Am I being a daft idiot?

[StephenV]

We just purchased an off grid straw bale home in the San Luis Valley in CO. The current system I inherited was installed in 2019:

8 x 305 W Longi (mono crystalline ) panels into a 4.4KW Magnun Inverter. (Batteries are flooded 48V but unfortunately not really able to hold a charge anymore.

Loads:

Well water pump (1500W) runs once ever 2-3 days for 10mins

Induction cook top (used during day only)

8-10 Incandescent lights have 4-5 on at most

Standard home refrigerator/freezer

Small electronics, laptops, internet gateway etc


(Propane on demand water heater, and hob oven for cooking/baking when not using induction cook top.)

Find the home to be incredibly efficient to keep temperature controlled. (wood burning stove for when it gets cold. Even with temps at 20F at night it still stays comfortably above 60F inside.

The rub:

Our lender is requiring a redundant heat source in the home. Before we got here I had already planned to upgrade the solar because of the aging batteries. While I was upgrading the solar I figured might as well throw a 12k BTU EG4 heat pump in the mix to appease the lender (really trying to avoid more LPG components)


Specs for upgraded system:

9x Aptos bifacial panels 440W (will keep Longi panel array)

6x Lifepro EG4 100Ah 5.2Kw 48V server rack batteries

1x Flexboss21 12Kw AIO inverter (12Kw is overkill but specs for the right inverter were extremely hard to find. Needs to be outdoor rated, operate at -15F and at 8000ft (EG4 will derate the inverter for altitude)

All of this to accommodate the heat pump for the lender that we will most likely never use. (home has been here 22+ years never needed extra heat other than wood stove)

Total estimated cost of system ~17k with 30% tax rebate comes in around $12.5k. It’s expandable and we’ll never want for electricity. ️

Alternatively I can just purchase 4 server rack batteries more than double the capacity of the old battery bank at its peak 8Kw usable DOD and then install a Rinai gas unit as the secondary heat source. ($1500 for heater and ~$1500 for install)

All in around $6500 (after rebate on LiFeP04 batteries)

Half the cost no extra array that needs to be installed by me. Effectively no compromise in electric usage on our part. We’ll still have the redundant heat source to appease the lender.

Am I being short sighted as to electric demand in the future. Better to pony up the extra $6k now and have more options. We don’t live extravagantly. No other big electric devices, life is more simple here and we like it that way.

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mattb4]

Or for a few hundred dollars put in a propane tank and something like this.

 

[doing it different]

What's wrong with LPG if your not going to use it. It covers exactly what you want it for.

 

[doing it different]

Not to be mean or anything. But one point of offgrid is to not have to toe the line, you need to work on being lender free

 

[WorldwideDave]

Wait so has to be a different fuel? Example : you have electricity but has to also have wood burning fireplace? I was doing a house remodel and inspector said I had to have a heater. This is in Los Angeles where it once snowed 100 years ago but hasn’t since. We had removed the old gas furnace but could not afford mini splits yet. I went to Target and bought an electric space heater and plugged it in and got the house to 82 degrees before he came in. He saw it and signed off.

 

[Bluedog225]

Sweet place.

I’m with Mattb4, why not a small electric heater. Do you have options? One of those fake fireplaces. Or a real wood stove if not already there.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Not to be mean or anything. But one point of offgrid is to not have to toe the line, you need to work on being lender free

Being debt free and being off grid are not the same thing. I am one but not the other.

 

[1201]

This is way overcomplicating things.

Why not just add a ductless mini split for about $600 and call it good?

 

[WorldwideDave]

I think he can’t- think supposed to be from another fuel source like electric and gas or electric and wood burning fireplace etc.

 

[StephenV]

What's wrong with LPG if your not going to use it. It covers exactly what you want it for.

It’s more trying to weigh the cost / benefit for me. Do I go all in and n electric and have the heat pump and AC in the summer for the extra expense. If that makes sense?

 

[StephenV]

Or for a few hundred dollars put in a propane tank and something like this.

View attachment 281877

The lender will require something more robust with thermostat capability to function if no one was home. This is intriguing though thank you.

 

[StephenV]

Not to be mean or anything. But one point of offgrid is to not have to toe the line, you need to work on being lender free

Well, little mean right ; ) I wish we had that luxury. We did put down 30% in cash and have been saving up all our lives. We’re late 40s. I would LOVE to be rid of the man, just don’t have that option. Apart from the house we are debt free.

 

[StephenV]

Wait so has to be a different fuel? Example : you have electricity but has to also have wood burning fireplace? I was doing a house remodel and inspector said I had to have a heater. This is in Los Angeles where it once snowed 100 years ago but hasn’t since. We had removed the old gas furnace but could not afford mini splits yet. I went to Target and bought an electric space heater and plugged it in and got the house to 82 degrees before he came in. He saw it and signed off.

Technically at the moment with the system as is, we only have the one source. Electric isn’t robust enough to provide heat and they won’t accept a simple space heater. They want something more robust and installed. This is what is complicating things so much for me.

 

[StephenV]

Sweet place.

I’m with Mattb4, why not a small electric heater. Do you have options? One of those fake fireplaces. Or a real wood stove if not already there.

Thank you — I believe the lender requires us to have something permanent. With the current system I wouldn’t be able to run a space heater. Though that would be an easy fix with adding battery capacity.

 

[StephenV]

Sweet place.

I’m with Mattb4, why not a small electric heater. Do you have options? One of those fake fireplaces. Or a real wood stove if not already there.

Forgot to mention, we do have a lovely wood burning stove. Thing is a champ. It’s just frustrating because the lender wants a redundant heat source. Either electric (significant upgrade requirement especially if I want to run it for 3-4 days sans- sun) or LPG which I’m happy to do but just trying to be smart and think of future needs (which I don’t think are significant) and or the additional $6k+ upgrade and then never having to worry about power again.

 

[StephenV]

Sorry for all the separate replies, trying to figure out the forum. Wish I could reply inline to the question. Thank you also for the ideas and feedback so far!

 

[Mattb4]

The lender will require something more robust with thermostat capability to function if no one was home. This is intriguing though thank you.

They come with installed thermostat but you can get models with external thermostats that are mounted separately just like your typical house with central heating.

However if you want a upgrade solar setup it may not make sense to do the propane. I just put it out there as a means to fill lenders requirement (even if you never use it).

 

[StephenV]

They come with installed thermostat but you can get models with external thermostats that are mounted separately just like your typical house with central heating.

However if you want an upgrade solar setup it may not make sense to do the propane. I just put it out there as a means to fill lenders requirement (even if you never use it).

I think this exactly where I’m struggling. I don’t ever really see us using the thing. It’s purely to appease the lender requirement (which I loathe to do) sounds like that might legitimately be an option then. Just stick the thing in the main room hook it up to existing propane lines and forget about it. Then I don’t have to go crazy overboard with the electric upgrade. But I guess I’m also struggling with the question of just upgrading to more robust electric system in general which is why I’m wondering if I’m being stupid all around. small heater + 3-4 new batteries and I’m golden vs doubling up on the spend and never worrying about anything electric again.

 

[Bluedog225]

Maybe “install” some floorboard electric heaters. Make it fancy with a wall mounted thermostat. Maybe wireless.

Then never use it. Or return it.

 

[Q-Dog]

Hybrid solar electric 12K mini split with its own solar panels. Upgrade the batteries on your existing system. Done.

 

[StephenV]

Maybe “install” some floorboard electric heaters. Make it fancy with a wall mounted thermostat. Maybe wireless.

Then never use it. Or return it.

I like it do I run that though off an upgraded electric system then yes?

 

[StephenV]

Hybrid solar electric 12K mini split with its own solar panels. Upgrade the batteries on your existing system. Done.

This is actually something I’ve considered and originally pitched to the lender. They insisted on battery capacity for at least 3 days of heat without sun : /

 

[SparkyJJO]

I like it do I run that though off an upgraded electric system then yes?

If you never turned it on, then don't worry about it.

 

[Q-Dog]

This is actually something I’ve considered and originally pitched to the lender. They insisted on battery capacity for at least 3 days of heat without sun : /

Increase existing battery capacity when you replace the lead. Connect the AC side of the mini split to your existing inverter system. Charge the batteries with a generator when solar can't keep up.

 

[Bluedog225]

And make sure your lead can’t be salvaged for another couple of year’s of service.