An inside explosion on my schneider 4048

[Norbert55]

(Wow! I think was my mistake)...

..I was searching for a damage flooded battery in my bank and for my "good lock" i found the faulty one i was testing with and hygrometer the cells and one cell was damage ,as you can see in the picture., And for my "bad lock" i disconnect the battery terminals the charge controller was ON and the inverter was ON too and suddenly an inner explosion inside the Schneider 4048 that was so strong because i see the lightning reflection through the front buttons, looks like some transistor, diode or any type of semiconductor due to the smell.
wow! i can't believe that., Now i need to open the inverter to see why and what really explode and don't know why this happens so i need suggestions and explanation why this happens., I'm electronics technician and a beginner on solar technology so any suggestion I'll appreciate, thanks

 

[Solar Guppy]

(Wow! I think was my mistake)...
i disconnect the battery terminals the charge controller was ON and the inverter was ON too and suddenly an inner explosion inside the Schneider 4048

Charge controllers require the battery to regulate voltage, without the battery bad things happen as the chargers output voltage can increase to what the energy source is, solar or otherwise.

 

[Norbert55]

Charge controllers require the battery to regulate voltage, without the battery bad things happen as the chargers output voltage can increase to what the energy source is, solar or otherwise.

WOW! true, basic electronic, i was an a hurry doing lots of things a a time and forget that. Now i need to know what was damaged inside my inverter ,uff! now two problems in my back.

 

[k490]

Post up some pictures inside the Schneider

 

[Norbert55]

Post up some pictures inside the Schneider

Ok, I found this today: A resistor R123 and TP30 burned.This is in the main panel

 

[HighTechLab]

Ok, I found this today: A resistor R123 and TP30 burned.This is in the main panel

There is certainly more than that if you heard a bang. Find the main power board, there should be big heatsinks - bolted to that will be some MOSFETs and near those should be some capacitors. I'd imagine those are your main carnage.

 

[Norbert55]

There is certainly more than that if you heard a bang. Find the main power board, there should be big heatsinks - bolted to that will be some MOSFETs and near those should be some capacitors. I'd imagine those are your main carnage.

From other forum they send me this: both the resistor reads R22, means 22ohms?

 

[rogerheflin]

From other forum they send me this: both the resistor reads R22, means 22ohms?

No. It means it is resistor #22 on the wiring diagram/board.

 

[sollap]

The R means decimal point. It translates to 0.22Ω
You'll need to measure the resistors to find out what package code and rating they are.
https://eepower.com/resistor-guide/resistor-standards-and-codes/resistor-sizes-and-packages/

 

[Norbert55]

The R means decimal point. It translates to 0.22Ω
You'll need to measure the resistors to find out what package code and rating they are.
https://eepower.com/resistor-guide/resistor-standards-and-codes/resistor-sizes-and-packages/

Good ,the problem here is that my board and the one from other forums are the same part number but if you see closely the resistor values are different.
Both boards resistor numbers are identify as R123 and R122

 

[Brucey]

Charge controllers require the battery to regulate voltage, without the battery bad things happen as the chargers output voltage can increase to what the energy source is, solar or otherwise.

I believe this can be overcome via circuit design. For example Midnites Barcelona and Hawkes bay SCCs are able to withstand the battery BMS disconnecting without letting out the magic smoke.

Victron SCCs can handle solar on without battery connected as well. In this case it's Schneider and the inverter/charger was also powered on.

 

[sollap]

Good ,the problem here is that my board and the one from other forums are the same part number but if you see closely the resistor values are different.
Both boards resistor numbers are identify as R123 and R122

You'll need to find someone with a board revision similar to yours to tell you what those resistors should be.


I agree with what HighTechLab told you though. If you heard it blow, the damage is more than just those two resistors.

 

[Norbert55]

You'll need to find someone with a board revision similar to yours to tell you what those resistors should be.
View attachment 255260

I agree with what HighTechLab told you though. If you heard it blow, the damage is more than just those two resistors.

Yeah probably but i hope no. Mine have the same serial but the white square is in blank.

 

[bolek_bolek]

Hi, I'm on the other side of the globe but may be able to help you remotely on fixing this. But first, do you have the electronics skills /tools / parts for some troubleshooting ? If not, you may break it even worse , even beyond repair, so better find a decent service shop.
If you are able to do it on your own... it looks to me it's the auxiliary (housekeeping) power supply that you need to fix first and HOPE nothing else broke...To confirm, please tell us the writings on the 8 legged bug next to the burned shunt resistors. If I'm right that is the aux supply's PWM controller IC and that usually dies too after the two resistors and the MOSFET die. BTW, the MOSFET that lost a part of its body is an inch above the shunts and was not mentioned, it's left of R113 and TP20.

 

[robbob2112]

May I throw in my 2 cents - just a general look around to see if any of the caps have dome shapped tops? ie. bulging or leaks around them... I know when one of those shorts it tends to go off with a very loud bang. Maybe even take a photo of the whole board and post. Sometimes when caps explode they don't leave anything but their legs sticking up and some marks on the board.

just a general suggestion from fixing PSU in the distant past

 

[Norbert55]

Hi, I'm on the other side of the globe but may be able to help you remotely on fixing this. But first, do you have the electronics skills /tools / parts for some troubleshooting ? If not, you may break it even worse , even beyond repair, so better find a decent service shop.
If you are able to do it on your own... it looks to me it's the auxiliary (housekeeping) power supply that you need to fix first and HOPE nothing else broke...To confirm, please tell us the writings on the 8 legged bug next to the burned shunt resistors. If I'm right that is the aux supply's PWM controller IC and that usually dies too after the two resistors and the MOSFET die. BTW, the MOSFET that lost a part of its body is an inch above the shunts and was not mentioned, it's left of R113 and TP20.

Yep,i'm electronic technician and thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Recovering EE]

Yeah probably but i hope no. Mine have the same serial but the white square is in blank.

Is it just me, or does it look like something else puked all over the board, from right to left?

 

[sollap]

I think that's the conformal coating. They did a really lousy job if so.

 

[HighTechLab]

Anyone check the H-bridge yet? yet? I've blown many surfacemount resistors, they don't make loud bangs. FETs do

 

[bolek_bolek]

0. I don't have a similar inverter, so my advices are just from many years of experience servicing power stuff and from your images, so...
1. It would help a lot to have more photos in high res of the board. I saw U18 (optocoupler?) seems damaged or it's just the view angle? it's between the orange and brown caps next to the 28V writing in this photo https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/6106-e-jpg.255055/
2. How many boards are in this machine? I don't see the power FETs bolted to the heatsink, so they are somewhere else.
3. Your solar charger may require a battery permanently connected as buffer , or it will massively overvoltage any load connected to where the battery should be, in this case the inverter...
Off topic, many solar chargers lack the proper output inductors and run in discontinuous mode with HUGE voltage spikes at the output, maybe close to the input voltage.... A battery is similar to a massive cap (hundreds of thousand of farads) and can swallow them, anything else cannot and ... chokes to death...

 

[Norbert55]

0. I don't have a similar inverter, so my advices are just from many years of experience servicing power stuff and from your images, so...
1. It would help a lot to have more photos in high res of the board. I saw U18 (optocoupler?) seems damaged or it's just the view angle? it's between the orange and brown caps next to the 28V writing in this photo https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/6106-e-jpg.255055/
2. How many boards are in this machine? I don't see the power FETs bolted to the heatsink, so they are somewhere else.
3. Your solar charger may require a battery permanently connected as buffer , or it will massively overvoltage any load connected to where the battery should be, in this case the inverter...
Off topic, many solar chargers lack the proper output inductors and run in discontinuous mode with HUGE voltage spikes at the output, maybe close to the input voltage.... A battery is similar to a massive cap (hundreds of thousand of farads) and can swallow them, anything else cannot and ... chokes to death...

Ok ..more pictures

 

[Norbert55]

MOSfet transistor 13N086L is near the burned resistors and look like if it was smoked by the resistors, Is available at Amazon ,$17.87,have only 2 pins welded.

 

[sollap]

R118 looks cooked as well. I can't tell what it's value is, but i don't think it's 10R0 like the one next to it. The last digit does not look rounded enough to be a zero. It might be a 1. It's hard to tell.
There is a lot of char between R122 and inductor L8. I can't tell from this photo angle if L8 has blown it's side out. May not be, that could just be from R122, but it needs a closer look.
C113 appears to be a decoupling cap. It may have saved you. The excess voltage may have jumped through it to ground. Check it to see if it's shorted.
Pin 3 of the 8 pin chip is connected to that voltage through R118, and it may not have survived even if the cap brought most of the excess to ground.

 

[Norbert55]

R118 looks cooked as well. I can't tell what it's value is, but i don't think it's 10R0 like the one next to it. The last digit does not look rounded enough to be a zero. It might be a 1. It's hard to tell.
There is a lot of char between R122 and inductor L8. I can't tell from this photo angle if L8 has blown it's side out. May not be, that could just be from R122, but it needs a closer look.
C113 appears to be a decoupling cap. It may have saved you. The excess voltage may have jumped through it to ground. Check it to see if it's shorted.
Pin 3 of the 8 pin chip is connected to that voltage through R118, and it may not have survived even if the cap brought most of the excess to ground.

Is neccesary an schematic i'm trying to get one but nothing appears.

 

[HarryN]

Digikey, newark and similar are a better source for electronics than amazon, at least in my experience.