Any idea why this happened? Is the moisture inside from an exploded battery cell?

[vtjballeng]

These are Weize batteries and it's water ingress. We've had ~60 in the field and over half of them have failed now. The epoxy is too hard for the flexible plastic, and the epoxy was inconsistently applied. One good rainstorm and then it's a countdown timer before failure.

 

[wpns]

These are Weize batteries and it's water ingress. We've had ~60 in the field and over half of them have failed now. The epoxy is too hard for the flexible plastic, and the epoxy was inconsistently applied. One good rainstorm and then it's a countdown timer before failure.


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What’s the IP rating and who leaves batteries out in the rain?

 

[vtjballeng]

IP65, which far exceeds rainy or bad weather. The OP left the battery out and our installations have the batteries outdoors as well. There are obvious use cases for outdoor batteries in exposed conditions, which is why we chose batteries with weather ratings that far exceed our installation use case.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I also love the narrow strips of strapping holding the cells together. That's awesome (not).

Frankly that build quality sucks.

 

[Will Prowse]

These are Weize batteries and it's water ingress. We've had ~60 in the field and over half of them have failed now. The epoxy is too hard for the flexible plastic, and the epoxy was inconsistently applied. One good rainstorm and then it's a countdown timer before failure.


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That's the worst looking weize battery I've ever seen. What model? Really bad build quality

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

IP65, which far exceeds rainy or bad weather. The OP left the battery out and our installations have the batteries outdoors as well. There are obvious use cases for outdoor batteries in exposed conditions, which is why we chose batteries with weather ratings that far exceed our installation use case.

Some may disagree, but I personally would never sit any of these batteries out in the rain, even if they claim water resistance ratings.

I mean heck, I have some water resistant equipment that ~should~ be fine in a storm, but I still put it under something covered where water can't hit it. I know it's not always practical, but for me, personally, a battery is going to at least go under cover or in some kind of additional weather resistant enclosure.

But who am I to say, I think Will and others have just left these types of batteries out in the direct elements and they've run fine. It spooks me too much though.

 

[Skypower]

A lot of fiber strapping has a lot of stretch over time. Could it be that when the cells expanded and that it put a lot of strain on the terminal. That flex hump in the buss bar is pretty useless.

 

[robbob2112]

Some may disagree, but I personally would never sit any of these batteries out in the rain, even if they claim water resistance ratings.

I mean heck, I have some water resistant equipment that ~should~ be fine in a storm, but I still put it under something covered where water can't hit it. I know it's not always practical, but for me, personally, a battery is going to at least go under cover or in some kind of additional weather resistant enclosure.

But who am I to say, I think Will and others have just left these types of batteries out in the direct elements and they've run fine. It spooks me too much though.

Well there is that, but how often does Will get rain where he is at? Once a century?

Seriously I would have some sort of shed or cover to keep direct rain/weather off of them.... Otherwise they will sit and get dirt/dust on top and then when it rains that could turn conductive and cause problems...

 

[wpns]

Some may disagree, but I personally would never sit any of these batteries out in the rain, even if they claim water resistance ratings.

I mean heck, I have some water resistant equipment that ~should~ be fine in a storm, but I still put it under something covered where water can't hit it. I know it's not always practical, but for me, personally, a battery is going to at least go under cover or in some kind of additional weather resistant enclosure.

But who am I to say, I think Will and others have just left these types of batteries out in the direct elements and they've run fine. It spooks me too much though.

This. Yes, you _can_ (*) but should you?

(*) Well, you think you can, and the mfr lies and tells you you can, but now you are destroying $400 (or $700) batteries and even _IF_ the mfr stand behind the warranty and ships you new batteries, you are out the replacement labor and transportation costs.

I'm in a marine environment, and even things like TV sets indoors have a 3-year lifetime, so I take all possible reasonable precautions.

 

[SunDave]

This and the thread where people were talking about starting to use lithium batteries for car starting batteries have some serious potential to talk. They will actually get sprayed with water in a car. Scary stuff. Can't rely on one perfect seal and then consider it good. Systems should be robust enough to not require perfection.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

This and the thread where people were talking about starting to use lithium batteries for car starting batteries have some serious potential to talk. They will actually get sprayed with water in a car. Scary stuff. Can't rely on one perfect seal and then consider it good. Systems should be robust enough to not require perfection.

I posted in that thread to similar effect, even under the hood, engine compartment environments are pretty extreme.

As others said, probably less of a big deal when the battery is inside the cab.

 

[vtjballeng]

That's the worst looking weize battery I've ever seen. What model? Really bad build quality

Their 200ah model. WEIZE 12V 200Ah 2560Wh Lithium Battery, Deep Cycle LiFePO4 Battery

Some may disagree, but I personally would never sit any of these batteries out in the rain, even if they claim water resistance ratings.

I mean heck, I have some water resistant equipment that ~should~ be fine in a storm, but I still put it under something covered where water can't hit it. I know it's not always practical, but for me, personally, a battery is going to at least go under cover or in some kind of additional weather resistant enclosure.

But who am I to say, I think Will and others have just left these types of batteries out in the direct elements and they've run fine. It spooks me too much though.

IP65 is an objective, measurable rating that far exceeds a storm. Same as 200ah is an objective, measurable rating for example.

The logical process that leads to no accountability for the IP65 rating extends to other objective metrics. So, if we follow that logic to it's conclusion and treat AH ratings like the IP rating scale, it's equivalent to saying we shouldn't expect 200ah from a 200ah battery. We should instead arrange more AHs (or weatherproofing) to meet the original stated AH (or weatherproofing) rating. So, only expect 100ah from a 200ah battery and get 2 of them to be secure in achieving your 200ah need. This while telling the user it was wasn't a good idea to expect 200ah from a 200ah battery.

Since I don't think most people would apply that logic with AH ratings, the IP rating is no different. Except that people are less familiar with it and it's more difficult to test.

In this case, IP65 was easily achieved by using a more flexible epoxy or silicone with a slight overfill and wipe process during manufacturing and improved QC. A self-leveling, flexible epoxy would have prevented the voids entirely for example in the adhesive U channels. Unfortunately, that's not what they chose to do and the warranty claims, field failures, product problems, and reputational damage will far exceed the cost of those simple process quality choices imo.

 

[wpns]

In this case, IP65 was easily achieved by using a more flexible epoxy or silicone with a slight overfill and wipe process during manufacturing and improved QC. A self-leveling, flexible epoxy would have prevented the voids entirely for example in the adhesive U channels. Unfortunately, that's not what they chose to do and the warranty claims, field failures, product problems, and reputational damage will far exceed the cost of those simple process quality choices imo.

Sounds like mfg changed the materials and/or process without retesting for IP rating. But that’s Chinese “Ship It” quality for you.

 

[740GLE]

I’m curious what the life of the battery was. Was it a mobile application or stationary set up.

I wonder if an impact of possibly dropping the battery (maybe during shipping?) could have contributed to the issue.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

The logical process that leads to no accountability for the IP65 rating extends to other objective metrics. So, if we follow that logic to it's conclusion and treat AH ratings like the IP rating scale, it's equivalent to saying we shouldn't expect 200ah from a 200ah battery. We should instead arrange more AHs (or weatherproofing) to meet the original stated AH (or weatherproofing) rating. So, only expect 100ah from a 200ah battery and get 2 of them to be secure in achieving your 200ah need. This while telling the user it was wasn't a good idea to expect 200ah from a 200ah battery.

I mean sure, but we're not talking about some US based company that is submitting all their products to be tested by UL or something.

I am just being pragmatic, we are talking about Amazon-seller Chinese battery companies here.

Would I trust a Tesla PowerWall, EP Cube, etc. to have acceptable QC and be properly weatherproofed? Yeah, probably.

If LiTime told me my 230Ah battery I bought from them was weatherproof/had an IPx rating? Yeah I wouldn't even try.

To each their own though!

 

[WorldwideDave]

2 pages in...are we concluding that this failed because it got wet on the outside somehow, and water got in, and the water getting in is what caused 2 of the OP cells to burst open?
Or is it - based on my experience - that an OEM off-brand/knock off BMS didn't function properly in some way and overcharged a cell or two?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Sounds like mfg changed the materials and/or process without retesting for IP rating. But that’s Chinese “Ship It” quality for you.

or their actual lack of quality control to begin with.

 

[Sam Cho TX]

The battery was in perfect condition until I ripped the cells apart.

send these pictures to @Alkaline and see what he thinks of the qr code, usually the qr code is supposed to be next to the vent.