Appreciate Comments on a Growatt 3000w Solar System in Australia

[PeterInSa]

My current thinking on my Off Grid Solar Install in Australia. The Growatt 3000TL HVM-48 is a Controller/Charger/Inverter in one box, if the battery get low, its charged off the mains to keep the frig etc going. Weakness I understand, is it can be noisy on full load and it will be adjacent to a spare bedroom.

Appreciate comments either on the Forum or via a PM. Thanks


Equipment Details:

Trina 500w Solar Panels
https://www.solarshoponline.com.au/...t-150-cell-vertex-solar-panel-tsm-500de18mii/

Combiner Box
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004397312516.html


Growatt Hybrid Charger Inverter

Growatt SPF 3000TL HVM-48 Off Grid Inverter 48V MPPT 50A Charger Controller | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Growatt SPF 3000TL HVM-48 Off Grid Inverter 48V MPPT 50A Charger Controller at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

Growatt 48v 4.8Kw Battery

Growatt Hope 48V(51.2V) 106Ah 5.5kwh Lithium Battery & Installation Kit | eBay

We are Growatt Authorized Distributor! Growatt Hope 5.5L-A1 uses Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) chemistry which is recognized as one of the safest Lithium chemistries currently in use. Our Sydney warehouse is located in Unit 9, 457 Victoria St, Wetherill Park, NSW 2164.

www.ebay.com.au

Distribution Box

6 Pole Distribution Box Power Board Switchboard Surface Mount Circuit Breaker | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6 Pole Distribution Box Power Board Switchboard Surface Mount Circuit Breaker at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

RVD ( Residual Voltage Device (for Protection)

RVDSAFE® EI (Isolated Power Only) - Residual Voltage Technology

Residual Voltage Device/RVD®-EI. We protect the use of Generators and Inverters plugged into all vehicles requiring 240V power where RCD protection does not work. We are Australian Owned, Australian Designed, Australian Made and Supported with genuine Australian Warranty.

www.rvdsafe.com.au

 

[wattmatters]

The equipment seems well matched, and the 2S2P panel arrangement is right for that inverter's MPPT input.

Presume you've done an energy audit to determine those PV capacity, storage and inverter output specs are suitable for your needs.

Only comment I have is the battery is a 48 V spec (presumably a 15S LiFePO4 cell arrangement) rather than the more common 51.2 V spec (16S cell arrangement). That's fine, just keep in mind one of the things we all tend to do is expand storage capacity and so you'll need to make sure you choose the same voltage configuration if adding on more later.

As to noise, what sort of loads are you expecting while the spare room is occupied / someone sleeping in there?

Fan noise is an issue with most of these AIO inverters. Generally you deal with that by placing it where the noise doesn't matter, or include some form of noise baffling, but done in a manner which doesn't impact the unit's cooling. Some enclose it inside a box which itself has a (quieter) fan which is operated using the DC relay triggered by the inverter's temperature data.

Good luck with it, always good to see another doing some partial off-grid stuff.

 

[PeterInSa]

Thanks for your reply, re the Growatt 48V Lithium Battery, I originally intended to use a Pylontech 3000 battery which I understand are a lot more commonly used in Australia but was told and have read about comms/warranty problems so went with the little known Growatt 48v battery to match the Growatt Inverter, so in theory no buck passing if any probs.( and both purchased from the same supplier)

Re the Noise and Box, also originally spec'ed out a 1400mmH x 500mmW x 450mmD Aluminum Tool Box ( mounted vertically) onto a Brick wall with filters at the top and filter fan at the bottom. However Growatt Inverter specs require 200mm air gap each side and 500mm air gap above, so now the Inverter will be on one corner of a brick wall in the open and the rest of the equipment ( combiner and Distribution box etc) in a Tin box on the adjacent corner. This equipment will be under the eaves of the house roof and an adjoining veranda roof.

 

[wattmatters]

I originally intended to use a Pylontech 3000 battery

Yeah they use the same nominal voltage.

If the supplier is reliable then yes getting them from the same place is helpful.

I guess with noise it's hard to know if it'll be an issue until it's in situ and in use.

 

[PeterInSa]

Checking the Growatt 3000TL HVM -48v Inverter Specs again, looks like I am overpaneling with the 4 Trina Panels at 500watts each and the Growatt with

a Maximum PV Array Power

1800W

so will look for an alternative.

 

[wattmatters]

Checking the Growatt 3000TL HVM -48v Inverter Specs again, looks like I am overpaneling with the 4 Trina Panels at 500watts each and the Growatt with

Didn't see that. I doubt it would be a big issue but if you don't already have the panels then good to stay within spec.

 

[octal_ip]

Checking the Growatt 3000TL HVM -48v Inverter Specs again, looks like I am overpaneling with the 4 Trina Panels at 500watts each and the Growatt with

a Maximum PV Array Power

1800W

so will look for an alternative.

Have you considered the SPF 3500 ES?

They're a much more capable AIO unit.

SPF 3500-5000 ES - Off-Grid Storage Inverters - Growatt

SPF 3500-5000 ESoffgrid,solar off grid inverters,5000 watt inverter

www.ginverter.com

 

[PeterInSa]

wm. Re (Didn't see that. I doubt it would be a big issue but if you don't already have the panels then good to stay within spec)

I read Koenbreads's write up on overpaneling see below, he, specifically mentioned Growatt SPF3000TL which is the unit I am interested in. After my comment above I chose the Trina 450w panel only to find they can go up to 455wattas so 4 panels would be 20watts over on a fine sunny day and since I am not paying for the system ( maybe with a design problem I will have to cough up) will look at a 415watt Panel.

..., the issue of over paneling has been discussed many, many times, but this often overlooked this paper concerning over paneling coined by Filterguy concerning hard PV limits stipulated by some manufacturers, has me concerned. Statements by the manu like; " ... Sol-Ark 5K No over-paneling supported ... ", " ... Growatt SPF300TL; Growatt tech support says the Max PV Array Power is a hard limit, so these controllers can not be over-paneled. ... ".

 

[PeterInSa]

o-i Re (Have you considered the SPF 3500 ES?)
I did consider this unit, but with a higher standby power usage ( I know its not the correct terminology) than the 3000, and not needing more than 2500watts over night at the most, I did not look into it any further.

If you could let me know the points in its favour over the 3000 I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Peter

 

[octal_ip]

If you could let me know the points in its favour over the 3000 I would appreciate it

- Higher rated output power (consider your needs into the future, not just now. These DIY solar systems tend to grow in uses over time)
- Multiple units can run in parallel (probably not important for you)
- Higher surge power (important for starting big loads like power tools, compressors, etc.)
- Much higher maximum solar voltage and power.
- Much higher solar and AC charge current.

The SPF 3500 ES is far more powerful in every way, and at a glance seems to be about the same price.

I'd be surprised if there was any difference between the two in terms of idle power, they both have HF inverters, so would use about 60w even when there's no load.
The lower idle power numbers you see for the SPF 3000TL HVM-48 is when the unit is completely off, with no input or output whatsoever. The same can be done with the 3500 with the switch under the front panel.

To be honest I don't even know why the SPF 3000TL HVM-48 exists. Maybe for niche cases where the solar array can't make the minimum MPPT voltage of the 3500?

 

[octal_ip]

My other advice is that customer support from Growatt is just about non-existent, which is typical for cheap devices in this category. Once you understand and work out the quirks they're a pretty good unit, but you'll be relying on the community here for help if/when you need it.

 

[octal_ip]

I should add, I do have the SPF 3500 ES myself. It took a few months of casual tweaking to get working right, during which I wished I'd just bought a separate MPPT charge controller and inverter. Now that it's finally set up properly I quite like it.
The AC output is very good, I've not been able to fault it. Even with some very heavy loads like an air compressor, wood chipper and various other power tools it's not missed a beat. And it'll charge the batteries just as fast as the panels will let it.
I have 4.7kW of panels attached in a 9S2P configuration, so it's slightly over-panelled, but it's an east-west facing array so it'll never be able to put out that maximum.

 

[PeterInSa]

o_i, 2 things I am wary about with the Growatt Hybrids:

Noise: listening to the nose of a Gw in the vid below especially at the 10 mins 15 sec mark when the panels are pushing 2600 watts, I am wary of placing the SPF 3500ES anywhere near a bedroom during the day and at night under load as well it could be noisy. (and the far wall in the carport it could keep the neighbours awake) I understand there are 2 fans a small 50cm fan that runs all the time and a bigger turbo fan that is load/charge sensitive ( Turns on when Load/charge greater than 10%). Appreciate your comments on noise and location.

Earthing: The Gw SPF 3500ES is connected to the grid for Battery Top up etc. This is cable connected via Active, Neutral and Earth. Is the 240vac AC output of the 3500ES Active, Neutral and Earth is this the Grid earth?

I understand that the Panel earths are wired into an earth Junction Box along with the battery earth and to a solar panel earth and to the Controller earth?? If So, are the grid earth and the Solar earths connected??

Thanks

 

[octal_ip]

o_i, 2 things I am wary about with the Growatt Hybrids:

Noise: listening to the nose of a Gw in the vid below especially at the 10 mins 15 sec mark when the panels are pushing 2600 watts, I am wary of placing the SPF 3500ES anywhere near a bedroom during the day and at night under load as well it could be noisy. (and the far wall in the carport it could keep the neighbours awake) I understand there are 2 fans a small 50cm fan that runs all the time and a bigger turbo fan that is load/charge sensitive ( Turns on when Load/charge greater than 10%). Appreciate your comments on noise and location.

Earthing: The Gw SPF 3500ES is connected to the grid for Battery Top up etc. This is cable connected via Active, Neutral and Earth. Is the 240vac AC output of the 3500ES Active, Neutral and Earth is this the Grid earth?

I understand that the Panel earths are wired into an earth Junction Box along with the battery earth and to a solar panel earth and to the Controller earth?? If So, are the grid earth and the Solar earths connected??

Thanks

You're right to be concerned about the noise, the 3500 is about the same as an average computer when idling, but very noticeable when under load. I have mine inside my workshop where noise is somewhat acceptable, but I wouldn't be putting it adjacent to living spaces.
When running hard it would be similar to the noise level of a microwave oven.

Yes, the earth of the inverter AC output is physically connected to the earth of the AC input.
Earthing is always a tricky topic, I'll leave it to one of the experts here to comment on how to best set it up. What I'm not clear on is whether the battery needs an earth connection, as both the solar equipment (panel frames and rails), the the inverter do.

 

[wattmatters]

Inverters with fans are often noisy. And fans on these inverters are pretty ubiquitous. There are some grid tied PV inverters which are passively cooled, don't know about off-grid options.

I already have a Fronius Symo which makes a fair bit of fan noise, but we never hear it inside the house, and being a grid tied inverter and no battery it's only ever making noise in the daytime. That end of the house will eventually become a master bedroom but because it's only a daytime noise maker I am not that concerned. It sits above the pool pump which is inside a timber housing and that doesn't bother us either (those efficient multi-speed pumps are pretty darn quiet and it operates during daytime only as well).

I am mounting an off-grid PIP inverter on the same wall and expect it to make fan noise as well, quite possibly louder than the Fronius, so it's a bit of an experiment in that sense as it will be powering the house at night. The unit it is replacing is in the same location but inside the timber housing so that baffles the sound somewhat. That part of the wall is outside our home office, which will become a walk in robe. Wife uses the office and has never mentioned anything about noise.

I know some have changed out their PIP inverter fans for quieter ones but that's not something I'm ever likely to do.

 

[LydMekk]

The Growatt is IP20 and has nothing to do being mounted outside in a carport.
A closed garage with a door, yes, but not an open carport. Then it needs IP65 weather protection.
Look inside your house. There should be a better place than beside your bedroom...

 

[PeterInSa]

My understanding that in Oz, a Ground Earth Alarm is required if the Battery voltage is 48V or over and the Solar Panel Voltage to the Controller exceeds 60v or greater.

‘Found this out looking at the Electrician Visit vid below.

Appreciate comments in the Earthguard Write up in relation to a Growatt 3500ES re solar panel voltage above 60v and 48V Gw Battery

From the Earthguard description

Detection Requirements

If the PV Array is not Galvanically Isolated from the battery bank (AERL and Victron regulators are not isolated as they are Common Positive and Common Negative designs respectively), the battery bank’s potential Earth Fault Voltage is considered to be that of the connected PV Array and thus requires earth fault/leakage detection on both the Battery and PV Array

if the array exceeds 60Vdc. That said, because the AERL and Victron regulators are not galvanically isolated, only a single EarthGuard is required to cover both the array and battery bank due to the common (positive & negative) electrical connections and the sensitivity of the EarthGuard device.

If the PCE is Galvanically Isolated, and the battery bank is below DVC-C, earth fault/leakage detection is only required on the PV Array (provided it is above 60Vdc)



Re (not galvanically isolated, only a single EarthGuard is required to cover both the array and battery bank) To me The Gw 3500ES is not galvanically isolated so only one Earthguard is required.

Your Thoughts…………..

https://aerl.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/EarthGuard-300-User-Manual-REV-1.2.pdf

https://www.gses.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/GSES_PCE.pdf

Thanks

Peter

 

[octal_ip]

Yep, that's all correct. I did a bit of reading since your last post because I realised my lack of knowledge in the area and came to the same conclusion. It's strange that the AERL Earthguard seems to be the only device on the market for this purpose, or at least the only one I could find - does anyone know of alternatives?

The VOC of my 9S2P setup is too high for the Earthguard, so I'm a bit stuck trying to find one that'll work. I might have to design one for myself.