Alternator + Regulator Upgrade Tying into Solar, Wind, 110AC, more...

[jenjt]

Hello Gang,
I am in the process of upgrading my alternator and regulator on my sailboat, and I ALMOST pulled the plug on 100% balmar setup (alternator, regulator, display, bluetooth), until I found some posts on this site that swayed me a bit toward Victron/Wakespeed and now here I am with questions...

Here's my existing setup:

• Perkins 4.108 50hp
• 70A alternator (from Graham Auto)
• Silver Bullet regulator
• QuadCycle (from Cruising Equipment Co.) acting as Amp-Hour monitor and a charge regulator
• 4 6v Lead Acid Batteries (technically 2 banks of 12v, but I always run them on BOTH with the battery selector switch so it's just the 1 house bank at 12V)
• Xantrex TrueCharge 2 shore power charger
• 3 solar panels, each with their own Victron MPPT controller
• 1 wind-generator with it's own controller
• WattWizard display showing solar/wind
• Raymarine A-97 MFD
• Dedicated PC laptop onboard.

Here's where I think we're heading, keeping in mind that in a couple of years, we'll jump from Lead Acid to Lith-Ion, so I don't want to get anything new now that I'll have to throw out in a few years.

• Upgrade to 100A alternator. I'm eyeing the Balmar 6-Series 100A Dual Vee, but I am totally open to suggestions.
• Upgrade to the Wakespeed WS-500 regulator
• Pull out the QuadCycle system all together
• Add the Victron Cerbo GX, using the inputs for my solar, wind, water tank levels)
• Use NEMA2000 or MFDHTML5 to display all data on my Raymarine MFD.

Questions:
1. Do I need a BMS at this point? Or does that only come in with the LithIon changeover?
2. Do I need a DC-DC smart charger? For what?
3. How many smart-shunts are needed in this setup?
4. With the dedicated laptop, would you skip the inevitable NMEA <-> Raymarine headache? Or, would you toss all that and get the GX Touch?
5. I'm assuming I'd pull out the watt wizard at this point? As it's redundant with the CerboGX
6. Am I on the right track???? Missing anything???

Cheers,
Jen

 

[svsagres]

Here's where I think we're heading, keeping in mind that in a couple of years, we'll jump from Lead Acid to Lith-Ion, so I don't want to get anything new now that I'll have to throw out in a few years.

• Upgrade to 100A alternator. I'm eyeing the Balmar 6-Series 100A Dual Vee, but I am totally open to suggestions.
• Upgrade to the Wakespeed WS-500 regulator
• Pull out the QuadCycle system all together
• Add the Victron Cerbo GX, using the inputs for my solar, wind, water tank levels)
• Use NEMA2000 or MFDHTML5 to display all data on my Raymarine MFD.

Questions:
1. Do I need a BMS at this point? Or does that only come in with the LithIon changeover?
2. Do I need a DC-DC smart charger? For what?
3. How many smart-shunts are needed in this setup?
4. With the dedicated laptop, would you skip the inevitable NMEA <-> Raymarine headache? Or, would you toss all that and get the GX Touch?
5. I'm assuming I'd pull out the watt wizard at this point? As it's redundant with the CerboGX
6. Am I on the right track???? Missing anything???

Cheers,
Jen

If you see yourself transitioning over to a Victron/LiFePO4 system, then this upgrade is worth while.

1. You do not need a BMS at this point, those are specifically required for the care and feeding of LiFePO4 battery banks.
2. You do not need a DC:DC smart charger at this point, assuming all your batteries are the same chemistry. If you have a separate starter battery or thruster/windlass battery, those can be currently handled by combiners.
3. I would just put one smart shunt on your main house bank (or one each, if you have two).
4. If you're going to eventually go "all-in" on Victron, the Cerbo GX/GX Touch is a very slick tool. This is especially true if you add a Victron Inverter/Charger
5. Technically speaking, the WattWizard becomes redundant due to the Smart Shunt, but yeah I wouldn't bother with it any more.

The real power of the system is going to come when you make the transition to Lithium Batteries, But the equipment you list above is a good way to future proof yourself. As far as the Alternator goes, there are other alternator options as well. I'm sure other folks here can chime in on it.

 

[jenjt]

Thanks svAgres! I'm really interested to hear about alternator options as well. I do know that pushing into the 100A territory puts us into double pulley or serpentine. We'd like to avoid mucking with the engine at this point, so are leaning double pulley. We're single foot, 1-2". However, I'm all ears on brands.

 

[kgol]

[...]
Here's where I think we're heading, keeping in mind that in a couple of years, we'll jump from Lead Acid to Lith-Ion, so I don't want to get anything new now that I'll have to throw out in a few years.

• Upgrade to 100A alternator. I'm eyeing the Balmar 6-Series 100A Dual Vee, but I am totally open to suggestions.

If you can get it to fit: a Leece-Neville 'firetruck' alternator on a serpentine belt. Lots of amps, quite efficient and affordable yet large and heavy.

• Upgrade to the Wakespeed WS-500 regulator

A nice regulator, one of the better ones on the market because it can limit current effectively.

• Pull out the QuadCycle system all together
• Add the Victron Cerbo GX, using the inputs for my solar, wind, water tank levels)
• Use NEMA2000 or MFDHTML5 to display all data on my Raymarine MFD.

Questions:
1. Do I need a BMS at this point? Or does that only come in with the LithIon changeover?

No, but thinking about which BMS for lithium batteries you'll go with might be relevant.

2. Do I need a DC-DC smart charger? For what?

The Wakespeed allows LFP batteries to be charged directly with the alternator; no DC-DC necessary. A small DC-DC from the house to the start batteries may be useful.

3. How many smart-shunts are needed in this setup?

Usually only one in the house battery bank negative. It is used for the SOC calculation. You can install more SmartShunts but I'm afraid the Victron system only supports one. If you want a dedicated display for SOC, then a BMV-712 Smart might be preferable. The BMV also adds a relay output. Some LFP BMSs (e.g. REC BMS) already include functionality similar to the BMV.

4. With the dedicated laptop, would you skip the inevitable NMEA <-> Raymarine headache? Or, would you toss all that and get the GX Touch?

I would skip the chartplotter and NMEA integration because I don't really see the advantage, but if you really want to see your battery SOC on your chartplotter etc., definitely go for that. From a redundancy perspective I prefer to keep the systems as simple as possible. The value of the GX Touch when there's already a dedicated laptop (that can log in into the Cerbo) appears limited to me.

5. I'm assuming I'd pull out the watt wizard at this point? As it's redundant with the CerboGX

I'm not familiar with the watt wizard. If it's an SOC estimator, the SOC estimation is unlikely to work well with LFP batteries. Perhaps it can be used/repurposed as a voltage and/or current monitor, for example to measure the wind generator output.

6. Am I on the right track???? Missing anything???

No worries, looks good! PS Have you read the MarineHowTo and Nordkyn articles?

 

[jenjt]

If you can get it to fit: a Leece-Neville 'firetruck' alternator on a serpentine belt. Lots of amps, quite efficient and affordable yet large and heavy.

A nice regulator, one of the better ones on the market because it can limit current effectively.

No, but thinking about which BMS for lithium batteries you'll go with might be relevant.

The Wakespeed allows LFP batteries to be charged directly with the alternator; no DC-DC necessary. A small DC-DC from the house to the start batteries may be useful.

Usually only one in the house battery bank negative. It is used for the SOC calculation. You can install more SmartShunts but I'm afraid the Victron system only supports one. If you want a dedicated display for SOC, then a BMV-712 Smart might be preferable. The BMV also adds a relay output. Some LFP BMSs (e.g. REC BMS) already include functionality similar to the BMV.

I would skip the chartplotter and NMEA integration because I don't really see the advantage, but if you really want to see your battery SOC on your chartplotter etc., definitely go for that. From a redundancy perspective I prefer to keep the systems as simple as possible. The value of the GX Touch when there's already a dedicated laptop (that can log in into the Cerbo) appears limited to me.

I'm not familiar with the watt wizard. If it's an SOC estimator, the SOC estimation is unlikely to work well with LFP batteries. Perhaps it can be used/repurposed as a voltage and/or current monitor, for example to measure the wind generator output.

No worries, looks good! PS Have you read the MarineHowTo and Nordkyn articles?

SUPER helpful, thanks! I'm not sure I've seen the MarineHowTo and Nordkyn articles you're referring to. Can you link them? (or give me the keywords to find them?) There are a bunch of hits on both.

 

[kgol]

Marine How To - DIY for Boaters - Marine How To

For DIY boaters in an attempt to try and keep the sport as affordable & safe as possible. How To articles for sailboats and powerboats.

marinehowto.com

DIY LiFePO4 Batteries On Boats - Marine How To

DIY LiFePo4 On Boats Last edit;3/26/23:The base of this article was written a number of years ago (2010) but this does not mean the information here is outdated. We have been keeping it updated and have added to it when ever we had the time. This article deals

marinehowto.com

Lithium battery systems | Nordkyn Design

nordkyndesign.com

Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" is also worth a read for anyone diving in boat electrics.

 

[Shinebox]

You're thinking along the right lines as far as Wakespeed and Victron Cerbo setup. I would add that a REC Active BMS would be the last part to make the system perfect, as it will communicate directly with the Wakespeed and the Vicrtron components.
As far as alternators, check out:

Mega Amp GM High Output Alternator

We have developed a high output alternator in a case that is smaller than the early GM 10SI case. The mounting on this alternator is exactly the same as the Delco 10SI, 12SI, and CS-130 cases or we have a 1 pivot ear that is common to AMC and marine use. It has the following benefits...

www.qualitypowerauto.com

That's just a GM version of their custom billet aluminum alternator, but they make a version that will suit whatever your mounting situation is. I have had one of these installed for the past seven years, and it has handled everything that I've thrown at it for about 1/3+ the cost of an equivalent Balmar, Electromax or other "marine" alternator. In my setup with Lithium, I derate the output via the Wakespeed to 70% of the highest output, and that has the alternator running cool and happy continuously.