Anyone have any experience in Solar DIY in New York State? I see bad things on the horizon....

[curiouscarbon]

if a goon comes to where i live and tells me i must install a meter on my off grid solar system that reports without my consent, simply melting them with an off grid laser seems like a pretty reasonable response

this also means that any solar hardware that requires an internet connection is a joke to me. all local administering of the system or bust. remote monitoring only for myself and authorized parties selected by me.

molon labe ??

 

[wildwestminer]

There's a complex interplay, and it's reasonable for cities/counties to make sure that homes can be safely sold - this is market liquidity, and a compelling governing interest.

That said, this can certainly be taken too far, and it depends entirely on the people elected to the positions of power.

Unfortunately, in many cases, this does mean you'll need to consider moving, or accepting the higher cost of your preferred energy source.

All that said, if the governing authority allows wells and septic systems, then they should have no problem with a completely off-grid power system, and they should have the same ability to inspect, approve/certify those installations that they have for water and sewage.

Here in Arizona, we no longer elect anyone.

 

[hwy17]

I foresee grid connection requirements going down like this:

There are two kind of off grid systems: Those that occasionally run out of power, and those that occasionally rely on generator backup.

Health and/or other public authorities have legitimate grounds to object to either of these outcomes in populated areas when grid power is available as an option to prevent them. Just as they would have legitimate grounds to object to an occupied dwelling having an unreliable water supply when a water system connection is available.

 

[zzrider]

I think the camel already tried to stick his nose under that tent with "The Affordable Care Act." The government told people that they were required to enter into a private contract with a business (buy health insurance). That part eventually got repealed, but I'm not sure how it all played out in the courts. It is clearly an overreach.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[zzrider]

I foresee grid connection requirements going down like this:

There are two kind of off grid systems: Those that occasionally run out of power, and those that occasionally rely on generator backup.

Health and/or other public authorities have legitimate grounds to object to either of these outcomes in populated areas when grid power is available as an option to prevent them. Just as they would have legitimate grounds to object to an occupied dwelling having an unreliable water supply when a water system connection is available.

And this is how nanny state government becomes overt tyranny.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

And this is how nanny state government becomes overt tyranny.

Only if you let it.

 

[zzrider]

Only if you let it.

Amen.

I didn't play along with the whole, well, you know, the thing. I'm not going to start now.

 

[Goboatingnow]

All great posts on this topic. But this is my prediction (actually we all need to stop fooling ourselves). I'm a huge fan of Solar but it is not a bright future - this is my prediction for the next decade:

1.) the Huge utilities will simply not allow the free self generation of electricity and their slow demise as a result.
2.) The direction of our society will assist the utilities in anti-capitalistic, and anti free-market innovations
3.) The utility companies will find a way to charge you for your Solar Systems to recoup lost costs (just as net metering is a failure for the big companies so is lost revenue)... How? Like this
4.) They will begin a program of monitoring residential solar systems (this will be authorized/mandated by governmental institutions).
5.) They will claim that this monitoring is for society's and the individual's best interest and to ensure efficiencies
6. ) They will charge a monthly fee for that Monitoring and will mandate that meters be installed that transmit your power production to the utility (they may claim that this is for your safety and to ensure the best experience for you)
7.) They will begin mandatory maintenance programs and service programs for residential installations and charge for this.
8.) They will establish a program of solar installation inspections - periodic (perhaps a few times a year) and they will charge dearly for this service.
9.) They will eliminate independent solar system contractors all together (wherein only the electric companies can install your system) or they will require that independent contracts belong to an "Oversight/Administration" organization run by the power companies (the power companies will charge dearly for this "Oversight" and this cost will be passed onto the consumer).
10.) They will establish rules for battery bank systems, such as must be recycled every 5 years and guess who is the only service to handle that, the electric companies and they will charge you dearly for that service.
11.) They may set limitations as to how much power you can generate via Solar and install limiting devices (for your safety of course) - since they already will have a meter on your solar system. This could destroy your plans for your solar system and your projected savings when you laid out 20 grand for the initial system.

I am 100% sure that they are evaluating what they are going to do as more and more consumers switch to Solar energy production and reduce their dependence on buying power from them. As hwy17 said "Stop Fooling yourselves" and I agree, but our awareness needs to be far deeper then merely net metering. You could spend tens of thousands on a Solar system to save money on electricity only to find that at your payback year (perhaps ten years from now), the electric companies find a way to charge you even more and your solar generation savings have basically gone up in smoke and your investment is toast.

More importantly is why we arrived at a place where one can think one can earn money by generating ekectricity.

Sad - but I think we need to stop fooling ourselves - IMHO the possibility of us generating our own electricity for free is a farce. Good for now - but let's see what happens in the future. Watch carefully where this country is heading, in general, and then apply those constructs to energy production. Individual rights and free market concepts is the only hope for individual energy production - but we are heading in the other direction.

TMN

 

[TheMadNucleus]

Hi GoBoating,

At least for me, I'm not suggesting that we need to earn money on the electricity we generate - what I am suggesting is that you can invest all this money in the process of generating your own electricity, but the Government/utilities simply will not allow you to have that for free - they will get their cut - that is the question you need to ask - How did we arrive at a place where we work to get our own electricity using modern-day innovations, big investments and our own hard work and then, the Government and the Big Utilities (working in concert to trample our freedom) take a big cut of what we generate by imposing Kafkaesque rules/regulations/and fees.

Like I posted earlier - it's fine for now - you get a payback on your solar systems - but the future, as best as a reasonable person can see it - says differently. The Big Utilities are already planning on how they can capitalize on your Solar system, and the poor resident will likely pay dearly for those plans. Ultimately, their solar systems may be no better financially then continuing to use the grid - at least in the future when this all plays out.

The first really big flag will be when they are mandated to place meters on all home Solar systems. Those meters will simply transmit your solar system generation stats to the utilities "just for record-keeping purposes" and to "ensure safety". That will be their foot-in-the-door.


TMN

 

[curiouscarbon]

 

[SparkyJJO]

WE OWN THE SUN!!!!!1!!one!

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Hi GoBoating,

At least for me, I'm not suggesting that we need to earn money on the electricity we generate - what I am suggesting is that you can invest all this money in the process of generating your own electricity, but the Government/utilities simply will not allow you to have that for free - they will get their cut - that is the question you need to ask - How did we arrive at a place where we work to get our own electricity using modern-day innovations, big investments and our own hard work and then, the Government and the Big Utilities (working in concert to trample our freedom) take a big cut of what we generate by imposing Kafkaesque rules/regulations/and fees.

Like I posted earlier - it's fine for now - you get a payback on your solar systems - but the future, as best as a reasonable person can see it - says differently. The Big Utilities are already planning on how they can capitalize on your Solar system, and the poor resident will likely pay dearly for those plans. Ultimately, their solar systems may be no better financially then continuing to use the grid - at least in the future when this all plays out.

The first really big flag will be when they are mandated to place meters on all home Solar systems which transmit your solar system generation stats to the utilities "just for record-keeping purposes" and to "ensure safety".

TMN

As the Nazis used to say “Für euer sischerheit.”

 

[curiouscarbon]

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Be advised, in NY, there already is a mandatory "meter charge" whether you use any electricity at all, your electric usage just gets tacked onto that "basic service charge", along with numerous other miscellaneous fees. Here its just shy of $70 / month per meter, plus usage and fees. No net metering anymore, and smart meters on the way this spring, you can "opt out", but thats an extra $14 per meter per month for that privilege. I have two meters, so 140 bucks before any use at all. I plan on building up my "off grid permitless" system as quickly as I can, then doing the next best thing, moving, and taking all the equipment with me.

 

[TheMadNucleus]

HogHeavenFarm - Word!

 

[SolarRich]

I suggest those that live in NY to go to public meetings by whatever board regulates the utilities. Is that NYSERDA?

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

NYSERDA run most of the grants and energy programs, not sure they have regulatory oversight for all the individual power companies. Probably the Public Service Commission I would think.

 

[AndyRonLI]

And this is how nanny state government becomes overt tyranny.

So no on likes a regulation when it interferes with what they want to do.

Be advised, in NY, there already is a mandatory "meter charge" whether you use any electricity at all, your electric usage just gets tacked onto that "basic service charge", along with numerous other miscellaneous fees. Here its just shy of $70 / month per meter, plus usage and fees. No net metering anymore, and smart meters on the way this spring, you can "opt out", but thats an extra $14 per meter per month for that privilege. I have two meters, so 140 bucks before any use at all. I plan on building up my "off grid permitless" system as quickly as I can, then doing the next best thing, moving, and taking all the equipment with me.

Be advised, in NY, there already is a mandatory "meter charge" whether you use any electricity at all, your electric usage just gets tacked onto that "basic service charge", along with numerous other miscellaneous fees. Here its just shy of $70 / month per meter, plus usage and fees. No net metering anymore, and smart meters on the way this spring, you can "opt out", but thats an extra $14 per meter per month for that privilege. I have two meters, so 140 bucks before any use at all. I plan on building up my "off grid permitless" system as quickly as I can, then doing the next best thing, moving, and taking all the equipment with me.

So I still have net metering. Suffolk County, NY As to smart meters, what do you expect if you want to run it backward. Remember we are only feeding back into the last bit of grid. So keeping track of whats going on with backfeed levels is likely a good idea.

 

[curiouscarbon]

no one likes a regulation when it interferes with what they want to do.

amen.

at the intersection of things considered to be harmless to others, and interference with what one is doing, extra frustration emerges.

self sufficiency being punished by some organizations seems to be a topic in the discussion.

my act of self sufficient solar photovoltaic electricity power generation is an act that shall not be punished so long as it does not pose a danger to living beings.

demanding payment commensurate with the perceived value of an off grid independent solar installation is tantamount to highway robbery.

net metering should be commensurate with the proportional value.

the deal is between me and the sun.

sun god truly fuels all life.

 

[TheMadNucleus]

The name of the controlling authority in NY for these matters is NYPSC (New York Public Service Commission).

New York’s new net metering policy to cut solar savings

In response to COVID, New York extended their net metering program. But by 2022, an additional charge will cut down on homeowners’ solar savings.

www.solarreviews.com

I think "Public Service" is a bit ironic - I think a better name is NYPDC (New York Public Dis-service Commission)

TMN