I doubt any of the popular server rack packs can be run 10x in series
Anyone have the scoop on the upcoming Sol-Ark limitless system?
- Thread starter blizzow
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Right. They need to be built that way. You need a high voltage battery. Made mostly for UPS backup systems. Not really DIY stuff. SMA has a list of batteries you get get - all rather pricy. BYD, LG, etc. A BYD B-BOX PREMIUM HVS 10.2 (10.24 kWh) - High Voltage Lithium-ion Battery Storage costs €6.899,00 for example. At lot more than the normal 51.2v EGL or SOK batteries. More than double the cost. One of the advantages is the high voltage means super small wiring. You do't need 2/0 wire like you do for 48v systems. 14 ga wire is fine for the 10 amps it uses. Just like SMA did for the PV wiring (high voltaage dc), this does the same thing to the battery end. Remember way back 30 years ago when inverters were 12v, and 24v max? Then SMA came along with 300V+ series wiring? Maybe others also, but thery were there at the beginning.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
The EV conversion guys build high voltage DIY batteries.
I prefer working on HVDC rather than a grounded high voltage AC. If you follow proper safety procedures it's pretty difficult to get shocked with DC, you have to bridge positive to negative, which is tough to do with your body if you have gloves and pay attention.
With AC, all you need to do is accidentally touch a wire and also happen to be standing on the ground. I've never been shocked with DC, but I've been zapped at work from 120v AC pretty regularly (pools are SHOCKINGLY dangerous ?).
Hello @Kimco ,
Which state are in , any problem with ur utility company approving permits.
I’m in Houston Texas here & seems the utility company wants it on the California list(CEC) .
Do also mind sharing the contact info for Gen pro
Which state are in , any problem with ur utility company approving permits.
I’m in Houston Texas here & seems the utility company wants it on the California list(CEC) .
Do also mind sharing the contact info for Gen pro
Egl_81
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My utility (PP&L in northeast PA) pulled all the Sol-arks off their approved list until they fix a communication issue with the inverter. Not sure if it has anything to do with the California list, but they want to have some control remotely over the inverter settings. I have the 15K on the wall wiring it up, but won’t be able to interconnect to grid until the issue is resolved. I called Sol-ark and they said they are aware of the issue and are actively working on it, and it should just be a software update. Shouldn’t be a huge deal since I can run it in limit to home mode until its approved to interconnect.
How would PPL know you added the inverter if you installed it yourself?
It is UL approved, and disconnects the solar from the grid whenever grid power goes down to protect the lineman working, what other risk is there I am missing?
My local inspector told me as long as device is UL listed, I can connect it in south eastern PA.
Just curious
Would it be possible to shut down the inverter and use a switch to move the AC coupled solar to main panel when grid is up? Then if/when grid goes down, throw switch on the incoming AC coupled solar back to the Solark and turn it on to have backup batteries and solar available?
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Why would you want to do that? The AC coupled solar will pass through the SolArk to the grid and function normally when grid is up. If you want a way to do maintenance on SolArk and have sub panel with GT inverter powered while you do that then use an interlock kit.
Ok I can install an interlock kit, no issue, I am just looking at the 90W standby power consumption on 24/7x365. My Solar is 10-11K and solar hours in winter are 3-4 hours, so that 90W x24 hours in winter is 4-8% of my solar generation. If Grid is up, and I am home and attached batteries are full... I can walk into basement and turn on the inverter as back up power when needed, and this install means I can AC couple my entire array on one box. Hope this makes some sense . Am I doing the math on solar generation, and consumption incorrectly? I'm still a rookie on this stuff.
Follow up question, is there anyway to force the Solark to use attached battery power at night for the standby power? Then each morning that power would be refilled by attached AC coupled solar, and issue would be moot. 100% of the standby power consumption would be from solar, or battery backup.
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Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I depends on your electrical rates and why you want to buy a SolArk..For the kind of money that you would spend on a SolArk, to just use it for backup is more wasteful than the 2 kWh per day it consumes. You can spend a lot less on a backup inverter.
The SolArk is a grid interactive inverter that can cave you many more kWhs per day. Worrying about 2,4 kWh per day is looking at the wrong issue. Perfect should not be the enemy of good.
The main reason I am looking hard at the 15Kw Solark is as follows:
1.0 Only hybrid inverter I found that will allow me to AC couple 100% of my enphase inverter array
1.1 Install of this kind of hybrid inverter with AC couple feature allows me to make good use of the Enphase AC solar in back yard when grid is down. Without this hybrid inverter that investment is useless in a grid down situation.
2.0 Has slots so I can add additional solar as DC solar input if desired in future. (Future proofing)
3.0 Is pretty highly rated, and doesn't require special software to control
4.0 Is large enough so no "stacking" is needed (added complexity and cost)
5.0 May allow me to avoid any need for a second "critical needs panel"... current plan is to hook up this unit directly to my main power feed input. (less complexity and less cost)
If you know of a backup inverter that will charge batteries and accept 100% of my installed solar 10-11Kw of AC coupled solar input I would be very glad to hear the options.
I don't fully understand how the "grid interactive" features will help me save money. As of now I don't have any time of day electric rates, but If that changes that feature would be nice.
Can you please explain how the Solark will save me money during normal operation with solar up, batteries charging/fully charged, grid up? I am looking at it primarily as an insurance policy for an extended grid down period.
Am I missing the boat here? Again I am a rookie.
I agree with your general comment that worrying about the standby power usage is a little "anal" but...if I can overcome that issue with a simple switch moving the AC coupled solar, why not.
I have a 2Kw inverter in my RV, and the manufacturer says they recommend turning it off when not needed, or on shore power. Not sure why I couldn't use the same approach with this larger more complex box.
I also still wonder why Solark couldn't use firmware to direct the standby power needs to batteries or solar as available. That seems like a good simple solution... and then every morning the battery usage is refilled by the solar.
EDIT/UPDATE FROM July 8th below
=================================================
I contacted Sol-ark about the 2kw daily power usage in standby, and they confirmed that you can modify the settings so that at night time you select how much power to draw from the battery. You can also set a battery depletion amount to protect your batteries from fully discharging overnight. So if you have excess solar during the day, and are using net metering, you would assume that 100% of the standby power is either solar, or battery non from grid.
I sent a follow up question to confirm that assumption, and they admitted that is the "intent" of the design of the device, but currently there is a "bug" that means that most of the standby power used during the day actually comes form the grid. And they are working to address that issue.
I was happy that they reported a "bug" openly and didn't just claim that by correct use of the inverter you can eliminate any standby power from grid (that you pay for).
I did not send a third follow up email asking for any further details, I just was happy that they replied in a timely manner and indicated they are aware of an issue with the source of the standby power.
So.. I guess we can wait and see what happens and when. I guess my current view is that if I can setup the inverter to only use 1kw from my battery overnight, and my batteries are fully recharged each morning, the concern about standby power I had goes away.
Thanks to all who replied, as I said I am still a rookie and learning this stuff.
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Egl_81
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They wouldn't, other than seeing my power usage drop almost to nothing. Until PPL approves it to interconnect, I plan to hook it all up and run it in Limit to Home mode, so it will power all my loads and charge batteries but won't export anything to grid. It'll still be hooked up to grid so I can pull power from the utility, it just wont sell any back. I'm hoping to have all my 12.5kW of panels installed on the roof and everything up and running by end of July. It will probably take a while longer for Sol-ark to fix the issue so I can sell back excess power.
RayofSunshine
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You might want to check out this thread, and in particular (my) post #408. It has an attachment that documents a number of answers and clarifications from questions asked in that thread (and elsewhere) regarding the 15K. I think some of the answers will help you out. Regarding questions not answered by that attachment, or that thread in general, you can always send email to support@sol-ark.com and/or info@sol-ark.com, tell them you are thinking of buying a 15K, but have a few questions. Cut & paste unanswered questions from this thread, and see what you get. If they don't answer the email within the timeframe you think is reasonable, call them and tell them no one answered your email. They pride themselves on their support, so hopefully this will get you some answers. Then post back here so we can have the answers as well.
Sorry for the delay.
I am in South Dakota, my utility company referred me to GenPro because they are local and that is who they have worked with the most.
I had zero permitting issues, but I am very rural.
GenPro took care of everything, a few weeks out the utility company e-mailed me some stuff to sign, that was the limit of my interaction with them.
Hedges
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Better check further into the topic of AC couple to SolArk.
At first we understood it supports that, with frequency-shift.
Then we understood it was recommended to put AC coupled GT PV inverters on the "generator" input, allowing SolArk to disconnect them if it couldn't deal with their output quickly enough when loads disconnected.
And it was recommended to have more DC coupled PV than AC coupled.
Then we heard it doesn't actually cause GT PV power production to smoothly ramp up/down, just knocks them offline with frequency shift out of range? And/or disconnects by relay? So ramping DC coupled PV up/down and switching AC coupled is all it does?
Would hope it does better than that, within its ability to suck down excess power from AC coupled PV to batteries. If it does disconnect AC coupled GT PV by either method, this may result in cycling every 5 minutes (perhaps UL-1741-SA WITHOUT frequency-watts will simply wait in the wings for up to 299 seconds and come back on line immediately.)
Caveat Emptor.
Other issues people have reported AC coupling Enphase have been apparently due to loads with diode/capacitor front end, poor PF which trash the waveform enough to cause disconnect.
There are other battery inverters which support AC coupling. Some people here have said low-frequency inverters are inherently better than high frequency at seamlessly reversing direction of power flow, accommodating AC coupled power as loads switch on/off.
Local electrical contractor stopped by today, and looked at the main grid feed that runs 20 feet in cement under my garage and the 4/0 Al cables are then connected to the top of my main 200A panel, to a 200A circuit breaker
He said it was "not allowed" to install 3 Polaris lugs inside the main panel to attach extension wires 4/0 from within that panel exiting same to the new required fused cut off switch.
He said the entire main 200A panel would need to be moved L or R to expose the hole with the main feed from the grid wires , then we can do what we want , which is attach the required fused cut off switch.
That looks like a lot of extra work, that I would like to avoid if possible.
He also said that he did not think that a cut off switch should be required.. but it seems pretty clear from Solark that they believe that it is code and required.
When I pressed a little on using the polaris lugs to extend the now too short main grid feed OUT of the main panel to the fused switch input.. he said , he didn't think there was enough room to do so... first it was code, then not enough room.
He seemed interested in the job, and said he would just bill by the hour for work completed, and I can do as much or as little as I desire with respect to installing the Solark, the fused cut off switch, and the transfer switch to allow switch back to the now fused grid input from the solark load input, back to grid "just in case" I need to remove the solark at some point in the future.
Can anyone comment on his claim that it was against code to install Polaris connectors inside the main home panel.
.....
I don't want to start a relationship with a local guy who can help me out with an argument.... but worst case I could take pictures and send same to the local inspector and ask for his feedback on using polaris lugs inside the main panel to extend 4/0 main feed that is too short to exit the main panel box and go anywhere.
He also said that because I need to add a second ground rod outside the home, the ground cable cannot be spliced at the current ground rod, then extended, it needs to be removed and a continuous ground cable connected.
I was under the impression I could just splice the copper together and extend a second piece of wire to the next ground rod > 6 feet away that is required.
Thanks in advance for feedback
He said it was "not allowed" to install 3 Polaris lugs inside the main panel to attach extension wires 4/0 from within that panel exiting same to the new required fused cut off switch.
He said the entire main 200A panel would need to be moved L or R to expose the hole with the main feed from the grid wires , then we can do what we want , which is attach the required fused cut off switch.
That looks like a lot of extra work, that I would like to avoid if possible.
He also said that he did not think that a cut off switch should be required.. but it seems pretty clear from Solark that they believe that it is code and required.
When I pressed a little on using the polaris lugs to extend the now too short main grid feed OUT of the main panel to the fused switch input.. he said , he didn't think there was enough room to do so... first it was code, then not enough room.
He seemed interested in the job, and said he would just bill by the hour for work completed, and I can do as much or as little as I desire with respect to installing the Solark, the fused cut off switch, and the transfer switch to allow switch back to the now fused grid input from the solark load input, back to grid "just in case" I need to remove the solark at some point in the future.
Can anyone comment on his claim that it was against code to install Polaris connectors inside the main home panel.
.....
I don't want to start a relationship with a local guy who can help me out with an argument.... but worst case I could take pictures and send same to the local inspector and ask for his feedback on using polaris lugs inside the main panel to extend 4/0 main feed that is too short to exit the main panel box and go anywhere.
He also said that because I need to add a second ground rod outside the home, the ground cable cannot be spliced at the current ground rod, then extended, it needs to be removed and a continuous ground cable connected.
I was under the impression I could just splice the copper together and extend a second piece of wire to the next ground rod > 6 feet away that is required.
Thanks in advance for feedback
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