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Altitude rating on Inverters

Thanks! I had read that one -- some serious snark in there :) I just heard back from Sol-Ark -- a 15k has rated to 10,000 feet -- so I may just go that rate as it's 'plug-and-play' for our setup and full UL making the eventual electrical inspection part of our permit signed off.

Thanks again, all.
Jeff - I'm interested to know what Sol-Ark's response was regarding the 15K being rated to 10,000 ft. Did they say it would work but with derating? Any mention of impact on the warranty? I reached out to them with a similar question since I am looking for a solution for our off-grid home at 9950 ft. They replied asking me to review their attached document on inverter power output derate curves based on ambient temperature conditions. The document also has a paragraph on altitude derating that basically states their inverters were designed to be installed up to 2000m and as altitude increases the derating behavior occurs faster as the air density decreases and heat dissipation of the inverter is weakened. The final sentence states "Please install the inverter according to the installation manual to avoid high inverter temperature." In other words, they didn't really give me a clear answer. Did you get a more definitive response from Sol-Ark? Thanks!
 
Other than from GPS, how would an inverter know what altitude it's running at?
It wouldn't AFAIK. Can an inverter tell the difference between being in a cool basement at 10000ft elevation and a hot, humid garage on the gulf coast. Well maybe, because the one at 10000' one cools better ;) .

Once you have a unit with coatings on the board, the only diff will be cooling efficiency. (And perhaps for low end products, low quality caps or other components having issues with the altitude)
 
Thermal derating should be handled by the inverter.
Sunny Island quote wattage up to 140F (60C)

Continuous AC power at 77°F (25°C) Pnom 5,750 W
Continuous AC power at 104°F (40°C) Pnom 4,700 W
Continuous AC power at 122°F (50°C) Pnom 3,500 W
Continuous AC power at 140°F (60°C) Pnom 2,200 W

"A performance loss of 0.5% per 330 ft (100 m) is to be expected starting at an altitude of 6,560 ft (2,000 m) above MSL."

As for altitude, if it arcs something will fail.

If PV DC is the limiting factor, reduced array voltage might let it operate.
If 120Vrms or 240Vrms AC has the issue, not much you can do about that.

I could hope the 120V US Sunny Island has spacing to support 230V European model, but when hardware was modified they may not have maintained it.

"Please contact SMA before using the device at altitudes above 9,840 ft (3,000 m)."

So it's an open question.
 
Jeff - I'm interested to know what Sol-Ark's response was regarding the 15K being rated to 10,000 ft. Did they say it would work but with derating? Any mention of impact on the warranty? I reached out to them with a similar question since I am looking for a solution for our off-grid home at 9950 ft. They replied asking me to review their attached document on inverter power output derate curves based on ambient temperature conditions. The document also has a paragraph on altitude derating that basically states their inverters were designed to be installed up to 2000m and as altitude increases the derating behavior occurs faster as the air density decreases and heat dissipation of the inverter is weakened. The final sentence states "Please install the inverter according to the installation manual to avoid high inverter temperature." In other words, they didn't really give me a clear answer. Did you get a more definitive response from Sol-Ark? Thanks!

Their (Sol-Ark's) response was far from complete -- in fact -- below is the full transcript of my email and their absurdly short reaction. We wound up buying two MidNite 'The Ones' (see the transcript of my question and their response at the bottom) for our use as two Sol-Ark 15's were way more $$ for our needs and I was extremely turned off by many of Sol-Ark's posting history on here....but no doubt a 15k is a nice unit. We also went Midnite to pair with 10 of their 5kwh batteries for easier permitting. Sol-Ark would've been a fortune for Pytes.


Hello,
Our off-grid project will be @ 8,000 Ft elevation (Colorado) -- and despite several AIO's on the market listing an Altitude in their specs -- they simply aren't up to the task (2,000m limit) -- will a Sol-Ark 15 have any issues with this altitude of 2,440m?
Thanks,

Hello Jefferson,

The 15k will work fine at 10,000 ft so the 8,000 Ft or 2,440m will be fine.

MidNite Solar Transcript about altitude:
Hello,
We are considering "the one" for our 100% off-grid location at 8,200 feet elevation in Colorado as the initial pass of the stats appears ideal for our needs.

But what isn't ideal is the 6,500 feet but I was relieved to see it's derated above that vs a hard ceiling. Is this due to a lack of specific testing/listing/cooling for exceeding 6,500 ft altitude or is this a real concern with dielectric breakdown? With a max PV voltage of 600 I can see the concern -- but are the boards conformal coated?
Also -- at 8,200 feet -- what is the % derating? If it matters -- our ambient will be cool -- like really cool -- roughly 60 degrees F year-round and our humidity can be controlled within the space to be near 30% -- or does the unit use only barometric pressure to determine the % of derating?

Please advise.
Jeff
Colorado


Jeff,

The max altitude is from the UL standard that is the elevation UL requires one test to. That said we have no concerns on 10,000 feet as the unit is conformal coated unlike most other AIO’s As for derating you will not see any appreciable amount of derating the real concern as you pointed out is voltage spacing if the unit is not conformal coated.



Ryan
 
Thanks so much for the information Jeff. I was also considering the MidNite Solar AIO so your communication that you shared is especially helpful. So far the only definitive response I have received was from EG4 - they actually provided specific power rating figures for two of their inverters that support derating. They said the product warranty would remain intact between 2000m and 4000m if the inverter was derated by them prior to use.
 
Thanks so much for the information Jeff. I was also considering the MidNite Solar AIO so your communication that you shared is especially helpful. So far the only definitive response I have received was from EG4 - they actually provided specific power rating figures for two of their inverters that support derating. They said the product warranty would remain intact between 2000m and 4000m if the inverter was derated by them prior to use.
Hey you bet! Signature Solar and EG4 both failed to even respond to my altitude questions -- so you got a lot more useful info than we did to help make a decision:)
 
Hey you bet! Signature Solar and EG4 both failed to even respond to my altitude questions -- so you got a lot more useful info than we did to help make a decision:)
This is not what I like to hear!

I'm so sorry you haven't got a response from us! I'd like to find out where that message ended up at! I've sent you a dm for your contact information so I can look into this for you!
 
This is not what I like to hear!

I'm so sorry you haven't got a response from us! I'd like to find out where that message ended up at! I've sent you a dm for your contact information so I can look into this for you!
Thank you Jess, I'm sure had I gotten clarification / support like this months ago I may have gone with EG4. And I did reply to your DM to hopefully help track down what happened as I made multiple attempts for an answer.
Jeff
 
It's not so much cooling efficiency but when air is at less pressure the insulation breakdown voltage becomes less.
Now that’s a cool thought.. was not aware of that ..I’m guessing that the less pressure on the insulation allows it to expand a little …and thus become less dense… OR , is it somthing else..?
Very intresting…..thank you…J.
 
somthing else..

It's just the way that an electrical arc will more easily form in a gas at lower pressure. AKA Paschen's law - an equation that gives the breakdown voltage, that is, the voltage necessary to start a discharge or electric arc, between two electrodes in a gas as a function of pressure and gap length

 
It's just the way that an electrical arc will more easily form in a gas at lower pressure. AKA Paschen's law - an equation that gives the breakdown voltage, that is, the voltage necessary to start a discharge or electric arc, between two electrodes in a gas as a function of pressure and gap length

Thanks, that makes sense ..👍…J.
 
Thank you Jess, I'm sure had I gotten clarification / support like this months ago I may have gone with EG4. And I did reply to your DM to hopefully help track down what happened as I made multiple attempts for an answer.
Jeff
I completely understand. Unfortunately, I don't have access to EG4's correspondence records to look into theirs but I will ensure you can reach us at Signature Solar and if you need to connect with EG4, I can reach out to my contact and request that they give you a call! I'll continue responding through DM :)
 
Hey you bet! Signature Solar and EG4 both failed to even respond to my altitude questions -- so you got a lot more useful info than we did to help make a decision:)
Jeff, I contacted EG4 support, they said the 12Kpv and 18Kpv can be derated and run at high altitude
 

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Yes! We did get an update from EG4!

They said:
'For the 18kPV, EG4 would need to derate the inverter to 10kw due to the installation being at 2500 meters.

The warranty would stay intact with EG4 derating the equipment. If the unit is not derated then the warranty would be voided due to exceeding recommended specifications.'

I hope this helps!
 
Jeff, I contacted EG4 support, they said the 12Kpv and 18Kpv can be derated and run at high altitude
I'm super-stoked you got a definitive response as I didn't which was a contributing factor to choosing Midnite -- who did quickly respond. EG4 and SS responses now are certainly helpful even if they're too late for me. This thread -- with the derating chart for EG's 12k and 18k -- is super-helpful.

I realize manufacturers couldn't/can't anticipate every relevant spec -- but altitude (beyond the reported testing) seems like something that could be on spec sheets or in product details as many might not think to ask before they order...my 2 cents :).
Cheers,
 

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