All-in-one MMP system manual says: AC breaker must be installed, but nobody installs it?

[sepiot]

'MMP (Iconica in UK) Hybrid 3000W 24V pure sine wave inverter'
" I would need a 32A AC breaker for the AC input of my system, according to the manual."
Can you provide us the user manual and the spec of the unit?
You are in UK which is 230VAC 50Hz system, so 32A breaker does not sound right for 3000W system.

Manual attached. On page 8 it says:
The recommended spec of AC breaker is 10A
for 1KVA, 20A for 2KVA, 32A for 3KVA/3KVA Plus and 50A for 5KVA.

Hybrid inverter specifications:

• Nominal battery voltage: 24V
• Continuous power output: 3000W / 3000VA
• Surge power: 6000VA
• Output voltage: 230V AC
• Output frequency: 50Hz /60 Hz
• Output waveform: Pure sine wave
• Maximum solar input power: 1500W
• Maximum open circuit solar input voltage: 145V
• Maximum solar charging current: 60A
• MPPT operating voltage range: 30V – 115V
• Maximum mains AC charging current: 60A
• Maximum combined charging current: 120A
• Peak efficiency: 93%
• Operating temperature: -10C to 50C
• Supplied with a PC connection cable and PC software CD
• Terminals for mains power connection
• Size: 44 x 30 x 10 cm
• Weight: 9.5 kg

 

[sepiot]

I use Dual VAC Input Inverter/Charger (Tier-1 Samlex). 1 AC Line is for Grid Supplied, 2nd AC line is for genset AC.
Each AC Line per spec must have an appropriately sized AC Breaker BEFORE entry to the Inverter.
The AC Line Out also goes to a Breaker and then to the Subpanel feed.
This is all per Manufacturer specs and Samlex is extremely well documented for all scenarios and possibilities.

I have installed several and helped design many systems. These are all Non-Mobile systems. 1st Lesson Learned long long ago, NEVER EVER trust any breakers supplied within equipment, a proper High Quality breaker is the correct solution.

I see the "Extension" cord thing and it makes me shudder, even when it is just for a quick visual, some folks get the wrong idea and believe such is acceptable which it is NOT. Not one single solitary Electrical Inspector would ever allow that to pass in any way. BTW: Some Electrical Inspectors WILL look for input & output breakers between the Inverter/Charger/AIO and will insist on such.

Hope it helps, Good Luck

Thanks, yes looks like AC breakers In & Out are a must.

 

[sepiot]

You could remove the outlet and put a pass thru cover on it. That will allow the inverters wire to be wire nutted or wago connected inside the outlet box which is now a junction box. I would make sure there’s no other loads that are getting their power from the circuit the inverter is connected to. Most of the time 12gauge is used for outlets (possibly 14gauge) so make sure that’s thick enough for your inverters output.
Just read you need 30+ amps to go thru the inverters wires. You will need at least 10awg wire so you will probably have to run wire from the inverter directly to a 30+ amp breaker. If you havnt done it before than an electrician will assist you

That's very helpful, thanks! I'll look into what I can diy and the rest I'll delegate to the electrician for sure.

 

[sepiot]

Don't hard wire anything into the circuitry of your S&B !
You already have a breaker on the outlet of a S&B if that is what you are plugging the charger into. An additional breaker is not needed but will not exactly hurt. Breakers and fuses protect wires, not equipment. Some devices have internal fuses. Those protect the wires inside the device.
Using an extension cord on the inverter outlet is fine as long as the cord can handle the required power over the distance needed. I do that with my Microwave in the camper.

OK, sorry, I think I have been using the term' inverter' for the whole AIO unit, and this can be confusing as there also a charger and many other parts/functions inside the AIO unit.
I am also not sure what S&B means! So not sure what you mean. I have a breaker in the house, and a breaker in the outbuilding, which feeds the wall outlet (that has a fuse) to which I wanted to connect the AIO unit. People are recommending I add another AC breaker just before the AIO's AC input. And , to be on the safe side, perhaps breaker on the AC out, although some like you use an extension cord. Correct?

 

[Zil]

S&B, stick and brick, a house, a building. Not a vehicle or boat. Remember I am in the USA and not familiar with Europe.
So you want to plug in? then the wall outlet must have breaker and wiring enough to meet the power required of the inverter/charger.
If you plan to hard wire, I recommend installing a proper wire to the breaker panel in the outbuilding. Not good to make a hard wire connection to an existing wall-outlet

 

[sepiot]

S&B, stick and brick, a house, a building. Not a vehicle or boat. Remember I am in the USA and not familiar with Europe.
So you want to plug in? then the wall outlet must have breaker and wiring enough to meet the power required of the inverter/charger.
If you plan to hard wire, I recommend installing a proper wire to the breaker panel in the outbuilding. Not good to make a hard wire connection to an existing wall-outlet

Ah I see!
Sure, it feels a bit overkill having two AC breakers in the outbuilding (not counting the one on the AC out from the AIO), where I could just connect the AIO AC input directly to the existing AC breaker in the outbuilding. More expense on wire, but no need to get a new AC breaker then. Cheers

 

[iamrich]

Keep in mind on most AIO units you can limit the incoming AC value. If you set the value to 10a for instance, almost any general use breaker protected circuit could supply the power. My MPP Solar LV2424 will goes as low as 2a AC input (120v) which I would have no issue plugging into a regular use outlet temporarily.

 

[mrzed001]

Keep in mind on most AIO units you can limit the incoming AC value. If you set the value to 10a for instance, almost any general use breaker protected circuit could supply the power. My MPP Solar LV2424 will goes as low as 2a AC input (120v) which I would have no issue plugging into a regular use outlet temporarily.

I think you reference the "11 - Maximum utility charging current" menu point
But it is only limiting battery charging from AC.
In bypass mode AC_in is connected directly to AC_out (so to the load).
So better you have a breaker before the AC_in, and one after the AC_out

 

[iamrich]

I think you reference the "11 - Maximum utility charging current" menu point
But it is only limiting battery charging from AC.
In bypass mode AC_in is connected directly to AC_out (so to the load).
So better you have a breaker before the AC_in, and one after the AC_out


View attachment 95049

Interesting. I have bypass disabled, so I was under the assumption that would prevent the AIO from pulling more power from the circuit.

 

[mrzed001]

Interesting. I have bypass disabled, so I was under the assumption that would prevent the AIO from pulling more power from the circuit.

Only if you use a MK double conversion unit
(separate AC/DC charger and DC/AC inverter)
Even there I am not sure

Here bypass disable only disables the switch to utility ... if overload in battery mode.

 

[2Vets]

Don't hard wire anything into the circuitry of your S&B !
You already have a breaker on the outlet of a S&B if that is what you are plugging the charger into. An additional breaker is not needed but will not exactly hurt. Breakers and fuses protect wires, not equipment. Some devices have internal fuses. Those protect the wires inside the device.
Using an extension cord on the inverter outlet is fine as long as the cord can handle the required power over the distance needed. I do that with my Microwave in the camper.

You are talking about plugging "ONE" thing into a 3k that only draws around 1k +-. We are talking about output to a panel that has several breakers that go to this that or the other. A breaker is needed to feed all that because when you run the inverter over its limits for a period of time it will blow the inverter. 12 guage extension cord is "NOT" rated to handle 3000 watts. The breaker will limit the watts/amps that can be "demanded" from the load to keep your AIO from burning up.
Added: Another thing is Breakers protecting wires only is crazy. Lets say you have no breaker, plugged into what ever and there is a short, now grab that item and see what happens! Only one tenth of an amp on the current side can kill a person.

 

[iamrich]

Only if you use a MK double conversion unit
(separate AC/DC charger and DC/AC inverter)
Even there I am not sure

Here bypass disable only disables the switch to utility ... if overload in battery mode.

I have the hybrid LV2424 and currently it is not even connected to AC in, but I thought the maximum utility charging would limit what the unit would pull. Thank you for the insight, I will not be hooking it up to an outlet

 

[Bud Martin]

I have 1212MK (80 solar charger and 60A utility charger), when in true bypass mode (AC in goes directly to AC out), I cannot pull more that 600W on the AC out of the MK if I try to charge the my batteries at 60A at the same time, my AC wall outlet 15A breaker will pop.