am i crazy to buy a 15KW generator as solar back up

[TimothyArseno]

I am close to purchasing a Kubota 15KW generator as back up for my Northern, Ontario, Canada, off grid property.
Do i or don't I ? I have stacked 4448 magna sine inverters, 24 - S2 L16 HC batteries and midnight classic controller.
During the dark months is my worry since the north can be without sun for weeks at a time.
Does anyone have any good advice? Will a unit this big be compatible to auto start ? it is rated 62.5A standby power, can i wire it direct to my busbar and let the inverters do their job? HELP?

 

[gnubie]

Not advice, curiosity. Do you plan on using it intermittently, ie to supply AC to the AC input on the magnasine units so they can recharge your batteries and also provide AC to your loads via the mangasine's internal path? Thinking of fuel use when lightly loaded if you plan on running it for extended periods.

 

[Steve_S]

I am running into a similar issue. I ordered a Champion 8.5kw standby unit only to discover standby units rare no good for off-grid (no grid power) applications. In fact, the Champions will void the warranty. So guess what order got cancelled.

Also, my Inverter/Charger is a Samlex EVO, it has a relay signal to communicate with an AGS to autostart a generator. LINK: http://atkinsonelectronics.com/gscm-mini-60hz-usa-canada/ The compatibility list is extensive so you have to check that here LINK to Combined Sheet and do contact their tech support to verify, Excellent Folk !
Hint, if a generator is not compatible with their GSCM's its's probably not going to work with anyone else's auto start either.

You'll have to check your inverter docs to see what system they recommend, then verify if your genset will work with it. But like I said above, if they don't support it, unlikely anyone else does.

As for sizing that Kubota, well you know the size of your system and what it should take to keep you charged up. I'm doing this now, cause I'm sick of manually topping up end of Dec & Jan (I'm Petawawa Ish) by using a gas genny that requires choke play (manual) to go.

Now I am searching for either a Dual Fuel or LPG 7kw+ Generator with electric start and auto-choke that is on that listing.

can i wire it direct to my busbar and let the inverters do their job? HELP?

I don't understand, Wire it to your busbar ?
Normally 120 or 240 from genset inbound to Inverter/Charger AC IN and that in turn Charges the battery banks.

 

[TimothyArseno]

Not advice, curiosity. Do you plan on using it intermittently, ie to supply AC to the AC input on the magnasine units so they can recharge your batteries and also provide AC to your loads via the mangasine's internal path? Thinking of fuel use when lightly loaded if you plan on running it for extended periods.

Yes it would be used when called upon by the Controller

I am running into a similar issue. I ordered a Champion 8.5kw standby unit only to discover standby units rare no good for off-grid (no grid power) applications. In fact, the Champions will void the warranty. So guess what order got cancelled.

Also, my Inverter/Charger is a Samlex EVO, it has a relay signal to communicate with an AGS to autostart a generator. LINK: http://atkinsonelectronics.com/gscm-mini-60hz-usa-canada/ The compatibility list is extensive so you have to check that here LINK to Combined Sheet and do contact their tech support to verify, Excellent Folk !
Hint, if a generator is not compatible with their GSCM's its's probably not going to work with anyone else's auto start either.

You'll have to check your inverter docs to see what system they recommend, then verify if your genset will work with it. But like I said above, if they don't support it, unlikely anyone else does.

As for sizing that Kubota, well you know the size of your system and what it should take to keep you charged up. I'm doing this now, cause I'm sick of manually topping up end of Dec & Jan (I'm Petawawa Ish) by using a gas genny that requires choke play (manual) to go.

Now I am searching for either a Dual Fuel or LPG 7kw+ Generator with electric start and auto-choke that is on that listing.


I don't understand, Wire it to your busbar ?
Normally 120 or 240 from genset inbound to Inverter/Charger AC IN and that in turn Charges the battery banks.

Had an one electrician from sturgeon falls give me bad advice and I spent money on a generator that I’m struggling with now. Then another in northbay try and sell me a standby propane that I inquired about at head office who said NO WAY would we sell you that I’m an off grid application. So now I’m apprehensive even buying knots / cumins.

I am running into a similar issue. I ordered a Champion 8.5kw standby unit only to discover standby units rare no good for off-grid (no grid power) applications. In fact, the Champions will void the warranty. So guess what order got cancelled.

Also, my Inverter/Charger is a Samlex EVO, it has a relay signal to communicate with an AGS to autostart a generator. LINK: http://atkinsonelectronics.com/gscm-mini-60hz-usa-canada/ The compatibility list is extensive so you have to check that here LINK to Combined Sheet and do contact their tech support to verify, Excellent Folk !
Hint, if a generator is not compatible with their GSCM's its's probably not going to work with anyone else's auto start either.

You'll have to check your inverter docs to see what system they recommend, then verify if your genset will work with it. But like I said above, if they don't support it, unlikely anyone else does.

As for sizing that Kubota, well you know the size of your system and what it should take to keep you charged up. I'm doing this now, cause I'm sick of manually topping up end of Dec & Jan (I'm Petawawa Ish) by using a gas genny that requires choke play (manual) to go.

Now I am searching for either a Dual Fuel or LPG 7kw+ Generator with electric start and auto-choke that is on that listing.


I don't understand, Wire it to your busbar ?
Normally 120 or 240 from genset inbound to Inverter/Charger AC IN and that in turn Charges the battery banks.

 

[Steve_S]

WORDS of Wisdom.
NO Stand-By will be useable for Off-Grid applications like us. AVOID GENERAC !!!! After they got bought out by the holding company, quality tanked and hard, sad, twas a great product in the day.

I have feelers out for LPG Gensets that we can actually get up here. Honda is there of course but Honda priced too which IMO is high premium. I was very disappointed about the Champion, I have some of their gear and it's perfect and they are used HARD too but well maintained with synthetic oil etc... I've come across Onans and others but I am not interested in diesel at all.

 

[TimothyArseno]

Yes it would be used when called upon by the Controller

Had an one electrician from sturgeon falls give me bad advice and I spent money on a generator that I’m struggling with now. Then another in northbay try and sell me a standby propane that I inquired about at head office who said NO WAY would we sell you that I’m an off grid application. So now I’m apprehensive even buying knots / cumins.

Kubota Cummins.

WORDS of Wisdom.
NO Stand-By will be useable for Off-Grid applications like us. AVOID GENERAC !!!! After they got bought out by the holding company, quality tanked and hard, sad, twas a great product in the day.

I have feelers out for LPG Gensets that we can actually get up here. Honda is there of course but Honda priced too which IMO is high premium. I was very disappointed about the Champion, I have some of their gear and it's perfect and they are used HARD too but well maintained with synthetic oil etc... I've come across Onans and others but I am not interested in diesel at all.

It’s becoming a difficult decision. Yes standby is no good. It’s been suggested Onan propane quiet series ? But we’dhy not diesel? It’s a proven. Work horse and long lasting

 

[Steve_S]

Myself, I want no fuel that can sour over time. LPG won't and will sit till you need it, years if need be. Also, LPG devices can be easily converted to use BioGas which WE CAN DO HERE with some DIY effort or with commercial offerings. Self-Generated BioGas running the equipment would cut the last "dependency" on the road to freedom & independence.

 

[Steve_S]

@TimothyArseno I have been working with Atkinson's Tech Support to locate a workable genset, dual fuel or LPG, and LUCK fell from Heaven !
At his time, EVERY generator company is backlogged, I contacted a few companies and it is the same story,
No Names, Offbrands not included as there is NO INTEREST in that.

Well, as luck would have it. COSTCO.CA and this works with the Atkinson

https://www.costco.ca/champion-9000-w-portable-dual-fuel-generator.product.100227087.html

Attached are the pertinent Atkinson Docs for anyone interested.
The Champion Doc attached is the same for the model shown above.

Geez, now I have to get another danged membership for a store that is 200km's away that I never go to... sheesh. The things we do to be free.. hmmmmm

 

[Rider]

I am close to purchasing a Kubota 15KW generator as back up for my Northern, Ontario, Canada, off grid property.
Do i or don't I ? I have stacked 4448 magna sine inverters, 24 - S2 L16 HC batteries and midnight classic controller.
During the dark months is my worry since the north can be without sun for weeks at a time.
Does anyone have any good advice? Will a unit this big be compatible to auto start ? it is rated 62.5A standby power, can i wire it direct to my busbar and let the inverters do their job? HELP?

My question would be: do you really need that much generator capacity? Does everything need to be run at once or can electrical needs be staggered so a much smaller (read as less expensive) genny is needed? What would your ACTUAL max power requirements be? Because not only would you save money on the genny, you'd also save money on fuel, maintenance, lower cost for hookup (heavy wire gets expensive...)...

Not trying to discourage your planning in any way, but this is a question I would ask myself.

As far as fuel is concerned, LPG is nice, if you have it piped in and available already. Propane is expensive, and you'd need a huge supply to last thru a winter. There is nothing wrong with a good diesel genny. Tried and true, motors last forever if maintained, fuel doesn't spoil, especially if you treat the fuel.

 

[RCinFLA]

Fuel consumption per kWH produced goes up below 20-30% generator loading so unless you have a good reason for more power then charging power you might consider sizing generator to be loaded to 50 to 70% by maximum battery charging. More then 70-80% generator loading is just hard on generator.

For lead-acid batteries, it takes a lot of time and fuel to get the last 15% top off capacity. Unless you need the extra capacity don't do full charge that often when charging on generator. Should do full top off charging once a week to keep battery from sulfating. You will notice a drop off in capacity during a week of not fully recharging so be careful of over discharging.

 

[RCinFLA]

Some examples:

Model (Gasoline)	Rated kW	HP	kW/HP	Fuel Tank	Run Hrs	% Load	Gal/Hr	@ kW	kWH/Gal	amps	voltage
Generac 04582	15.0	30.0	0.50	16.0	12.3	50%	1.30	7.5	5.8	31.25	240.0
Generac 04582	15.0	30.0	0.50	16.0	10.0	75%	1.60	11.3	7.0	46.88	240.0
Generac 04582	15.0	30.0	0.50	16.0	8.9	100%	1.80	15.0	8.3	62.50	240.0
Yamaha EF3000sei	2.8	5.5	0.51	3.4	20.5	25%	0.17	0.7	4.2	5.83	120.0
Yamaha EF3000sei	2.8	5.5	0.51	3.4	8.0	100%	0.43	2.8	6.6	23.33	120.0
Robin 3800	3.8	9.0	0.42	4.2	6.6	50%	0.64	1.9	3.0	7.92	240.0
Robin RG3200iS	2.8	7.5	0.37	3.7	8.4	50%	0.44	1.4	3.2	5.83	240.0
Briggs & Stratton 6200	6.2	11.0	0.56	7.0	13.0	50%	0.54	3.1	5.8	12.92	240.0
Briggs & Stratton 10,000	10.0	18.0	0.56	8.0	8.0	50%	1.00	5.0	5.0	20.83	240.0
Robin 10,000	10.0	18.0	0.56	11.4	8.7	50%	1.31	5.0	3.8	20.83	240.0
Winco 10,800	10.8	20.0	0.54	15.0	14.5	50%	1.03	5.4	5.2	22.50	240.0
Briggs & Stratton 3500	3.5	6.5	0.54	4.0	12.0	50%	0.33	1.8	5.3	7.29	240.0
Yamaha 2000 Watt	2.0	5.5	0.36	1.6	8.5	25%	0.19	0.5	2.7	4.17	120.0
Yamaha 900 Watt	0.9	2.2	0.41	0.7	12.0	25%	0.06	0.2	4.1	1.88	120.0
Briggs & Stratton 2000	2.0	4.0	0.50	1.3	4.9	50%	0.27	1.0	3.8	4.17	240.0
Briggs & Stratton 7000	7.0	15.0	0.47	7.0	8.0	50%	0.88	3.5	4.0	14.58	240.0
McCulloch 7000	7.0	13.0	0.54	5.0	10.0	50%	0.50	3.5	7.0	14.58	240.0
Coleman Powermate 11,000	11.0	20.0	0.55	8.0	7.0	50%	1.14	5.5	4.8	22.92	240.0
Coleman Powermate 1500	1.5	3.5	0.43	1.3	7.0	50%	0.19	0.8	4.0	3.13	240.0
Mitsubishi 9,500	9.5	22.0	0.43	11.4	8.2	50%	1.39	4.8	3.4	19.79	240.0
Honda Powered 4,000 Watt	3.3	6.5	0.50	3.0	7.0	50%	0.43	1.6	3.8	6.77	240.0
Honda Powered 11,000	11.0	20.0	0.55	8.0	9.0	50%	0.89	5.5	6.2	22.92	240.0
Honda Powered 11,000	11.0	20.0	0.55	8.0	6.6	75%	1.22	8.3	6.8	34.38	240.0
Honda Powered 11,000	11.0	20.0	0.55	8.0	5.8	100%	1.39	11.0	7.9	45.83	240.0

Model (Diesel)	Rated kW	HP	kW/HP	Fuel Tank	Run Hrs	% Load	Gal/Hr	@ kW	kWH/Gal	amps	voltage
Generac RD02025ADAE	20.0	40.0	0.50	33.5	43.0	25%	0.78	5.0	6.4	20.83	240.0
Generac RD02025ADAE	20.0	40.0	0.50	33.5	31.0	50%	1.08	10.0	9.3	41.67	240.0
Generac RD02025ADAE	20.0	40.0	0.50	33.5	23.0	75%	1.46	15.0	10.3	62.50	240.0
Generac RD02025ADAE	20.0	40.0	0.50	33.5	17.0	100%	1.97	20.0	10.1	83.33	240.0

 

[Trukinbear]

I started out with a Champion dual-fuel inverter generator. Burn't a valve at about 5000hrs -Champion replaced the entire unit under warranty but by the time the new one arrived I'd discovered Onan. I bought a $50 Onan BGAL (LPG) that came out of a motorhome, sold that and bought an Onan 7.5JB with the proceeds from the BGAL. Flipped the 7.5JB and bought a 12.5DJC (diesel) 6MDJE (diesel) and a 7.5HDKAL (diesel) - traded the 7.5HDKAL for a 10HDKAG (diesel) that I used for 2 years and recently sold the 12.5DJC, the 6MDJE, and the 10HDKAG and bought a Cummins Onan QD8000 8HDKAK quiet diesel inverter generator and a Cummins Onan QD3200 3.2HDZAA quiet diesel cycloconverter generator. The QD8000 is primary and the QD3200 is emergency backup. An older Troy Bilt 5550 (gasoline) is my emergency emergency backup.

Sure not everybody can take a $50 generator and parley them into two new ($11k & $8k) generators - but diesel is still the way to go. Natural gas is good too if you have it to your local but as many found out after Hurricane Andrew way back when, when the lights go out the gas follows.

 

[Trukinbear]

If your generator has electric start via a button on the console it can be adapted to autostart. I don't know about Kubota, but almost ALL of the Onan Diesels have a connection for a remote panel, that is where I've wired the Atkinson GSCM mini-i to them all. Atkinson makes several different units, make sure you get the correct one (though I've used this same one for 4 different generators with no problems).

 

[Trukinbear]

What generator are you struggling with, maybe I can help?

 

[Prefersdirt]

Also, LPG devices can be easily converted to use BioGas which WE CAN DO HERE with some DIY effort or with commercial offerings. Self-Generated BioGas running the equipment would cut the last "dependency" on the road to freedom & independence.

this I am marking as DANG I need to read up more on this.

 

[madmax]

I use my gen set so n infrequently I have about 35 hours total... lol

 

[schmism]

this I am marking as DANG I need to read up more on this.

Spark ignite engines will run well on woodgas from a gassifyer. Diesels will run off biodiesel (processed vegi oil)

 

[Rider]

Diesels will run off biodiesel (processed vegi oil)

But the problem here is that you eat your entire winter food supply in a few weeks because of the french fry exhaust smell.

 

[Trukinbear]

Diesel engines will also run on a combination of diesel supplemented by either LPG, NG, or woodgas if you want to do some backyard engineering. All the big HP diesel pullers run propane and diesel. The more LPG you use the less diesel - ultimately it's just enough diesel to ignite the LPG.

Dieselblend Dual Fuel System | Prins Autogassystemen BV

The Prins Dieselblend Dual Fuel system is an innovative fuel system. In diesel engines, this system makes it possible to substitute a part of diesel by cleaner and cheaper (bio) LPG, CNG, LNG or Hydrogen H2.

www.prinsautogas.com

 

[Stewfish]

I am close to purchasing a Kubota 15KW generator as back up for my Northern, Ontario, Canada, off grid property.
Do i or don't I ? I have stacked 4448 magna sine inverters, 24 - S2 L16 HC batteries and midnight classic controller.
During the dark months is my worry since the north can be without sun for weeks at a time.
Does anyone have any good advice? Will a unit this big be compatible to auto start ? it is rated 62.5A standby power, can i wire it direct to my busbar and let the inverters do their job? HELP?

You will easily burn through 15 gallons of gas per night =$30. It's 8 gallons for a 7000watt genny. I used 5 gallons a night to run a heater on my 3500w genny and that was too much How are you going to get 450 gallons of gas $900 a month?

Do a camping propane water heater =$15 for 20 lb tank every month, diesel heater is 1.5 liters of diesel a night = less than $1, wood stove, smallest Genny possible to top of batteries for lights and fridge.

I have lived on a 3500watt Genny for almost a year and I filled my 35 gallon gas caddy every week to run from 6pm to 7am. To save I had to switch to a 2000watt yamaha to run my 450w window AC for a gallon a night $2, and got the cabela's remote start Genny to remote start for morning and evenings.

Now I spend under $100 a month.

Wind would probably be better for you.


Sorry man