Another Victron vs EG4 vs Samlex Debate...

[JAS]

Hi all,

I know this has been hashed out a lot in other threads. But, I have specific requirements that I haven't found touched on...

Background:

At my primary home, I currently have a Samlex EVO 4248 240v Split Phase Inverter/Charger w/ (3) server rack batteries and I'm using the AC In from the grid. Even though the EVO is "only" a 4200W Inverter. It has no problem running my 1HP 500'+ deep well pump. (I was pretty happy about that). This setup has been rock solid (except for some low temp issues with the batteries that I had to iron out with insulation and heating pads).

I also have an off-grid vacation cabin with the same well depth and pump that I'd like to setup similarly, except AC In will be from a generator. That system will only be turned on when I'm there. IE: I don't need it running 24x7.

Dilemma:

The Samlex has no remote monitoring capabilities. I've worked around this to a degree with some Shelly EM monitors to see the AC Watt/Amp usage on the AC in/out connections. Since I need a similarly sufficient inverter at my cabin, I've been thinking about taking the Samlex there and getting something with better visibility\communication for home.

Options:

• (2) Victron Multiplus II 48/3000 in split phase
  • Question: I see @Will Prowse had a video on these and they overloaded at ~4800W. However, it looked like they kept running at the higher wattage (with the alarm). So any reason to believe these couldn't start my well pump (since the surge is only temporary)?
  • Question: Is there any chance these can back-feed the grid if I have that disabled in the software? I've read several other discussions that many(All?) of the AIO units (off-grid versions included) can potentially back-feed a very small amount, but still enough to alert the poco and bring unwanted attention.
  • The only Cons (unless they can't start the well pump) are:
    • Cost: almost twice the cost of the 6000XP. And that is from Amazon w/ free shipping.
    • additional space/wiring needed
• EG4 6000XP
  • My biggest worry here is the numerous issues brought up in these forums in comparison to Victron: IE: flickering lights, error codes, fried devices, and other oddball issues
  • I'm also not sure it would handle the well pump surge. However, this could be remedied by adding a 2nd in parallel and still be only a few hundred dollars more than the (2) victrons.
    • But, does having them in parallel introduce more of the issues seen here?
• Get another Samlex EVO
  • Pros
    • I know it works
    • Expect it to last a long time just like Victron
  • Cons
    • More expensive than 6000XP
    • No monitoring
    • about 60W consumption (I know this isn't terrible. But slightly more than the other options.)

Curious on everyones thoughts?

Thanks,

JAS

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I don't know anything about Samlex, but between Victron and EG4, it's not even a contest - go with Victron. Since you are trying to start a big pump, the transformers in the Victron equipment will hold up and support that kind of load surge way better than the EG4, for a given size.

"Nobody was ever fired for buying Victron" or something like that.

 

[Quattrohead]

Since you are trying to start a big pump, the transformers in the Victron equipment will hold up and support that kind of load surge way better than the EG4, for a given size.

This just simply is not true anymore.

 

[ricardocello]

Do you know the make and model of the well pump?
Specifically the Locked Rotor current (LRA)?

Samlex are pretty good quality, or so I've read. What instrumentation do you wish it had?
You can always buy a Victron SmartShunt for the DC battery side in addition to your Shelly EM for the AC.
I've got Shelly Pro EM-50, it logs data.

 

[JAS]

Do you know the make and model of the well pump?

I can get that when I get home

What instrumentation do you wish it had?

It would be nice to monitor the inverter directly and control it as well. (IE: enable charging, switch to grid, etc.)

You can always buy a Victron SmartShunt

LOL, I do have one already and have Solar Assistant (to read the EG4 batteries) and VenusOS to read the shunt and SCCs

Would be nice to eliminate a bunch of extra wires/devices and consolidate on one solution (either SA or VenusOS)

 

[ricardocello]

Would be nice to eliminate a bunch of extra wires/devices and consolidate on one solution (either SA or VenusOS)

Are these compatible with your Samlex EVO?
It's "remote", but it doesn't log anything to computer. Looks nice though.

Remote Control for EVO Inverter/Chargers | EVO-RC-PLUS

Intelligent remote control with LCD display and SD card functionality to log data, monitor performance and set parameters on all EVO Inverter/Chargers.

samlexamerica.com

And have you seen this thread?

Thread 'Samlex EVO inverter Data Logging'

Aug 28, 2022

Has anyone used the EVO data logging feature? If so, what did you record and how do you read the data?

• hwse
• Replies: 9
• Forum: DIY Solar General Discussion

Maybe not what you are looking for.

And this one:

B

Thread 'Modbus capability of Samlex Evo inverter/chargers?'

Oct 15, 2020

I just pulled the trigger on a Samlex EVO 4024 for my van build and I'm wondering if there's any chance of getting data out of it through Modbus. @Steve_S, I read one of your posts that indicated you were working on something but you had to sign a NDA. Have you made any progress with your project? Anyone else had any experience pulling data from the EVO? I'd love to use something like a Rpi or Arduino to put together a custom data dashboard.

I'm also wondering, if Modbus is too much trouble, if it would be possible to use a wifi SD card in the evo-rc remote control. It'd be...

• bri2k
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Danger Zone! (Advanced User Experiments Only)

 

[JAS]

@ricardocello ,

No, neither Solar Assistant nor VenusOS are compatible with the Samlex...

Yes, I have the RC Plus for the Samlex (Need it do almost any programming). It does log data to the SD card. I haven't checked it yet. But, I think it just spits out a csv file. There's a specific procedure to removing it and reinstalling it.... Seems kind of a pain. Definitely not actually a remote access solution.

I did read those threads in the past before I bought my Samlex. It appears Samlex has built in the capability to communicate with the Inverter (There are RJ45 jacks). But, they won't open the protocol for anyone to interface with it. . I wouldn't care if they provided their own solution...

 

[Will Prowse]

I really like samlex, low problems from everyone I know who has purchased them.

Yes I disagree about victron being superior to victron. Victron for the most part are not listed or code compliant. And the 12/18kpv surge capacity is ridiculous.

 

[Will Prowse]

@ricardocello ,

No, neither Solar Assistant nor VenusOS are compatible with the Samlex...

Yes, I have the RC Plus for the Samlex (Need it do almost any programming). It does log data to the SD card. I haven't checked it yet. But, I think it just spits out a csv file. There's a specific procedure to removing it and reinstalling it.... Seems kind of a pain. Definitely not actually a remote access solution.

I did read those threads in the past before I bought my Samlex. It appears Samlex has built in the capability to communicate with the Inverter (There are RJ45 jacks). But, they won't open the protocol for anyone to interface with it. . I wouldn't care if they provided their own solution...

Oh goodness that might be problematic with communication then. That is not fun to deal with.

 

[JAS]

I really like samlex, low problems from everyone I know who has purchased them.

Yes I disagree about victron being superior to victron. Victron for the most part are not listed or code compliant. And the 12/18kpv surge capacity is ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm looking at the UL listed Multiplus'.

Unfortunately, the 12/18kpv's are out of my budget. Plus I don't need/want to backfeed the grid. I know they are supposed to be able to be configured not to. But, that's where I've seen reports that they still can "burb" a bit of power back. And yes, I know I could leave the AC disconnected and just charge with a ChargeVerter. And I'm actually already doing that, . But, that's another moving part that would be nice to eliminate.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This just simply is not true anymore.

OK, well I continue to see issues posted on these forums with inverters not handling motor startup current. So...

 

[JAS]

Do you know the make and model of the well pump?
Specifically the Locked Rotor current (LRA)?

 

[ricardocello]

Wow, I looked through all of the Franklin J-Class pumps in the catalog and cannot find the T1HR5P21-S2.
nor the 9523-7000.
Not a normal part number for them, still looking…

Ok. I can’t find that pump anywhere.
Without an LRA spec, you have to guess what the surge current will be.

If you have a current clamp meter with a surge (not Max) function, you could measure it when the pump runs.
I see the 9.8A max listed there, but that is for the control box.

 

[Brett V]

My first inverter was a Cotek 1500 watt 24 volt unit. It started 2 freezers, the refrigerator, and several lights as well as the tv and satellite receiver. When presented with an overload from one of the compressors turning on it would make a high pitched buzz and quickly recover. Samlex is the parent company of Cotek and they share much of the same engineering. They build a good solid product.

 

[Madcodger]

I don't know anything about Samlex, but between Victron and EG4, it's not even a contest - go with Victron. Since you are trying to start a big pump, the transformers in the Victron equipment will hold up and support that kind of load surge way better than the EG4, for a given size.

"Nobody was ever fired for buying Victron" or something like that.

I own both Victron and EG4, in separate systems. Both are fantastic for starting motors. And FWIW, the only time I've ever been unable to start a motor that was within the amperage of the inverter, it was with a Victron system, at a previous property we owned. There's an old thread on here about that. We chalked it up to the batteries, but it's not like the Victron was some magic motor problem solver. I really like them, but I really like my EG4 equipment, as well.