Any Experience with Reliable / XYZInv MPPT Charge Controllers?

[fafrd]

I’ve got a 3kW inverter from Reliable (or WZRELB or XYZINV) which I am very happy with as far as build quality and performance.

I’m in search of a 50-60A 24/48V MPPT charge controller and see that Reliable has introduced a 40A and a 60A offering early this year: https://www.amazon.com/WZRELB-Charg...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

I’m wondering whether there are any Forum Members who have experience or feedback with these new Reliable MPPT charge controllers.

I’m also interested in any recommendations for other budget 50-60A 24-48V MPPT charge controllers to consider.

 

[DThames]

The price is right up there with the EPEver offering. EPEver is a known product. The new guy would need to offer something special to be worth trying the new guy.

 

[fafrd]

The price is right up there with the EPEver offering. EPEver is a known product. The new guy would need to offer something special to be worth trying the new guy.

If EPEVER is a Forum favorite for budget MPPT charge controllers in the 50-60A 24/48VDC category, that’s helpful to know and I’ll put EPEVER on my list of suppliers to consider.

I assume the Reliable MPPT offerings will be housed in well-ventilated metal casings, like their inverters, while my assumption of the EPEVER offering you linked to is that that is a plastic housing.

A more solid housing alone is not a sufficient upgrade to justify being the guinea pig for a new product offering, so I appreciate the recommendation and will study the specs.

Any other budget brands you suggest I consider (especially if they are less expensive than ‘up there’ with EPEVER & Reliable)?

 

[DThames]

"Any other budget brands you suggest I consider (especially if they are less expensive than ‘up there’ with EPEVER & Reliable)?"

Will has some videos on charge controllers, worth watching. My experience with MPPT (beyond tiny MPPT units) is limited to 2 EPever Tracer units. One a 10amp, one a 40amp. I am very budget minded as well. I bought several cheap PWM type and they work okay but parameter options are not great. I mean it is hard to set (if possible) user specific battery charge levels. There are now similar MPPT units available, that are super low cost. At this cost, a person could get one to save initial overall costs and plan to upgrade it later. I wouldn't spend $150 on a less than good solution only to replace it with a $250 solution but I would spend $25 now and $250 later if it meant I could get a better BMS or some other part of my system. I good programmable charger was important to me because I have second life (used) LiFePo4 batteries and I want to have the charge cutoff lower because some cells tend to hit higher voltage before the other cells do.

I don't think I would trust a cheap unit, unattended, in my house/garage. Maybe if it was de-rated but at rated load they can be marginal. I ran my 10amp Tracer at rated load and it didn't even get more than warm. My 40amp, is currently limited by the solar input, so not had it up to full power yet.

 

[oldman]

I was wondering about this product from santan

Fangpuson 50A MPPT Charge Controller - SanTan Solar Store

Fangpuson 50A MPPT Solar Charge Controller

store.santansolar.com

Any thoughts?

 

[fafrd]

"Any other budget brands you suggest I consider (especially if they are less expensive than ‘up there’ with EPEVER & Reliable)?"

Will has some videos on charge controllers, worth watching. My experience with MPPT (beyond tiny MPPT units) is limited to 2 EPever Tracer units. One a 10amp, one a 40amp. I am very budget minded as well. I bought several cheap PWM type and they work okay but parameter options are not great. I mean it is hard to set (if possible) user specific battery charge levels. There are now similar MPPT units available, that are super low cost.

Got one of those - they are so small, so cheaply-made, and so unlikely to safely handle rated current over any sustainable period that I draw the line on savings there and would never want one in my house.

At this cost, a person could get one to save initial overall costs and plan to upgrade it later. I wouldn't spend $150 on a less than good solution only to replace it with a $250 solution but I would spend $25 now and $250 later if it meant I could get a better BMS or some other part of my system. I good programmable charger was important to me because I have second life (used) LiFePo4 batteries and I want to have the charge cutoff lower because some cells tend to hit higher voltage before the other cells do.

I don't think I would trust a cheap unit, unattended, in my house/garage. Maybe if it was de-rated but at rated load they can be marginal. I ran my 10amp Tracer at rated load and it didn't even get more than warm. My 40amp, is currently limited by the solar input, so not had it up to full power yet.

Precisely. There is savings on off-branding, there is savings on lack of warranty, and then there is savings on lack of build-quality / safety.

I’m OK saving ~50% on those first two but not willing to compromise build quality just to save a few $$$.

That’s why these new Reliable MPPTs caught my attention - the Build Quality of Reliable Inverters is very solid and I’d have no concerns about safety with them (assuming their MPPT controllers have the same build quality, as they appear to).

The issue with buying any of this budget stuff from China is that it’s like being in a carnival mirror room. - impossible to know who you are really buying from.

The fact that EPEVER seems to have as solid of a reputation on the Forum as it does is a big vote of confidence for me.

I agree that you can afford to take more risk on a less-known product if it is very inexpensive with the roadmap to upgrade later. But even in that case, I would not want to be the guinea pig on safety if the build quality looks sketchy.

PowerMr seems to have pretty mixed reviews here on the Forum and then there are those boxy Red/Blue/Yellow MPPTs that all seem to be the same build but are sold under 100 different names - have not found any reviews on those but am less comfortable when tracking down the base manufacturer seems impossible...

 

[fafrd]

I was wondering about this product from santan

Fangpuson 50A MPPT Charge Controller - SanTan Solar Store

Fangpuson 50A MPPT Solar Charge Controller

store.santansolar.com

Any thoughts?

Plastic housing and 50A / 1.4kW just doesn’t add up for me. EPEVER also appears to be housed in plastic, so perhaps I’m off-base on this concern.

But I feel like for that kind of money there are more known / safer offerings to me had than to be the first to try a new no-name.

Through AliExpress, those 60A MPPT controllers from Reliable are on sale for $150 and I’d prefer to spend another $20/15% on their build quality and reputation (in the inverter space) than be the first to try one if these...

 

[DThames]

Plastic housing and 50A / 1.4kW just doesn’t add up for me. EPEVER also appears to be housed in plastic, so perhaps I’m off-base on this concern.

But I feel like for that kind of money there are more known / safer offerings to me had than to be the first to try a new no-name.

Through AliExpress, those 60A MPPT controllers from Reliable are on sale for $150 and I’d prefer to spend another $20/15% on their build quality and reputation (in the inverter space) than be the first to try one if these...

The EPEver in the top of the image has a finned AL base and a plastic cover (I have this model). EPEver in the lower image has AL case, from what I understand. The second one has a max PV input of 150v, while the top one is 100v. I am sure there are other differences.

 

[fafrd]

The price is right up there with the EPEver offering. EPEver is a known product. The new guy would need to offer something special to be worth trying the new guy.

Since I started this thread, I’ve now come to grips with a great deal more of my requirements/specifications:

-150V maximum input voltage
-60A charge current
-24V, 36V and 48V charging capability (future-proofing)
-temperature sensor
-mppt range ideally starting at Vbattery + 2V but no higher than 34V

From Epever, the 6415AN fits the bill and is $240 on Amazon. It’s rated for 1500W of charge power (meaning 60A @ 25V or only 50A @ 30V).

From Reliable, the 60A model fits the bill and is $200 on Amazon. It’s rated for 1800W of charge power, meaning 60A at 30V.

The Reliable model costs $17% less, has 20% more charging power, and is enclosed in a metal casing rather than plastic, so I’m seriously considering it.

Are there other characteristics of the Epever that make it’s owners so happy with it?

it obviously has a longer track record of happy MPPT customers, so that gap is there regardless. But Reliable has a good reputation in the PSW inverter world, and I’m a happy customer of their 3000A PSW inverter and appreciate their build quality, so I’m probably not ready to steer away from them for that aspect alone, especially if they seem as good or superior to Epever in all important areas.

Are there other important specs or capabilities I am over looking? I’ve never used a charge controller before (Microinverters only).

 

[DThames]

My 40A EPever, I understand (had to learn so bias) how to configure it so that I would stay inside my own battery charging limits. It allows good customization on charging values. I would look for that feature, at least for me. Also, the EPever 40a needs #6 wire and it says it will take that wire size, but I don't think it would take any larger size. So I would also look at the wire terminals, specifically the one to the battery, as this one will have more current than from the panels. I can't find a Youtube review on it.

Better than Amazon, not sure of shipping.

Comments about programming SSC, in general. Note Will doesn't recommend connecting EPEver to PC but if you know how to figure stuff like that out, it is not super hard. I agree it is clunky if you don't use it often enough to remember the steps.

No information on how you connect to a PC with the RS-485 port.

 

[DThames]

edited, duplicate

 

[fafrd]

My 40A EPever, I understand (had to learn so bias) how to configure it so that I would stay inside my own battery charging limits. It allows good customization on charging values. I would look for that feature, at least for me. Also, the EPever 40a needs #6 wire and it says it will take that wire size, but I don't think it would take any larger size. So I would also look at the wire terminals, specifically the one to the battery, as this one will have more current than from the panels. I can't find a Youtube review on it.

Better than Amazon, not sure of shipping.

Comments about programming SSC, in general. Note Will doesn't recommend connecting EPEver to PC but if you know how to figure stuff like that out, it is not super hard. I agree it is clunky if you don't use it often enough to remember the steps.

No information on how you connect to a PC with the RS-485 port.

Yeah, as far as programmability for charging limits, I understand all of that and will be certain the Reliable is at least as programmable as the Epever.

And also on cable size, I’d already checked that the Reliable accepts at least the same cable size as the Epever.

What I’m struggling to understand now is ‘MPPT Voltage Range’ and what that means in the real world.

For 24V charging, the Epever has an MPPT range of Vbattery + 2V. I believe Vbattery is a reference to the actual voltage of the battery meaning 28.4V if I want to get my 8S LiFePO4 charger all the way up to 3.55V / cell.

So if I want my LiFePO charging to 28.4V, minimum Vmppt will be 30.4v and I think that means I need panels with Voc of >30.4V or the Epever will just clamp voltage at the minimum of 30.4V where current output will be 0A.

If this understanding is correct, the Reliable inverter is slightly worse since it has a minimum MPPT voltage of 34V, meaning it will only function with panels whose Voc exceeds 34V.

I’ve never used a charge controller before and realize I’m not fully understanding how the MPPT function works. Is it as follows:

-Vminmppt clamped on output until current starts being output by PV array at that voltage.

-Once current output is recognized, Vmppt increased on increments until power (current x Vmppt) declines.

-Once battery is charged and current from PV array needs to be reduced, Vmppt increased until power matches target and once power target reaches 0W, Vmppt increased to Voc or higher.

Would appreciate a confirmation of this understanding is correct. If so, it means that the Epever will work with a wider range of panels when charging 24V batteries (but in any case, either of these chargers will function much better with 2S PV strings...).

 

[DThames]

My understanding of MPPTs are that they are DC to DC converters. Most down convert but a few up convert. So a down convert type would need an input voltage above the battery but because they are not "clamping" or doing PWM to regulate, they can have voltage way higher than the battery and be fine. You would normally get an MPPT so you can series your panels and have higher input so to lower the current for the same power. I am bringing in 80 volts to my EPEver for my 24v battery. Being higher than the min MPPT voltage would be a given under most series panels installations, if you have 60 or higher cell count on your panels (24v system).

 

[fafrd]

My understanding of MPPTs are that they are DC to DC converters. Most down convert but a few up convert. So a down convert type would need an input voltage above the battery but because they are not "clamping" or doing PWM to regulate, they can have voltage way higher than the battery and be fine. You would normally get an MPPT so you can series your panels and have higher input so to lower the current for the same power. I am bringing in 80 volts to my EPEver for my 24v battery. Being higher than the min MPPT voltage would be a given under most series panels installations, if you have 60 or higher cell count on your panels (24v system).

If there are upconverting MPPTs, that’s what I need to look for - any idea what they are called or example models?

I understand that by putting 2 panels in series I can get a lot more headroom. But the two problems that causes me are that first, I’ll need a new charge controller since 2xVoc will take me beyond the maximum input voltage of the little one I have, and second, I’ve got space for 5 panels and going 2S forces me to use one 4.

I’m looking at jumping on a deal on some used panels but am slowly realizing that picking panels for battery charging can be a lot more finicky than for microinverters ;if you have a less-than-ideal charge controller, like me).

Am I correct that you don’t need to be overly concerned about overpowering an MPPT charge controller?

As long as temperature-adjusted Voc is below the maximum Vmppt voltage, the charge controller can always reduce panel output to 0W (or any wattage above that by using voltage slightly above Voc), right?

[edit: I’ve got a 24V mppt with a maximum input voltage of 50V and I’m realizing that doesn’t leave much margin on panel selection as far as suitable Vmppt when charging an 8S LiFePO4 battery, especially when accounting for cable losses...]

 

[DThames]

50v in for a 24v system is pretty sucky. This is the only one that I recall seeing (boost type) and it is not very large. Video.

 

[DThames]

Take a look at this. Seven questions, zero answers. Support must equal zero.

 

[fafrd]

Take a look at this. Seven questions, zero answers. Support must equal zero.

I bought my WZRELB inverter through eBay, where I was in direct contact with company and received prompt and helpful responses to my questions.

For all of these Chinese vendors, they start on AliExpress, then expand to eBay, then try Amazon last.

If I decided I was interested in a product from a Chinese company, I would not turn away from them because their responsiveness on Amazon is not yet up to snuff...

As I’ve been looking into going with 3S strings, I’ve discovered one significant advantage of these WZRELB SCCs over Epevers 200V models.

The WZRELB ‘170V’ models can take up to a maximum of 170V on the string input (> 3 x Voc of my 450W panels) and have an MPPT range that extends from 34V to 150V.

150V is well-beyond 3xVmp for my panels and is just beyond 3xVoc = 148.8V but won’t quite reach 3xVoc_max on a cold day, which can reach 158V.

So I need to understand how the SCC cuts-of current in that case, which is probably based on opening a solid-state switch.

But the Vmppt range covers all the way to rated Voc on the WZRELB 170V MPPT.

Contrast this with the Epever 200V models which can withstand up to 200V on the string input but have an Vmppt range of only Vbattery + 2V to 144V.

3xVmp for my panels = 123V but on a cold day, can be as much as 131V, so the Epever delivers only 13V / +10% of remaining MPPT control range before it needs to shut down while the WXRELB delivers an additional 29V / 22% of remaining MPPT control range before needing to shut down.

Seems as though the WZRELB 170V MPPT better-supports 3S strings on newer high-power panels than the Epever 200V MPPTs...

 

[fafrd]

I found this link to the WZRELB MPPT charge controllers:

60A: https://reliableinverters.com/produ...nual-max-pv-170v-lcd-full-touch-screen-design

40A: https://reliableinverters.com/produ...l-touch-screen-design-solar-charge-controller

Both have a 24V Vmppt range of 34-150V and a 48V Vmppt range of 65-150V.

So for my 450W panels w/ Vmp of 41V, I can charge a 24V battery with a 1S string but it cannot activate even a single bypass diode (26.83V) and I will need at least a 2S string to charge a 48V battery where a maximum of a single bypass diode from both panels in series could be activated (67.83V).

A 2S string would allow up to 3 bypass diodes to be activated when charging a 24V battery (39.5V) and a 3S string would allow up to 4 bypass diodes (1-1/3 panels) to be activated when charging a 48V battery (66.3V).

If not already clear from my focus, I’m dealing with some partial-shading issues and trying to find out which MPPT charge controller will function best with my panels in that situation.

 

[fafrd]

50v in for a 24v system is pretty sucky. This is the only one that I recall seeing (boost type) and it is not very large. Video.

Yeah, I’m understanding I need to plan for long enough strings to get the voltage up high enough for efficient charging of my battery...