmoylan]

I could easily say even more BUT I have several NDA's (Non-Disclosure Agreements) so that's a throttle but not too terribly bad, sadly pisses some off. I'm okay with my leaky boat, it's a relief actually, long story. I relate practical experience & knowledge to help folks in the Real World do Real Things hoping they won't get phookered on the way by "Armchair Geniuses". BTW: the Curmudgeon definition in old English not that Alternate English some use.

EDIT: a Curmudgeonly addition.
I have said it before on a few posts and will repeat it yet again.
Many people offer what appears to be good advice & suggestions. Every "Reader" must use Critical Thinking and Common Sense with a measure of healthy caution. When someone piles a bunch of info "about how great they do things and have stuff setup as" but has NO "About my System Page" with real descriptions, links to products they Actually Use and Photo's & Diagrams of their gear, then Drag Out the COW-LICK Promptly ! Take it with a 10KG Salt Block before accepting it.

I've seen some extremely terrible & idiotic things suggested by folks to other who go off & do it and end up with a pile of useless junk. THAT really pisses folks off as you can well imagine. Believe NOTHING, Question Everything and Consider it all logically, rationally and without emotional engagement.

The single worst, at people who see a video or some links, don't know what any of it is and do not understand, who then go off and buy a pile of "stuff" and then show up here with "I bought this, that and the other thing, so how can I make it power my shole house for 5 days ? " They are the worst to deal with and I do not even attempt to look at any of that... not much point, it's a tremendous amount of hassle....

Steve, I have the perfect avatar for you. ?

 

[gmoylan]

Or if you prefer the british angle

 

[Steve_S]

If I wanted to use a British Avatar it would be Benny Hill or my Favourite Doctor "Tom Baker".
My avatar as it is, is on my house ! That is about 1.5m across at the peak on the front of the house.
Yes, my house is clad in Live Edge White Cedar, that's no fooley.

 

[gmoylan]

I thought this was a helpful insight into grade A and B cells for folks that are interested. It's put together by a local trying to educate westerners about battery tech. The company is called Seplos and have a YouTube channel with other useful resource videos. Also posted by dzl on another thread.

 

[Terrapin]

I thought this was a helpful insight into grade A and B cells for folks that are interested. It's put together by a local trying to educate westerners about battery tech. The company is called Seplos and have a YouTube channel with other useful resource videos. Also posted by dzl on another thread.

Sir, I just watched this video. I am one of those people who are just starting out and have been relying mostly on Will's videos recommendations for my 1st DIY 12v 4S. As with most like me it's pretty easy to gather up decent hardware to meet my needs, a small 20' Camping Trailer that I need up and running for spring.

But on sourcing the cells it's very foggy. I finally just tossed in the towel and went with the assmuption that Grade B cells were fine and just going to be short on capacity, life, or visually marred. .

Long story short, I just cancelled my Alibaba order. In my vibrating application seeing how they are manufactured and how layers serrated edges can have damaging affects on each other was it for me. No way am I going to use B...C? rated cells as my one and only. I don't gamble, cuz I ain't lucky.

I am back to not knowing where to turn next & I know it will cost more. But I am glad I pulled the plug.

 

[gmoylan]

Personally, I wouldn't take any single view in isolation on this or any other forum. Put the research in and that's the best you can ask.
It seems lots of people are buying from Alibaba with great success and the cells are working well. Wills youtube channel has tested several B grade cells that are still pulling full capacity if not very close. There are many reasons that cells can be out of spec or on the edge of tolerance for a manufacturer to sell to OEM's. So the ones that are out of tolerance go to the aftermarket, via Alibaba inter alia. Nonetheless, We have to ask ourselves what is our goal. If we want certainty and quality from cells then that's an easy fix buy direct from the manufacturers as they are also listed on Alibaba, but they obviously charge a premium for perfect matched and batched cells. Alternatively opt for hugely discounted cells and take a small calculated risk on them being slightly under capacity. Which, the more research I do, seems to be an acceptable option, for a DIY motorhome/solar build. Realistically what does a few amp hours here and there really matter when you sitting in you RV enjoying a cold beer. Once you've built your system you should need to worry anymore.

Hope this helps

 

[Terrapin]

Yep. but pumping the breaks on this one was the way to go for me. I have been robbed of PayPal refunds because a seller simply did not pick up a returned item I had to pay shipment to return to china. That was only about a $60 dollar loss but the idea of trying to get customer support or a refund was eating at me anyways. This just illuminated how exactly things could go south. I am likely going to pay about 100 bucks more for the exact same cells, delivered faster through a fleabay purchase. I can definitely get a refund for simply proving return shipping took place if any of the cells are not up to par. Like I said. I ain't lucky. Or I may even spend a bit extra and seee if I can find those Fortune cells. They look very sturdy for RV use. Either way to me the added cost is like buying insurance... You pay for it hoping you never use it. But thanks for the well wishes.

 

[Pyke13]

Yep. but pumping the breaks on this one was the way to go for me. I have been robbed of PayPal refunds because a seller simply did not pick up a returned item I had to pay shipment to return to china. That was only about a $60 dollar loss but the idea of trying to get customer support or a refund was eating at me anyways. This just illuminated how exactly things could go south. I am likely going to pay about 100 bucks more for the exact same cells, delivered faster through a fleabay purchase. I can definitely get a refund for simply proving return shipping took place if any of the cells are not up to par. Like I said. I ain't lucky. Or I may even spend a bit extra and seee if I can find those Fortune cells. They look very sturdy for RV use. Either way to me the added cost is like buying insurance... You pay for it hoping you never use it. But thanks for the well wishes.

Do you have a link to the eBay add? Any I’ve found are a lot more than £100 more than from China.

 

[Terrapin]

Lets just say I paid twice that much more. It was likely someone you've already seen there. But you have to understand my luck and the timing. I will not have time to deal with a may or later delivery. Trips are already booked for April and May...Waiting was not an option. So my decision was based on building a 280ah battery in time or vs a 100ah well built batteries at Battleborn pricing (I waited and watched SOK, but gave up)... As for luck, I would be the guy who would receive the undrilled untapped cells. ...Yes, I paid a massive premium based on the ebay guarantee to buyers as well. As it turns out one of the lot of cells he bought from the S. Basin was bad, yep that would have been me. So I Pd for more most will for the cells, by far... But It was actually from someone who is on here, I had a hunch on that and mentioned it during negotiations so I got a break off the advertised price. Hopefully he'll be willing to help out with questions I can't get help on here as well.