All-in-one system or individual components for expedition truck

[Hr.brenner]

hello
I am in the process of planning the electrification of my expedition camper truck. The main parameters are 4 solar panels, total about 1600 Wp, 24V system, and 3 to 3.5KW 240V inverter.



The reason I am posting here is, because I don't have enough information to make a decision about the main electrical components (MPPT, charger, inverter). Actually, I don't want to spend money unnecessarily and don't want to look for the over the top solution. I am sure Victron has great products and I can understand why it is so widely used. but on the other hand, I see people spending a lot of money to have the top end solution which very often is just not necessary. something in the middle would be my approach. So I have been thinking of the Growatt SPF 3000 ES 24V all inone inverter.

The drawbacks I have read so far are overall efficiency and noise. The spec says 93% for the inverter, noise is not mentioned. Weather the fan is constantly on or only when the inverter is working.

What is your suggestion or does anyone have experience with an all-in-one device?



Thank you very much

Ralph

 

[sunshine_eggo]

MPPT:
1600W/24V = 67A, i.e., you need a MPPT capable of outputting 67A to ensure you can capture all your solar.

Given that you'll rarely every pull the full 67A, a 60A would work too.

It's not just efficiency outright. Those are usually fine, but efficiency only speaks to how efficient a conversion is. What isn't taken into consideration is the unit's power consumption.

That unit will burn 60Ah @ 24V in 24 hours just by being turned on - no loads. They do have a power saving mode, but that's only useful if you truly have ZERO AC loads of any kind - nothing that needs power. If something needs AC power, the unit must be on and consuming juice.

Some of the MPP Solar/Growatt unit fans run 24/7 even with no loads.

It's also about reliability. It's rare that you hear about DOA or malfunction issues on Tier 1 products unless they're 20+ years old, but you don't have to look hard to find folks having issues with Growatt/MPP Solar.

Lastly, high frequency inverters of any kind do NOT have a meaningful surge. They may say 2X their run power as a surge rating, but that's typically for only 20ms. Yes, 20 milliseconds.

Are they bad? No. Do you get what you pay for with Tier 1? Yes.

 

[Hr.brenner]

Hi. Thank you for your feedback and your opinion.
I was not aware that the Growatt 3000 with 50A Maximum Solar Charge Current is not fully capable to handle 1600 Wp solar. That is definitely an argument not to use this device.
The inverter would not continuously be running, just for cooking and air conditioning, so when the efficiency is acceptable, that would be ok.
Reliability is of course, a topic, that's the other reason why i ask here for experience people have with all.in one devices.

.. i am just looking for cheaper alternatives, but fully understand the benefits of e.g. Victron

 

[PerryB67]

There is no free lunch!

We've had cheaper and there is a reason they are cheaper. We're in this game for the long haul and found out earlier that Tier 1 equipment is cheaper for the long haul. I want electrical history to help find a problem when one crops up, and one eventually will crop up.

Our first battery failure took a number of days to finally realize at least one battery was shot (it had been dropped in shipping to us but we didn't know and it took 90 days for a lead plate to drop). Two years later our second battery got 21 v sent to it from the WFCO. We had installed a Victron 712 battery monitor right after the first battery failure and it took but seconds to look at the history and see the 21 v. I reset the history and shut off the WFCO, nothing wrong, I then shut off the SCC and five minutes into charging with the WFCO, but no solar, went to 21v.

The WFCO charger has been disconnected since that battery failure last January and with our solar, and style of camping, don't miss it.

Besides the Victron battery monitor (not to be confused with the Alibaba battery monitor that looks the same but provides no history), we have a Victron 100/20 for our 100 watt portable, and changed out our GoPower SCC, that also gives no history, to a Victron 100/30 for our 465 watts of roof solar.

I spent $60,000 for my F150 (that's with $14,000 off list for a end of year model), and have another $45,000 in our camper. I could afford an extra $2-300 for our Victron equipment vs cheaper models.

I'm writing this as I'm sitting at our non-electric site, drinking coffee inside, waiting to make toast, because at 17 F we're not ready to go outside.

We did not purchase a Victron inverter, but a 1500w GoWise inverter recommended by Will Prowse. We only use it for toast, and it's only wired to our kitchen. We don't have or want a microwave, and have a wonderful Dickinson gas stovetop. We mainly camp where there are no services.

Pay me now, or pay me later! Your choice.

Enjoy,

Perry

 

[Hr.brenner]

Hi Perry, thank you for your comment and enjoy your coffee

ok, i guess i am convinced not to go for a all in one device and individual well selected ones are a better option. I still dont think that victron is the only choice. it seems that i have to investigate a lot of time to find alternative products with good reviews.

i am grateful for inspiration

 

[Zwy]

Hi. Thank you for your feedback and your opinion.
I was not aware that the Growatt 3000 with 50A Maximum Solar Charge Current is not fully capable to handle 1600 Wp solar. That is definitely an argument not to use this device.
The inverter would not continuously be running, just for cooking and air conditioning, so when the efficiency is acceptable, that would be ok.
Reliability is of course, a topic, that's the other reason why i ask here for experience people have with all.in one devices.

.. i am just looking for cheaper alternatives, but fully understand the benefits of e.g. Victron

I have a thread where I built my TC using a GW 24V all in one. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/heres-my-truck-camper-setup.29488/ My inverter draws 1.3A at 24V when it is turned on and idling. I installed a remote switch and just turn it off when I'm not using it such as at night. As for PV input, panels in series will keep the amps down. As for the GW 24V units, this https://watts247.com/product/spf-3000tl-lvm-24p/ must be the one you're referring to as a Growatt SPF 3000 ES is 48V.

At max operating 115V PV array in series and 1600w solar, depending on panel voltage this unit will easily handle the input. The unit is rated for 2000w PV input. At 2000w and 115V PV voltage, that comes to 18 amps. Even if your PV voltage was half that, it would be 36 amps.

As this is an expedition vehicle, more info is required. What is intended usage, what will you use for refrigeration, air conditioning requirements, chassis used and custom made living quarters? The GW I have will handle my roof air but I'm installing a mini split to cut down load, as for refrigeration, 24V DC compressor model would be highly recommended. I mainly use a Dometic CFX95 AC/DC with split freezer/fridge for main usage. I hardly use the 3 way and may replace it with a 24V DC model or simply use a 120V AC unit with a small dedicated inverter. Chassis considerations help, I'm currently installing a 2200w DC to AC inverter in the back seat of my dual alternator equipped truck to provide not only backup power source but also transfer a huge amount of watts to the GW for charging.

I did everything many will tell you not to do including using a Daly BMS, 24V to 12V converter (720w) and a GW unit. But it works just fine. Only problem I had was in low light conditions the SCC would power up the unit and then shut back down when PV amps output was low. A switch solved that where I shut off PV in the shop. My best advice is to seek out those that have experience with units like this and make an informed decision based upon budget and needs.

 

[time2roll]

My preference is separate components. If one component fails the rest continues to work. That failed component is easier to diagnose and replace in the field with something available locally.

 

[Zwy]

My preference is separate components. If one component fails the rest continues to work. That failed component is easier to diagnose and replace in the field with something available locally.

That's why I asked about usage for the expedition vehicle.

But even with separate components, you still might have a system that can't operate. I'm adding an inverter on the truck for redundancy. If the vehicle is 12V or 24V, it also makes sense to have many loads in that voltage, no inverter operation necessary.

 

[time2roll]

My primary concern is the inverter/charger/transfer switch/solar controller. If the board quits it can all stop.

Separate components you just lose one function. Also when all this is tied together to communicate and coordinate you get stuck with one brand.

 

[PerryB67]

Hi Perry, thank you for your comment and enjoy your coffee

ok, i guess i am convinced not to go for a all in one device and individual well selected ones are a better option. I still dont think that victron is the only choice. it seems that i have to investigate a lot of time to find alternative products with good reviews.

i am grateful for inspiration

The main reasons we chose Victron was bluetooth, i.e. I can watch the charging as I'm driving down the road and if you have the BMV 712 our BMV 712, 100/20 SCC and 100/30 SCC, they all work together giving greater control and reliability.

Enjoy,

Perry

 

[sunshine]

I am in the process of planning the electrification of my expedition camper truck.

1) An inverter to charge your phones, laptop ... 1000w pure sine wave $100-$200 same voltage as your van battery. You may get one bigger if you wish. Doesn't matter with the newer HF ones, the stand bye current is very similar and the larger one may be able to start the odd power tool.
2)4 solar panels, total about 1600 Wp...CC or CCs....you need to work back from the Voc, Imax and battery V and various PV combinations. Sometimes it is more economical to spread the load over a number of CCs to keep well within the CC rating. Epever?
3) Aux batteries. 1) & 2) can run with just the starter battery but workout how long you wish to run the fridge on solar input alone to determine how much to spend on aux batteries, Same V as van V.
4) Something to connect the starter battery to the aux batteries. Depends on your ability and how much you want to spend beyond just a wire and manual disconnect.

Obviously I don't see the need for a all in one.

 

[time2roll]

#1). I use 300 watt for that and is probably double what is needed for my use. Phones and pads charge direct from the battery with USB adapter.