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Anyone ever build a system to run efficiently @ 11,100 ft?

C

Crafty Sasquatch

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Danger advanced forum helpers only allowed to read past this point!!!

Does anyone know of a manufacture that has system components that can run efficiently at such a high altitude?

Many manufactures have told me their systems can not run at that altitude and lose up to 40% efficiency.

This project is financed with shoestrings and a prayer so please no Cadillac options like Sol-Ark allowed.
 
It's all about air flow for cooling. Keep them cool and they will be fine.
They don't suffer nose bleeds because of the altitude :ROFLMAO:
 
I have worked in the electric motor industry for 40+ years (engineering office not field work). When a customer needs to operate either at high altitude or at high ambient temperature we will do the math and de-rate a product to meet their needs. For example the customer might need to run a 10 HP load at x,000 feet. A 20 HP motor only delivering 10 HP motor might be what he needs, or a 30 HP if even higher. Sorry, don't know the math formulas that are used. You might Google about, heat tranfer in air at high altitudes.

For your cheap solution, you might,
1. make sure the inverter you purchase has over temp shutdown protection
2. oversize the inverter by at least twice, but I would guess maybe 3 times as large as your planned load
3. add external fans to improve heat transfer to the air
4. consider adding additional heat sink mass and surface to improve cooling...or a water circulation system to carry heat to a large heat sink, like the earth
 
One other concern I've read about is that above certain elevations, when the air gets thin. If the circuit boards aren't coated or designed correctly. They can arc and destroy themselves. I believe Schneider equipment has a lower altitude rating for this reason. This is what I've read on other sites. I have no personal experience, so take it for what it is.
Good luck! Ed
 
UpNorthMan said:
One other concern I've read about is that above certain elevations, when the air gets thin. If the circuit boards aren't coated or designed correctly. They can arc and destroy themselves. I believe Schneider equipment has a lower altitude rating for this reason. This is what I've read on other sites. I have no personal experience, so take it for what it is.
Good luck! Ed
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I'm hearing is the root of the issue. Poorly engineered electronic circuitry. Same issue the flat screen TV industry had when they first came out. Take your $4,000 flat screen to high altitudes and it would fry the circuit board in less than a week. Most humans were unaware of this little know fact unless you were a victim of a poorly designed circuit board in your brand new flat screen and had it replaced 3 times by a tech 2 hours away at the expense of the TV maker. They finally offered up a brand new upgraded unit with a circuit board that never fried again.

So from what I've been told just adding more airflow cooling could help or it might not. ie. a crap shoot on just about every low cost system from what I am finding out.

Still looking for an affordable solution to getting efficient power at 11,100k ft.....
 
UpNorthMan said:
Not sure of your requirements, but this one may be of interest.

SureSine | Pure Sine Wave Inverters - 150 to 2500 Watts

Experience reliable power with SureSine Off Grid Pure Sine Wave Inverters from Morningstar Corp.
www.morningstarcorp.com www.morningstarcorp.com
Click to expand...
Thank you and yes I should have given some basic goals.

3k Watts minimum expandable of course once the shoestrings loosen up and the prayers start being answered.

Looking for a seasoned high altitude designer/builder that wont say I use Sol-Ark on everything I build. ;-)
 
Nowhere in the manual or the datasheet for my Victron Multiplus 12/3000 can I find an elevation limitation. There is no reference to elevation or altitude at all. The Multiplus II GX has a maximum operating altitude of 2000m. I often run my Multiplus at 9000' elevation.

Below is a link for why electronics get rated up to a certain altitude.

 
HRTKD said:
Nowhere in the manual or the datasheet for my Victron Multiplus 12/3000 can I find an elevation limitation. There is no reference to elevation or altitude at all. The Multiplus II GX has a maximum operating altitude of 2000m. I often run my Multiplus at 9000' elevation.

Below is a link for why electronics get rated up to a certain altitude.

Click to expand...
Thank you. I have sent Victron my question and have not heard back yet.

Yes sir, I have read that article already and passed it on to a few solar system designers that denied altitude doesn't give electronic equipment nose bleeds.

Where are all the seasoned Pros? Are they to busy designing low altitude stuff to mess around in the forums here? I've chatted with about a half dozen designers and most of them are so busy they don't know what day it is, 4 of the designers I spoke with didn't know about any altitude issues and claimed temperature was the only issue their units have. The other 2 were to busy to give me the time of day other than they told me nothing they sell would work at that altitude.

11,100 ft aint no joke. Stuff just get amazingly more complicated once you breach the 9,000 ft barrier then exponentially more complicated from there on up. Human or machine makes no difference.
 

Danger Zone! (Advanced User Experiments Only)​

Maybe that tittle has a Bull Dog bark but once you get inside its just a bunch of Chihuahua's bouncing around playing with each other?

OK challenge accepted!
 
Get a non-vented inverter and either pressurize to sea-level or fill with SF6

FXR / VFXR Series - OutBack Power Inc

The latest, most advanced features on the industry’s most trusted and proven platform—that’s the essence of OutBack’s new FXR Series of Grid/Hybrid inverter/chargers.
outbackpower.com outbackpower.com

en.wikipedia.org

Sulfur hexafluoride - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

(there's your Danger Zone! reference)
 
Crafty Sasquatch said:
This project is financed with shoestrings and a prayer so please no Cadillac options like Sol-Ark allowed.
Click to expand...
Or crazy outlandish expensive methods to circumvent reality @ 11k ft.

Hedges said:
Get a non-vented inverter and either pressurize to sea-level or fill with SF6

FXR / VFXR Series - OutBack Power Inc

The latest, most advanced features on the industry’s most trusted and proven platform—that’s the essence of OutBack’s new FXR Series of Grid/Hybrid inverter/chargers.
outbackpower.com outbackpower.com

en.wikipedia.org

Sulfur hexafluoride - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

(there's your Danger Zone! reference)
Click to expand...

Reminder: Danger no intelligent life form existsdown here.

Gotcha!
 
I'm at 9000' feet and also trying to shoe-string it. What I've learned so far:

- Cooling is an issue, but arcing is the HUGE concern, especially with transformer-based inverters. I see 120V Growatts around, but none of the inexpensive 'all-in-one' inverters running real household loads at 240V.
- Most local distributors who work above 7000' push Victron, SolArk, and Outback.
- Magnums are/were used often, but are hard to source.
- SunGoldPower is the only LV6048 clone that doesn't document an altitude spec - their responses to inquiry does not demonstrate understanding of the very real concerns.

I'm planning on going with a 120V Victron in conjunction with an existing 240V Outback step-up transformer for the well. My understanding is absolutely not to mess around with the tempting super-cheap all-in-ones at high altitude - the physics are real and bad things can happen.

edit: Also, you're not insane. I don't see a lot of high altitude set-ups that aren't Cadillacs, and local distributors and installers are NOT interested in anything other than full-scale Porsche projects.
 
PaleBlueDotFarm said:
I'm at 9000' feet and also trying to shoe-string it. What I've learned so far:

- Cooling is an issue, but arcing is the HUGE concern, especially with transformer-based inverters. I see 120V Growatts around, but none of the inexpensive 'all-in-one' inverters running real household loads at 240V.
- Most local distributors who work above 7000' push Victron, SolArk, and Outback.
- Magnums are/were used often, but are hard to source.
- SunGoldPower is the only LV6048 clone that doesn't document an altitude spec - their responses to inquiry does not demonstrate understanding of the very real concerns.

I'm planning on going with a 120V Victron in conjunction with an existing 240V Outback step-up transformer for the well. My understanding is absolutely not to mess around with the tempting super-cheap all-in-ones at high altitude - the physics are real and bad things can happen.

edit: Also, you're not insane. I don't see a lot of high altitude set-ups that aren't Cadillacs, and local distributors and installers are NOT interested in anything other than full-scale Porsche projects.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reassurance. It seems we both have been doing our homework. You can add Signature Solar to the list of companies that said their equipmwnt would lose 40% efficiency @ that altitude and besides they wouldn't warranty it as well so in other words not sell me one.

As long as these companies will warrantee their units knowing my altitude what's to lose right?
 
rhino said:
There is this post relating to Victron that references an installation at 4500m: https://community.victronenergy.com...solar-is-only-good-for-2000m-of-altitude.html
Click to expand...
Now the question is who is going to have the best black Friday deal or will it be a cyber Monday deal?

Thanks for the Victron link. Proably the best way to get a direct answer to my queston rather than a phone jockey that has to hollar across the room the question to his boss. Yes that just happened today. Stumped another 2 design engineers.
 
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