Anyone used LiRongPing Lifepo4 3.2V 300Ah 16pcs Cell?

[jdege]

Had anyone used these, or reviewed these:

LiRongPing Lifepo4 Battery 16pcs 3.2V 300Ah 16pcs Cell

 

[Bob B]

I haven't seen any reviews for these ... kinda interesting that they are rated 300AH .... and looks like it is US stock which should make it easier if they don't stack up like they should.

They seem to be claiming that they are the Mfg .... which doesn't seem at all likely.

 

[Dzl]

I would not consider those.

1. The price is not competitive for no-name cells from an unknown reseller. If the capacity in the title is correct, you could get 3 x Battleborn or 3 x Victron LFP batteries for less money and the same capacity. Or you could spend considerably less on grade A raw cells from a reputable US based seller. Or exponentially less for similar grey market cells
2. The specs are nonsensical
   1. "16pcs 3.2V 300Ah 16pcs Cell 4pcs"
   2. Title states 300Ah, body states 200Ah (and also 300Ah)
   3. State 2000 cycles, then later state 6000 cycles at 100% dod
   4. Stated weight is 5.3kg, that is too much for the weight of a single ~75ah cell (300/4), and too little for all 16 cells. (edit: but actually pretty close to a 280Ah cell)
   5. Description states 300Ah 3.2v 12v

Contradictory and poorly translated product ads are not unusual with Chinese sellers of discount cells. It is normal to see ads like this on aliexpress or alibaba. The difference is, these cells are not discounted at all. Quite the opposite.

 

[jdege]

So, where would you go, to purchase 16 300ah cells?

 

[Dzl]

So, where would you go, to purchase 16 300ah cells?

Are you specifically looking for 300Ah cells?

My negative reaction above is based on the premise that these are almost certainly not 300Ah cells, and possibly only ~100Ah cells. I am not sure if my assumption is correct. What I can say is the cells in the picture are closer to 100Ah than 300Ah. Whether the picture is accurate or not I can't say. If these cells (1) are actually close to 300Ah (2) actually US stock--I suspect not (3) you are willing to pay more for US stock then they would be a less bad deal than I am making them out to be, and my cost comparisons would be way off. But my approach when dealing with sketchy or contradictory info from sellers is always assume the worse of the two options until they clarify/confirm the details.

I only know of one manufacturer that makes 300Ah cells. ETC. The only place I know of that these can be purchased is here. I cant vouch for the cell or the seller (though I think the seller is the manufacturer, but I have not verified). But it is the only actual 300Ah cell available that I am aware of.

That said, there are a few manufacturers that make cells in the ballpark of 240-280 (EVE, ETC, CATL, Lishen. Currently the most popular cells on this site are the 272Ah Lishen grey market cells. 16 x 272 ah from China will probably be in the ballpark of 1400-1900 shipped.

It is important to note these are raw cells, not built batteries, (same with the ones in the amazon link) there are additional costs associated with building your own batteries, and a learning curve, it is also likely that they are neither matched nor A grade (many people are okay with this for the price, its just something to be aware of).

I don't endorse any specific sellers, but two options that others feel somewhat safe buying grey market cells from (the above cautions still apply) are this group buy, and this seller on Alibaba (there are maybe a half dozen or so Alibaba sellers commonly bought from on this site). There is still risk involved in any of these cases.

If you want tested US stock get in touch with @Craig in the past he tested and sold 280Ah cells, not sure if that is still the case. Or if you would be interested in 180Ah CALB cells I can point you to some US sources for those as well.

 

[Dzl]

I asked the seller you linked to above for clarification on capacity and whether the cells are located in the US or China. I will let you know if I get a response.

Be advised the seller has over 150 pages of listings but the seller has only been reviewed twice (1 x five star, 1 x one star)

 

[jdege]

I'm musing about perhaps putting electric motors on my sailboat, and for that I'd need 48v and a minimum of 200 Ah, preferably 400.

So I'm trying to get a sense for what is available.

I could do eight Battle Borns, but that would be expensive. And sixteen would be worse.

 

[Dzl]

I'm musing about perhaps putting electric motors on my sailboat, and for that I'd need 48v and a minimum of 200 Ah, preferably 400.

So I'm trying to get a sense for what is available.

I could do eight Battle Borns, but that would be expensive. And sixteen would be worse.

Agreed, the 'drop-in' batteries are a very expensive route for large banks.

Among the Marine Crowd, CALB, Winston, and Sinopoly seem to be some of the most popular brands. CALB are easy to source in the US, Winston are easy to source in the EU, Sinopoly I'm not so sure about.

For Marine applications it is reccomended to keep individual cell size below 200Ah. A source in the marine world that I respect (see: Nordkyn Design in my signature) has written that no commercial marine rated batteries use cells above 200Ah, and a sales rep at Sinopoly stated they do not recommend cells above 200Ah for marine applications. This has to do with the physical and internal strength of the cells, internal strength goes down as cell size increases, or that is how I understand it.

CALB-USA maintains a list "trusted vendors" where you can buy their cells (with warranty). For a little cheaper, you could get in touch with @HighTechLab (he has US stock, of I think Chinese domestic market cells). For a little cheaper still you can go to the grey market, there are a mix of possible A and probable B grade CALB cells, as well as some outright frauds. Max cell size for CALB cells is roughly 200Ah.

I'm not sure how powerful your motors will be, but be aware that your applications might be more similar with EV's than Energy storage. Folks here are more well versed in energy storage, which is a more forgiving application where we can get buy with less than grade A cells that are not very well matched. Your application might be different. Matching and cell health/quality is more important for EV applications from what I understand. Cell cooling can also be a factor (that us energy storage folks don't focus on much).

There are two sources in my signature (Nordkyn Design and Marinehowto) both are very reputable when it comes to marine electronics and both have exceptional articles on Lifepo4 in a marine context. I suggest reading one or both if you haven't. Both cover how to select and source quality cells.

 

[jdege]

For Marine applications it is reccomended to keep individual cell size below 200Ah. A source in the marine world that I respect (see: Nordkyn Design in my signature) has written that no commercial marine rated batteries use cells above 200Ah, and a sales rep at Sinopoly stated they do not recommend cells above 200Ah for marine applications. This has to do with the physical and internal strength of the cells, internal strength goes down as cell size increases, or that is how I understand it.

Something else I should keep in mind, that I was not aware of, thanks.

One of the issues in a marine environment is simply the weight of the batteries. They generally need to be turned into inaccessible places, and it's a lot easier moving a bunch of smaller batteries than one of two large ones.

My boat was originally designed to have two 5hp engines. Someone pulled them and put in a single 27hp diesel. It originally had two engines because it's a shallow draft with a long shallow keel, and the prop is alongside the keel, not behind it. With only one prop it steers like a pig at low speeds - it has no prop walk. (OTOH, it only draws 20 inches with the boards up.)

I have been thinking about pulling the diesel and installing a pair of 6hp pod drives. That'd be 4.5kW, each, and a max draw, at 48V, of just under 200A.

I think it's doable, from the motor side. And it seems that it might be, from the battery side. The charging side, though, is another issue.

 

[Dzl]

I have been thinking about pulling the diesel and installing a pair of 6hp pod drives. That'd be 4.5kW, each, and a max draw, at 48V, of just under 200A.

I think it's doable, from the motor side. And it seems that it might be, from the battery side. The charging side, though, is another issue.

I think you are on the right track in terms of capacity, absolute minimum of 200Ah and ideally 400Ah or more. That would be 32 x 200Ah cells if you choose to follow that guidance.

For this application I would think that getting properly matched known good cells would be worthwhile.

 

[pjones]

I haven't seen any reviews for these ... kinda interesting that they are rated 300AH .... and looks like it is US stock which should make it easier if they don't stack up like they should.

They seem to be claiming that they are the Mfg .... which doesn't seem at all likely.

The seller doesn't seem to be in the US, look at the delivery dates. Also, it doesn't look like it's part of Amazon's EZ return, so you might have some trouble getting your money back if these turn out to be junk.

 

[Bob B]

The seller doesn't seem to be in the US, look at the delivery dates. Also, it doesn't look like it's part of Amazon's EZ return, so you might have some trouble getting your money back if these turn out to be junk.

If you look at the name of the seller it has US on the end .... So they are US stock. The delivery shows Jan12-Feb3 ....If these were shipping from China, it would be 1 1/2 to 2 months shipping.

As one of the reviews stated, even though they ship for the US, if you have to return they have to be shipped to China. I verified this by sending a question to the seller.

I asked them if they would sell 1 cell so I could test capacity .... they replied that these are 300 AH with 280 AH nominal .... Which I took to mean that they are 280 AH EVE cells.... but they would no sell me one cell for testing.

So ... with the return to China and no test cells .... It would be a no go for me.

I do wish one of these sellers would be set up to ship AND return to a US address.

 

[Dzl]

If you look at the name of the seller it has US on the end .... So they are US stock. The delivery shows Jan12-Feb3 ....If these were shipping from China, it would be 1 1/2 to 2 months shipping.

Personally, I wouldn't read too much into the name. I think a seller can name themselves whatever they choose.

I wanted to clarify a few of my suspicions so I asked the seller a few questions:

1. Is this US stock or China stock?

Hello, It is China Stock

2. Is this listing for 16 x 280ah eve cells? the picture shows small cells of 100ah or less.

Hello, when you place an order to buy, we will send you a 16*280ah eve battery. The battery shown in the picture is a 105ah battery. We will deliver packages to customers in accordance with the product specifications shown in the title. Package list: 16pcs*300ah eve battery. The quality of the product is very qualified, please rest assured to buy.

Interestingly, it appears the second question was deleted (maybe by amazon? maybe by the seller? not sure how that works). But here is a screenshot from my email showing the question was asked and answered.

 

[Bob B]

Well .... definitely can't trust them.

They told me their US location was not for returns..... that the only thing they could receive at the US location was unused items. I assumed they meant stock from China.

I also asked if they were EVE cells and they avoided answering that question.