Anyone able to figure out an Elgris Zero Export Controller?

[the_uglydog]

Has anyone actually set up one of these Elgris Zero Export Controllers? I have one but cant figure out how to get it to talk to my Growatt inverter, I’ve been told by others that have them and sales info that it communicates if I get an antenna for it but the company says it needs a direct wire, but no further explanation. Also I can’t figure out how to set up their e-cloud to reset the values on the system. I have all the manuals but the website to set up the cloud account doesn’t look like the manuals say it does. I know a few others with these things, they can’t figure out how to get set up on the cloud either so no one can set up zero export. Can’t get a coherent answer from the company. Any help would be greatly appreciated. That’s about it. the dog

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

Somehow, it must be able to communicate with your inverter. If the Growatt inverter is on their list, then I guess they know how to talk with it.

 

[the_uglydog]

Hi, Yes the Growatt is on the Elgris list, I gave them the serial number, but, I have since found out from Growatt that "this" inverter has no function for zero export. I wish Growatt had told me that the reason I couldn't find one of their zero meters for this inverter was that it can't do zero instead of, the meter isn't available right now! As far as Elgis goes, it was of absolutely no help at all. I think it is one of those companies that is run by engineers who understand what they built, but can't understand that people who didn't build their product don't know how it works. What I have decided to do is connect a breaker box that feeds a number of our apartments with submeters ahead of the breaker box we use this for, that way the extra use from those will absorb all the export. That's about it. the dog

 

[fafrd]

Bummer.

Will these work with any battery-powered grid-tie inverters?

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

I think the idea behind this Elgris unit is that it supplies the current sense and power flow direction and know how to tell the particular grid-tie inverter on the "list" of capable inverters when to turn down the juice so that it doesn't sell back out its input. Not sure HOW each inverter would be told this. Maybe some of them actually have to be turned "OFF" ?

Elgris may just know the communications format for all these inverters and act accordingly ?

So the Growatt would not have to support net-zero itself. It would just have to be able to be controlled I am guessing.

boB

 

[fafrd]

I think the idea behind this Elgris unit is that it supplies the current sense and power flow direction and know how to tell the particular grid-tie inverter on the "list" of capable inverters when to turn down the juice so that it doesn't sell back out its input. Not sure HOW each inverter would be told this. Maybe some of them actually have to be turned "OFF" ?

Elgris may just know the communications format for all these inverters and act accordingly ?

So the Growatt would not have to support net-zero itself. It would just have to be able to be controlled I am guessing.

boB

Most solar inverters convert all of the available solar energy to AC unless they are on the Elgis list (in which case excess solar energy is wasted).

Most PSW battery-powered inverters are not grid-tied and convert however much battery energy is needed to supply loads.

I was asking about a battery-powered grid-tie inverter with control input / protocol similar to the solar inverters...

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

Schneider Electric XW inverters, SMA Sunny Island, OutBack Power, Sol-Ark and some other battery based inverters can sell to grid or, the other way, help with generator (gen-support) or grid from the battery when the AC input is not powerful enough.

This Elgis unit would have to know their communications protocol OR communicate with some other method to turn down the support power so that it doesn't flow out of the input. I don't think the ones I mentioned are "open" on their communications protocols ? But some of these, like the Sol-Ark already supply an external current transformer just for this purpose.

Some of the grid-tie only inverter can reduce power (wasted power) with changing grid-frequency.

fafrd and most here more than likely knew this already but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

 

[fafrd]

Schneider Electric XW inverters, SMA Sunny Island, OutBack Power, Sol-Ark and some other battery based inverters can sell to grid or, the other way, help with generator (gen-support) or grid from the battery when the AC input is not powerful enough.

This Elgis unit would have to know their communications protocol OR communicate with some other method to turn down the support power so that it doesn't flow out of the input. I don't think the ones I mentioned are "open" on their communications protocols ? But some of these, like the Sol-Ark already supply an external current transformer just for this purpose.

Some of the grid-tie only inverter can reduce power (wasted power) with changing grid-frequency.

fafrd and most here more than likely knew this already but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

Yes, I’d known that SolArk, Schneider, Outback, etc... hybrid inverters can limit export when powered by battery, but those are in-line (between main panel and critical loads subpanel).

I also know about battery-powered inverters like this one that have a clamp sensor and can limit export without being in line (they can provide power in parallel with the grid): https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Lim...ocphy=9032080&hvtargid=pla-523294429130&psc=1

What I did not know about before stumbling upon this thread was that ‘zero export controllers’ like this model from Elgis existed as well as some sort of control protocol that allows a zero export controller to limit enabled inverter output through some RS485 communication.

The partners they list as supporting their zero export controller mostly make string inverters (meaning powered from a solar array, not a battery).

Hence my question to understand whether their are any battery-powered grid-tie inverters that support this RD485 power-limit protocol?

With a solar-powered inverter, whatever power you limit because it would export gets wasted.

With a battery-powered inverter, whatever power you limit because it would export remains in the battery...

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

I don't think that Y&H 1000W Grid Tie Inverter works with batteries ? BUT I see something about a battery discharge spec which I am guessing must be an auxiliary output for controlling a battery dump load.

I think it is just PV to grid but can stop exporting at wherever you put the clamp. It only takes up to 60V Voc input but that probably works fine with 2 or 3 of 72 cell PV modules in parallel.
So, this is like a micro-inverter but not mounted to the module AND the current transformer. That I like! AND for less than $300. Not too bad.

And you can plug it right into your wall plug with the IEC connector on the side. I doubt it has an NRTL listing of course but still...


EDIT: Check out the other inverters that look like the Y&H but with different company names and slightly different specs.

Amazon.com: Marsrock 1000W PV Grid Tie Inverter Power Limiter Wide Voltage 22-60VDC for Solar Panel Input AC110V/220V Auto Switch (1000W24V): Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com: Marsrock 1000W PV Grid Tie Inverter Power Limiter Wide Voltage 22-60VDC for Solar Panel Input AC110V/220V Auto Switch (1000W24V): Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

AND this one

https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-Switch-Inverter-Limiter-System/dp/B076KBCHBM/ref=pd_di_sccai_11?pd_rd_w=nEh6r&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=4VFVAGTHRVR9KM5BEKDV&pd_rd_r=04cf040c-9e56-449b-9831-1e78b852f132&pd_rd_wg=rwnVD&pd_rd_i=B076KBCHBM&psc=1

 

[fafrd]

I don't think that Y&H 1000W Grid Tie Inverter works with batteries ? BUT I see something about a battery discharge spec which I am guessing must be an auxiliary output for controlling a battery dump load.

I own two and have powered them both off of the same 24V LiFePO4 battery. They state a 48V battery is required but the minimum turn-on voltage is 22V, so they will operate with a 24V battery (but just).

I think it is just PV to grid but can stop exporting at wherever you put the clamp. It only takes up to 60V Voc input but that probably works fine with 2 or 3 of 72 cell PV modules in parallel.
So, this is like a micro-inverter but not mounted to the module AND the current transformer. That I like! AND for less than $300. Not too bad.

And you can plug it right into your wall plug with the IEC connector on the side. I doubt it has an NRTL listing of course but still...


EDIT: Check out the other inverters that look like the Y&H but with different company names and slightly different specs.

Amazon.com: Marsrock 1000W PV Grid Tie Inverter Power Limiter Wide Voltage 22-60VDC for Solar Panel Input AC110V/220V Auto Switch (1000W24V): Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com: Marsrock 1000W PV Grid Tie Inverter Power Limiter Wide Voltage 22-60VDC for Solar Panel Input AC110V/220V Auto Switch (1000W24V): Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

AND this one

https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-Switch-Inverter-Limiter-System/dp/B076KBCHBM/ref=pd_di_sccai_11?pd_rd_w=nEh6r&pf_rd_p=c9443270-b914-4430-a90b-72e3e7e784e0&pf_rd_r=4VFVAGTHRVR9KM5BEKDV&pd_rd_r=04cf040c-9e56-449b-9831-1e78b852f132&pd_rd_wg=rwnVD&pd_rd_i=B076KBCHBM&psc=1

There is a 1kW model (which operates down to 22V) and a 2kW model (which operates down to 44V). There are various reseller ‘brands’ but the manufacturer is SUN and the model # is SUN-1000G2 (1kW) and SUN-2000G2 (2kW).

The reason to purchase (from whatever brand) through Amazon is that you can test and return if not satisfied.

I bought 2, tested them both, and was satisfied enough with the performance and the functionality, so I kept them.

Long-term reliability will always be a concern for any Chinese no-name product this inexpensive, but the fact that I was able to power 2 800W space heaters from the same 24V battery for ~2 hours straight without drawing any energy from the grid for under $600 is impressive.

Connected directly to solar panels, these will only be able to offset some or all consumption in real-time and any additional solar power available beyond what can be immediately consumed will be wasted.

I will be using my solar array to charge up a battery during the day and using two SUN-1000G2s to power loads off of that stored battery energy in the evening, when out electric rate per kWh doubles...

These GTIL inverters are an attractive solution for time-shift because they do not require much of any rewiring (ie: don’t need critical loads panel).

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

Maybe you could take a picture of your setup or show a drawing of how you have your batteries connected to this

I cannot see anything that talks about actually connecting up a batter. I have to assume that you are connecting the battery and solar in parallel and if your version of this inverter has a dump load output, keeps the battery voltage from over-charging the battery using that method which is a common way that used to be done. Except that this unit will also technically grid tie.
The Amazon link showed an inverter that did not mention batteries I don't think ?

Saw this YouTube video and a manual for a wind version (came up first in a Google search)

https://www.windstroom.nu/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Manual-Sun-Series-Inverter-AirTurb.pdf

SUN Series Grid Tie Power Inverter (For Wind Turbines)

 

[fafrd]

Maybe you could take a picture of your setup or show a drawing of how you have your batteries connected to this

I cannot see anything that talks about actually connecting up a batter. I have to assume that you are connecting the battery and solar in parallel and if your version of this inverter has a dump load output, keeps the battery voltage from over-charging the battery using that method which is a common way that used to be done. Except that this unit will also technically grid tie.
The Amazon link showed an inverter that did not mention batteries I don't think ?

Saw this YouTube video and a manual for a wind version (came up first in a Google search)

https://www.windstroom.nu/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Manual-Sun-Series-Inverter-AirTurb.pdf

SUN Series Grid Tie Power Inverter (For Wind Turbines)

Right off of the Amazon Y&H listing: https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Limiter-DC25-60V-AC110V-Switch/dp/B07GC53QBD

-Grid Tie Inverter DC Input 22-60V(Starting Voltage 26V)

-Grid Tie Inverter with Limiter Sensor.Delivers only the power needed by the load

Voc (solar panel) must not exceed 60V to ensure good output efficiency

-with Battery discharge power mode, Can auto regulate depth of discharge of the battery bank.1

And further down in specs:

-Only use the 36V/48V battery to power the inverter

-Use a battery to power the inverter, please use a circuit breaker.

I charge my battery through a separate MPPT charge controller. The output of the charge controller, the DC input to the GTIL inverter, and the battery are all connected in parallel.

There is no dump-load because the MPPT charge controller will automatically solar power once the battery is fully charged.

The GTIL is a load and in my case, controlled through a lamp timer to only turn on during peak hours after the sun has gone down...

The Amazon specs say 36-48V battery minimum but since the turn-on voltage is 26V, I tested it with my 24V LiFePO4 battery and it works as long as the battery is charged above 26V when the unit is first turned on by connecting to grid.

If you want to discharge a 24V LiFePO4 battery all the way to 0% SOC @ 20.0V, you cannot get that low with this inverter. But as long as the battery is charged above 26V when the inverter is first connected to AC power, it will discharge all the way down to 22V (which is pretty close to completely empty, at 2.75V / cell).

I have not looked into their ‘wind turbine’ version - that is a different product...

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

"I charge my battery through a separate MPPT charge controller."

OK, that makes sense and that is why it all works. What you are actually doing is connecting up the battery instead of a solar panel to the inverter's PV input which operates over a wide range. But connecting the battery directly to the PV input and using a dump load to regulate means you don't get MPPT with this inverter.

You have done it the right way by using a separate controller.

 

[fafrd]

"I charge my battery through a separate MPPT charge controller."

OK, that makes sense and that is why it all works. What you are actually doing is connecting up the battery instead of a solar panel to the inverter's PV input which operates over a wide range. But connecting the battery directly to the PV input and using a dump load to regulate means you don't get MPPT with this inverter.

You have done it the right way by using a separate controller.

Correct, the MPPT capability of the inverter itself is being wasted (unused),

My main goal is escaping the absurd new after-the-sun-goes-down peak rates being imposed by my utility ($0.45/kWh!) and this seems like the most affordable way to get there...

Eventually, I hope we’ll see cost-effective solutions that ditch the MPPT (or fancier hybrid solutions with 2 DC inputs + a solar battery charger...).

 

[the_uglydog]

I think the idea behind this Elgris unit is that it supplies the current sense and power flow direction and know how to tell the particular grid-tie inverter on the "list" of capable inverters when to turn down the juice so that it doesn't sell back out its input. Not sure HOW each inverter would be told this. Maybe some of them actually have to be turned "OFF" ?

Elgris may just know the communications format for all these inverters and act accordingly ?

So the Growatt would not have to support net-zero itself. It would just have to be able to be controlled I am guessing.

boB

Yes! That's exactly how it's supposed to work, but the instructions from them are horrible, on a par with the worst instructions I've ever gotten from China. I couldn't get it to communicate with the inverter at all and discussed it with Growatt, they said it can't work with my inverter, although their newer inverters would work. I tried other things as well, a thing that shuts down one string of panels, it doesn't work well. What I'm doing is putting 4 of our apartments that are sub metered into the circuit so that we will always be using more than we generate. I had really not wanted to get any of the apartments involved, but it's my only workable option. That's about it. the dog

 

[fafrd]

I spoke to my Microinverter supplier (NEP) and they said they now offer a solution based on these type of zero-export control boards.

RS485 cable from control board to their gateway and then PLC from the gateway to the Microinverters to throttle-back energy consumption before export exceeds any preprogrammed limit.

So this RS485 control seems to be fairly bleeding-edge but is emerging/maturing...

 

[road glide]

We purchased Elgris Zero export controller last fall....Can't get it to work properly. When turned on, our solar array (5K) goes up to what ever the sun is giving. NO throttling of energy feed in . Also the SMA Sunny Boy 41 (ours) and 40 only have speedwire, no ethernet.
But IMO, these Zero export controllers DO not work with split-phase 120/240, only single and 3 phase...which is why they don't respond to the system here in the USA. When purchased they send 3 CT clamps and the controller. Their instructions (on line) talk about single phase (use one CT Clamp on incoming grid) and 3 phase.....but they actually don't mention split phase........I am not sure if they understand what split phase is, because most of their clients are using 3 phase. Europe?

 

[fafrd]

We purchased Elgris Zero export controller last fall....Can't get it to work properly. When turned on, our solar array (5K) goes up to what ever the sun is giving. NO throttling of energy feed in . Also the SMA Sunny Boy 41 (ours) and 40 only have speedwire, no ethernet.
But [b{IMO, these Zero export controllers DO not work with split-phase 120/240,[/b] only single and 3 phase...which is why they don't respond to the system here in the USA. When purchased they send 3 CT clamps and the controller. Their instructions (on line) talk about single phase (use one CT Clamp on incoming grid) and 3 phase.....but they actually don't mention split phase........I am not sure if they understand what split phase is, because most of their clients are using 3 phase. Europe?

Pretty sure that is correct.

To make this work in the US, you need 2 controllers and 2 inverters (one per leg).

There may be other ways involving an Autotransformer, but the safest way to be absolutely certain you are not exporting is to separately monitor and feed each leg (treat it like 2 120V single-phase systems).

 

[the_uglydog]

We purchased Elgris Zero export controller last fall....Can't get it to work properly. When turned on, our solar array (5K) goes up to what ever the sun is giving. NO throttling of energy feed in . Also the SMA Sunny Boy 41 (ours) and 40 only have speedwire, no ethernet.
But IMO, these Zero export controllers DO not work with split-phase 120/240, only single and 3 phase...which is why they don't respond to the system here in the USA. When purchased they send 3 CT clamps and the controller. Their instructions (on line) talk about single phase (use one CT Clamp on incoming grid) and 3 phase.....but they actually don't mention split phase........I am not sure if they understand what split phase is, because most of their clients are using 3 phase. Europe?

That thing I was telling you about that cuts output from one of the strings couldn't handle the voltage or amps my system puts out so I fried the relay in it. What I'm going to use it for, it does a great job detecting export, I'm just going to have it monitor the feed line after I add those apartments to the same circuit! That should keep me out of export all the time, if it's not enough I'll add in the pumps for the irrigation system and set them to run between 11AM and 1PM. That's about it. the dog

 

[Cheap 4-life]

I own two and have powered them both off of the same 24V LiFePO4 battery. They state a 48V battery is required but the minimum turn-on voltage is 22V, so they will operate with a 24V battery (but just).



There is a 1kW model (which operates down to 22V) and a 2kW model (which operates down to 44V). There are various reseller ‘brands’ but the manufacturer is SUN and the model # is SUN-1000G2 (1kW) and SUN-2000G2 (2kW).

The reason to purchase (from whatever brand) through Amazon is that you can test and return if not satisfied.

I bought 2, tested them both, and was satisfied enough with the performance and the functionality, so I kept them.

Long-term reliability will always be a concern for any Chinese no-name product this inexpensive, but the fact that I was able to power 2 800W space heaters from the same 24V battery for ~2 hours straight without drawing any energy from the grid for under $600 is impressive.

Connected directly to solar panels, these will only be able to offset some or all consumption in real-time and any additional solar power available beyond what can be immediately consumed will be wasted.

I will be using my solar array to charge up a battery during the day and using two SUN-1000G2s to power loads off of that stored battery energy in the evening, when out electric rate per kWh doubles...

These GTIL inverters are an attractive solution for time-shift because they do not require much of any rewiring (ie: don’t need critical loads panel).

They also make a 1000w inverter that an use 45-90v battery just like the 2000w version