diy solar

diy solar

As requested by Will Prowse

Tuckles

New Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2021
Messages
56
Hey Will,
In watching your last two live casts you requested we submit suggestions for new videos so here I am. Though you started out trying to assist mostly lower income people living off grid in their van, trailer etc. and that's great, but in case you haven't noticed you have now gained a new and very different audience, older more financially able folks living in homes. I, for example, am a 67 year old engineer (not electrical unfortunately) living on the east coast of Florida where we took direct hits by two hurricanes within about 5 weeks. The power was out for over three weeks, came back on for about a week and a half and then was back off again for another 3 weeks. We made it through of course but that was 17 years ago and what I learned from that is that gas generators are only good for days, not weeks. My 91 year old mother lives here with my wife and I and the loss of power for and extended period of time would be a death knell I'm afraid due to the need to refrigerate medications, run C-PAP machines etc. It would be great if you could do a video for those like me who are not looking for the cheapest and/or easiest but the best and most reliable. Being in the beginning innings of hurricane season, and looking at the madness of the world we live in these days coupled with the very real possibility of another EMP like the Carrington Event of 1859, for many of us developing quality battery backed solar systems will be a matter of life and death. I really hope you can find time to make a video geared toward this, It would be greatly appreciated by many of us, your loyal fans.
Thanks!
Tuckles

P.S.
Please look into food freeze drying (Harvest Right)and Berkey Water Filters with the porcelain filter candles
 
Hi @Tuckles ,

Yeah, Will is mostly about smaller systems.

The complexity increase enormous when doing parallel, or larger AH setups.

I have 80 cells, 32x 280, 48x 152Ah and it's been a long journey with many parts failing.

You might have noticed that Will is shifting a bit, telling more about the difference with high capacity setups.

Yes, he is still enthusiastic about 400A Daly BMS, but does get into the "dangers" of higher capacity.

Rule of thumb, Mosfet based BMS are usable to 100-150A.
This due the Voltage drop and the heat that comes from it (and efficiently reduction)
Most cheaper China Mosfets can't handle heat well, and after "short" time (a year or so) they will fail.

Only good way are Contactors.
Solar isn't the only high current environment, why try to re-invent the wheel??

I also would like to see long term installations, with feedback every 3 or 6 months, if all keeps working stable.

As you might see in the forum, many users have troubles with (Chinese) BMS failing after a few months. Also users who have it stable for years..

Sadly, that's outside the scope of @Will Prowse .
Understandable, he doesn't have time to play with charge cycles, set them to 85-95% and see what's the real life efficient on balancing.

He doesn't need the 1000 extra cycles (even if that is realistic or not, time will tell in 8-10 years)

It's not his "job" to do quality testing for longer periods of time.

Also not his "job" to advise in installations that are potentially deadly, due high capacity and voltage.

I have +1000ah @S16, 51.2v nominal voltage, 58v fully charged.
(+50 kWh)
3 X 3.2kw inverter, +14kwh solar@350v, 6500w generator, 4x 800w wind turbines....

That's an amount of potential energy that needs to be treated with most respect and knowledge.

In this forum you will find many other people who have a larger installation, and who come across "special" problems that won't occur in a smaller (camper?) installation.

We help eachother as good as we can, and most installations are a success.

Some have occasional ?or other small accidents.

Most important, you need to be willing and able to study.
Knowledge is key.

You will make mistakes, destroy a few cells and other components, and have a joyful journey with a high success rate, and it's YOURS!

I don't think you will ever receive information about +50kwh setups via Will's YouTube video's.
Beyond his scope.

Good there is this forum :)

If you need help, just ask!
 
Last edited:
If that were my primary objective I'm not sure DIY would be the way to go. Unless I was an electrical engineer/electrician skilled in the area.
I totally understand you.

You are playing with great forces, that might backfire and destroy your $ 5000,- purchase.
And count yourself lucky that was the only damage...

You don't have to be skilled yet.
Studying and playing can give great skills in a short time, if you have the "feeling" for it

I started with 32x 152Ah..
Still expensive purchase, I did not buy everything at once, as I needed to educate myself.

Looking back, I would not have done it a different way.
Back then less knowledge and equipment available.

Now?
I would buy BYD battery packs, 260Ah
S8 or S16.
Already compressed, bus-bar laser welded, and easy connect for BMS.

Price is slightly higher (here In Thailand) but so little, DIY building isn't worth the effort and risks.

S16, 260Ah, with ANT BMS and 5A active balancer, $ 1185, delivery included...

Not bad :)

23a7eb6b01c5fdea325556a100254db5.jpg
 
if you REALLY want stable/reliable long term power...well...
get a permanent installed propane generator and for soemthing in the $6k-$8k range you have a very reliable system and could handle your AC as well as fridge/freeze/cpap machines. A 500gal propane tank will get you days to weeksof power dep[ending on how you watch it (and you do not really need to run 24/7).
You could still use a battery bank/solar panels/inverter but if you want to "know" you have backup power, get a generator (rain/clouds/wind... generators and tanks are tough and do not care).
fyi, depending on where you live, plan on maybe double that cost due to "regulations"...

DIY solar is when you really want bottom price and/or you want the "fun" of doing it yourself!

fyi, you can easily spend several $k playing around with battery packs and solar panels...ask me how I know hehe
 
if you REALLY want stable/reliable long term power...well...
get a permanent installed propane generator and for soemthing in the $6k-$8k range you have a very reliable system and could handle your AC as well as fridge/freeze/cpap machines. A 500gal propane tank will get you days to weeksof power dep[ending on how you watch it (and you do not really need to run 24/7).
You could still use a battery bank/solar panels/inverter but if you want to "know" you have backup power, get a generator (rain/clouds/wind... generators and tanks are tough and do not care).
fyi, depending on where you live, plan on maybe double that cost due to "regulations"...

DIY solar is when you really want bottom price and/or you want the "fun" of doing it yourself!

fyi, you can easily spend several $k playing around with battery packs and solar panels...ask me how I know hehe
Why not a micro nuclear plant?
One splice will last year....

Just kidding.

Generators are the "old way" burning fuel.

They won't last +25 years with minimal maintenance...
(I talk about solar panels)

Yeah, you're right if you say that's it's "unreliable" as it doesn't work at night, or during heavy rain and clouds.
Solar eclipse also sucks

That's why they invented batteries :)
And LiFePO4, +10 years lifecycle, again with minimal maintenance.

So actually, the system once set up properly, needs twice maintenance in 25 years.

Where LPG generators need continuous supply of fuel, and is noisy as hell.
Besides that, it's an engine.
That's 3-4 times per year oil change, every 3-4 years engine revision (what takes easy a week or longer) and...
Fossil fuels....

Lol.

That's an absolute NO!
For continuous reliable energy production.

For emergency backup power, yes.
LPG, unlike gasoline or modern bio diesel can stay good for ages in a tank.
Even if you don't really need the generator (do start it twice a year, to keep it lubricated) the fuel stays good.
Modern gasoline and diesel needs to be replaced every 6 months :-(

If you ever wondered why the lawn mower doesn't start in the spring?
And does work again with fresh gasoline...
Here is your answer :)

Of you don't like solar and LiFePO4...

Water turbine usually gives stable continuous power without much maintenance.

Wind turbines (+25m high) usually are reliable but do need backup.

Propane....
Lol...
That's back to the 80's...
It does work..
Just not close as reliable and low maintenance as solar, wind, water and LiFePO4.
 
Propane....
Lol...
That's back to the 80's...
It does work..
Just not close as reliable and low maintenance as solar, wind, water and LiFePO4.
I’m not sure that’s true. IN Maine my father has a natural gas generator, and the\at has worked flawlessly and auto starts for each of the blackouts they have several times a year for up to three days at a time. The gas is from a town line from the gas company.

An oil change is not that hard, and I’m not sure about what you mean by an engine revision every three or four years, especially for something that is only occasionally used.

Before going with a 500 gallon propane tank, I’d ask the OP if during the hurricane of many years ago, if natural gas was available from the town.
 
I’m not sure that’s true. IN Maine my father has a natural gas generator, and the\at has worked flawlessly and auto starts for each of the blackouts they have several times a year for up to three days at a time. The gas is from a town line from the gas company.

An oil change is not that hard, and I’m not sure about what you mean by an engine revision every three or four years, especially for something that is only occasionally used.

Before going with a 500 gallon propane tank, I’d ask the OP if during the hurricane of many years ago, if natural gas was available from the town.
Yes, you just confirmed my point.

Backup generator, for occasional use.

We aren't talking about that.
We are talking about prodiction and use of energy for 24/7.

Production during daytime, wind or water flow, storage in battery when one of that isn't available.
Not a backup solution for brownout / black outs but sustainable production for long periods of time.
Months, years, not days or weeks.

Like @Tuckles wrote:
"what I learned from that is that gas generators are only good for days, not weeks."
For them, their medicine needs to stay cool, and without those medications, people will die.

Others will have several reasons, independence, finance, or no grid available.
(like in my situation, closest energy pole, +8km)

Many people have their own reasons for solar and LiFePO4 energy storage, not just backup power during outage.

If it's just that, sure, 7500 watt gasoline generator of $700, propane conversion kit of $50 and 3 35L tanks for $150, all set :cool:

Start it twice a year to keep it lubricated, and that's all.

When there is a power outage, you'll be happy you have one.
Cheap and easy.
Spend an other 100 bucks on a baffle box, and you even sleep like a baby :)

Like @Tuckles wrote, generators are for days, not weeks or months.

He already has that backup but needs power for longer time.
Weeks, during the bad hurricane 17 years ago, 3 weeks no power, 1.5 week with, and 3 weeks without power again.

During/ after hurricane, propane delivery is last in the list of important things to take care...
While in theory you can get 500- 5.000 gallon tank, I'm not sure if local regulations will agree to have that amount of storage in the town center....

Solar panels on the roof, in the garden..
Wind turbines on the roof,
And if you have the luck to live at a stream.. water turbine.

Then doesn't matter how long it takes before everything is up and running again.

Sure, if the hurricane directly hits your house...
No solar panels or wind turbines will survive.
Most likely your house won't survive.
In that situation, no power is not so important due lack of roof :)

If your home isn't directly hit, solar, wind and water will generate continuous energy, with some "hickups" during night, rain, eclipse and hurricane.

50 kwh sounds a lot, but if you want to compensate for those "natural hickups" it even can be to small.
Depending on your energy consumption...

Propane generator, perfect for a few hours, maybe a few days.
Not 6 weeks or longer.
I doubt that between the 2 hurricanes it would be able to get the tank refilled

And if you build for few weeks or longer, you are building for continuous use, independent from the grid.
You "can't" store energy for 2 months. (Not practical)

Generate what you need yourself, and power outages aren't a probem, even if they lasted months.

That you have lower electricity bill is a nice side effect ?
 
Last edited:
We have different point of view.

I'm writing about continuous energy production, that is standard available. It doesn't care about a week, month, months or year(s).
Always energy, as it's a matter of life and death that energy is continuing.

With this in mind, a generator would be running 24/7, to be any realistic comparison between solar/LiFePO4 setup, what does provide 24/7 power.

Running the generator 24/7 will require a lot more maintenance then running solar system 24/7

Price wise...
They don't differ that much.
Good propane generator, with tank and installation +/- $10.000, and you need all the paperwork and approval from local government and electrical company.
Propane isn't really expensive, still, it does cost money.

Natural gass lines aren't an option, during power outages from hurricanes, natural gass delivery is usually stopped to avoid huge explosions.

50 kWh LiFePO4 is about $5000,-
Solar about $3500, inverter $1500,-

Sure you can buy more expensive high quality stuff Victron or Outback...
I'm sure the same goes for generators.

Or both a lot cheaper, low quality :)

When both are about the same cost, and one does reduce the energy bill as well, and doesn't care about fuel....

Unless when you live in an apartment, no solar, no wind, no water....
Generators aren't the best option.
 
Not sure why people are going on about security of power supply being a dichotomy. If you want 24/7/365 power security you will need multiple sources of power supply and the more diverse and complementary those sources the better.

In prolonged inclement weather solar PV is not going to produce enough to keep a home functioning 24/7. It requires an alternative source of energy to power the home / recharge batteries. Many generators can't run 24/7 either, they need refuelling, oil check etc. They may not need much time off between duty cycles, but by then it will have recharged batteries which can keep things going while that's done.

I built my battery back up to provide 6-7 hours of normal household coverage, 10-12 hours with more carefully managed consumption. I can add more storage to double those times but that's still only a day's worth, and if the weather is persistently crummy for solar production well the generator is there to supplement when needed.

Last week we had a couple of ordinary solar days. On one day my 11kW of solar PV only generated 3.5kWh. This in solar brilliant Australia, I can imagine almost zero production in some locations at higher latitudes and smaller arrays.

A high level of power security requires a multi-pronged approach and much of that needs an experienced professional to design and install. It'll also cost a pretty penny. Of course there are some DIYers who can do it but it's quite a jump up in skill/knowledge/experience from a little off grid shed set up.
 
Not sure why people are going on about security of power supply being a dichotomy. If you want 24/7/365 power security you will need multiple sources of power supply and the more diverse and complementary those sources the better.

In prolonged inclement weather solar PV is not going to produce enough to keep a home functioning 24/7. It requires an alternative source of energy to power the home / recharge batteries. Many generators can't run 24/7 either, they need refuelling, oil check etc. They may not need much time off between duty cycles, but by then it will have recharged batteries which can keep things going while that's done.

I built my battery back up to provide 6-7 hours of normal household coverage, 10-12 hours with more carefully managed consumption. I can add more storage to double those times but that's still only a day's worth, and if the weather is persistently crummy for solar production well the generator is there to supplement when needed.

Last week we had a couple of ordinary solar days. On one day my 11kW of solar PV only generated 3.5kWh. This in solar brilliant Australia, I can imagine almost zero production in some locations at higher latitudes and smaller arrays.

A high level of power security requires a multi-pronged approach and much of that needs an experienced professional to design and install. It'll also cost a pretty penny. Of course there are some DIYers who can do it but it's quite a jump up in skill/knowledge/experience from a little off grid shed set up.
We don't.

As you can read we talk about solar, wind, water and fuel generator's.
Last one being the backup when the rest is insufficient.

Living off grid in rural Thailand, we have no alternative then use multiple sources.
Sadly no water.

Our setup is build for the rainy season, not the 9 months Sunny days.
A week getting just 3kw out of our ,+14, KW array isn't a problem.

All depends on what you build for.
If it isn't enough, we have Gasoline generator, converted to propane, automatically starts if thee batteries go too low.

@Tuckles has already a generator.
I can only assume with Automatic Failover Switch.

That's the most complex part concerning the grid..

To make sure you don't have 2 power sources running at the same time in your home...

Small or larger solar setup that works together with the grid, many DIY are doing this.
For me easy, no grid, no regulations.

Combine the 3 isn't hard.
As the generator is the backup of the solar/wind/water/LiFePO4 "backup" of the grid.

General advice here is combined power source, with the knowledge that you don't want to store fuel for a month in suburban areas or town.

Besides that, solar is a lot cheaper backup solution that can provide enough energy when scaled correctly.

If you want to live of solar/,wind. During hurricane season (same as rain season in Thailand, lucky we don't have the strong winds a lot) you need 3 or 4 times the solar array then you need to use.

Even then during that period you need to limit excessive power in usage.
Cooking, heating water or rooms with electricity....
That would cost too much stored energy.

Propane is the best way for this.

Airconditioning is often a must.
Absolutely here.
Not even that much for the heat, the humidity destroy almost everything (books, clothes furniture) Refrigerator is a must, the medicine need cooling.
Efficient models don't use that much energy.
Our Samsung can do with 8 hours with out power, and just rise 4 degrees.
If we transfer the cooling element (standard build-in) (or extra element) from freezer to refrigerator, no problems at all.

Sure, you need to be creative, and adjust your energy consumption to the production.
During rain there is usually more wind then a sunny day.
And it can run also in the dark :)

All little bits help.
If you have massive amounts of rain, water turbine in the gutters can be energy efficient enough to compensate for the lack of sunshine.
Most those DIY setups are just for fun, they deliver just a few watt during rain.
More cost efficient would be a larger battery.

But you can't beat the fun factors:)
 
Hey Will,
In watching your last two live casts you requested we submit suggestions for new videos so here I am. Though you started out trying to assist mostly lower income people living off grid in their van, trailer etc. and that's great, but in case you haven't noticed you have now gained a new and very different audience, older more financially able folks living in homes. I, for example, am a 67 year old engineer (not electrical unfortunately) living on the east coast of Florida where we took direct hits by two hurricanes within about 5 weeks. The power was out for over three weeks, came back on for about a week and a half and then was back off again for another 3 weeks. We made it through of course but that was 17 years ago and what I learned from that is that gas generators are only good for days, not weeks. My 91 year old mother lives here with my wife and I and the loss of power for and extended period of time would be a death knell I'm afraid due to the need to refrigerate medications, run C-PAP machines etc. It would be great if you could do a video for those like me who are not looking for the cheapest and/or easiest but the best and most reliable. Being in the beginning innings of hurricane season, and looking at the madness of the world we live in these days coupled with the very real possibility of another EMP like the Carrington Event of 1859, for many of us developing quality battery backed solar systems will be a matter of life and death. I really hope you can find time to make a video geared toward this, It would be greatly appreciated by many of us, your loyal fans.
Thanks!
Tuckles

P.S.
Please look into food freeze drying (Harvest Right)and Berkey Water Filters with the porcelain filter candles
Hi Tuckles,

Greeting from New Orleans.

Here are some things to consider before you calculate your electric load. Determine if you can limit the number of rooms needed in your house during an outage. Add window units or a mini-split in those rooms. If you have an electric dryer, switch it to gas, same for hot water heater. Add a smaller, backup refrigerator to reduce the load even more.

I have a large enclosed patio with a portable AC that I use as my place of refuge. My refrigerator and freezer have power, but the rest of the house is shutdown. I use my Ryobi 18v batteries to power portable lights and fans when needed.

I started in 2017 with a Renogy 2000 watt, 24 volt kit with a 600 ah battery bank and 2000 watt AIMS inverter. I've added since then, but have kept with the general idea of a much smaller living area in the event of an extended outage.

You may have thought of these things already. When you think about the events to plan for, it can be daunting.

Best regards,
T-486
 
I totally agree.
While it might be difficult for the elderly to retreat to a patio, the other way around is really doable.

Their room(s) as retreat area.
Probably will have toilet close by, suitable for elderly, and shower with seat.

Good idea @T-486 Ashepoo to place smaller refrigerator there, that can by a hybrid, working on DC and Propane.

In case of emergency relocate the medicine, if needed together with some ice cubes or packs to cool the first hour when the refrigerator is starting up.

Even then, like you noticed...
Gasoline or propane generator aren't a perfect solution for longer periods of time.
Adding solar, wind and LiFePO4 can help with that.

I don't know if there are airconditioning units that can run of electricity and propane, I know refrigerator can..
Never quite understood how they did this as it shows a flame....
And cools :)

If refrigerator can do it, airconditioning probably can do also.
Not sure if it's valuable, sometimes those solutions are so expensive, it's cheaper to add a week worth of LiFePO4 and enough solar :)

Hot water, we use propane water heater.
Electric heaters use 3500-6000 watts.
The amount of water flow I'm heating with small unit would take 7.500 watt to get the same Temperature and flow.
Not worth it.
Same goes for cooking, but I can understand why one would choose this over propane.
Safety.
And probably you are heating up canned food, not cooking huge meals that need many hours on the stove...

(Like my Thai wife likes to do...
She also uses often charcoal outside for cooking.. old habits hard to beat)
 
I totally agree.
While it might be difficult for the elderly to retreat to a patio, the other way around is really doable.

Their room(s) as retreat area.
Probably will have toilet close by, suitable for elderly, and shower with seat.

Good idea @T-486 Ashepoo to place smaller refrigerator there, that can by a hybrid, working on DC and Propane.

In case of emergency relocate the medicine, if needed together with some ice cubes or packs to cool the first hour when the refrigerator is starting up.

Even then, like you noticed...
Gasoline or propane generator aren't a perfect solution for longer periods of time.
Adding solar, wind and LiFePO4 can help with that.

I don't know if there are airconditioning units that can run of electricity and propane, I know refrigerator can..
Never quite understood how they did this as it shows a flame....
And cools :)

If refrigerator can do it, airconditioning probably can do also.
Not sure if it's valuable, sometimes those solutions are so expensive, it's cheaper to add a week worth of LiFePO4 and enough solar :)

Hot water, we use propane water heater.
Electric heaters use 3500-6000 watts.
The amount of water flow I'm heating with small unit would take 7.500 watt to get the same Temperature and flow.
Not worth it.
Same goes for cooking, but I can understand why one would choose this over propane.
Safety.
And probably you are heating up canned food, not cooking huge meals that need many hours on the stove...

(Like my Thai wife likes to do...
She also uses often charcoal outside for cooking.. old habits hard to beat)
Hi fhorst, Nice to meet you. I should have said "enclosed patio". Enclosed it after Hurricane Katrina wrecked it. T-486
 
Hi @Tuckles ,

Yeah, Will is mostly about smaller systems.

The complexity increase enormous when doing parallel, or larger AH setups.

I have 80 cells, 32x 280, 48x 152Ah and it's been a long journey with many parts failing.

You might have noticed that Will is shifting a bit, telling more about the difference with high capacity setups.

Yes, he is still enthusiastic about 400A Daly BMS, but does get into the "dangers" of higher capacity.

Rule of thumb, Mosfet based BMS are usable to 100-150A.
This due the Voltage drop and the heat that comes from it (and efficiently reduction)
Most cheaper China Mosfets can't handle heat well, and after "short" time (a year or so) they will fail.

Only good way are Contactors.
Solar isn't the only high current environment, why try to re-invent the wheel??

I also would like to see long term installations, with feedback every 3 or 6 months, if all keeps working stable.

As you might see in the forum, many users have troubles with (Chinese) BMS failing after a few months. Also users who have it stable for years..

Sadly, that's outside the scope of @Will Prowse .
Understandable, he doesn't have time to play with charge cycles, set them to 85-95% and see what's the real life efficient on balancing.

He doesn't need the 1000 extra cycles (even if that is realistic or not, time will tell in 8-10 years)

It's not his "job" to do quality testing for longer periods of time.

Also not his "job" to advise in installations that are potentially deadly, due high capacity and voltage.

I have +1000ah @S16, 51.2v nominal voltage, 58v fully charged.
(+50 kWh)
3 X 3.2kw inverter, +14kwh solar@350v, 6500w generator, 4x 800w wind turbines....

That's an amount of potential energy that needs to be treated with most respect and knowledge.

In this forum you will find many other people who have a larger installation, and who come across "special" problems that won't occur in a smaller (camper?) installation.

We help eachother as good as we can, and most installations are a success.

Some have occasional ?or other small accidents.

Most important, you need to be willing and able to study.
Knowledge is key.

You will make mistakes, destroy a few cells and other components, and have a joyful journey with a high success rate, and it's YOURS!

I don't think you will ever receive information about +50kwh setups via Will's YouTube video's.
Beyond his scope.

Good there is this forum :)

If you need help, just ask!
Thank you so much for your reply and advise. Yes, Will started off focusing on smaller systems but have you watched his latest videos? His system is so large he doesn't know what to do with all the power. Sadly I have not located a local solar contractor that I trust to work with. They all just want to sell and install solar panels and collect the government subsidy money, they don't know much about the other pieces parts required to harness that PV power to maintain a survivable home. I live in a urban/suburban area where people don't go off grid with their solar, just want to lower their power bill. I also don't consider it to be his "job" to do anything other than what he chooses to do, nor have I requested him to "advise" me personally on anything, though I have received a mountain of great advise through his videos and live chats. He requested suggestions for future videos and I offered a suggestion for a video that I think would be very helpful to a large group of people, simple as that. And yes, I agree, knowledge is key, to this and to everything in life. I didn't begin this as a hobbyist or solar enthusiest but as a son, husband and father who looks with trepidation at the world around us and understands that access to electrical power is essential to survival in the world we live in. I also understand better than most, because of my carrier in the communications industry, just how fragile and rickety the power grid is in many parts of the country and though I am certainly no genius, I was able to figure out that solar power is the only real solution to any power outage situation persisting for more than a few days. Though the first iteration of my system is (will be when it arrives) made up of all plug and play components due to time constraints (need to get this put together and operational ASAP) I have been bitten by the solar bug and look forward to building a 16s battery in the very near future.
 
if you REALLY want stable/reliable long term power...well...
get a permanent installed propane generator and for soemthing in the $6k-$8k range you have a very reliable system and could handle your AC as well as fridge/freeze/cpap machines. A 500gal propane tank will get you days to weeksof power dep[ending on how you watch it (and you do not really need to run 24/7).
You could still use a battery bank/solar panels/inverter but if you want to "know" you have backup power, get a generator (rain/clouds/wind... generators and tanks are tough and do not care).
fyi, depending on where you live, plan on maybe double that cost due to "regulations"...

DIY solar is when you really want bottom price and/or you want the "fun" of doing it yourself!

fyi, you can easily spend several $k playing around with battery packs and solar panels...ask me how I know hehe
The problem is that in the city I live in a propane tank must be placed underground and due to property setback requirements I have no place to put one and we don't have natural gas in my area. DIY solar is also for when you know you need it and there aren't people around to do it for you.
 
We don't.

As you can read we talk about solar, wind, water and fuel generator's.
Last one being the backup when the rest is insufficient.

Living off grid in rural Thailand, we have no alternative then use multiple sources.
Sadly no water.

Our setup is build for the rainy season, not the 9 months Sunny days.
A week getting just 3kw out of our ,+14, KW array isn't a problem.

All depends on what you build for.
If it isn't enough, we have Gasoline generator, converted to propane, automatically starts if thee batteries go too low.

@Tuckles has already a generator.
I can only assume with Automatic Failover Switch.

That's the most complex part concerning the grid..

To make sure you don't have 2 power sources running at the same time in your home...

Small or larger solar setup that works together with the grid, many DIY are doing this.
For me easy, no grid, no regulations.

Combine the 3 isn't hard.
As the generator is the backup of the solar/wind/water/LiFePO4 "backup" of the grid.

General advice here is combined power source, with the knowledge that you don't want to store fuel for a month in suburban areas or town.

Besides that, solar is a lot cheaper backup solution that can provide enough energy when scaled correctly.

If you want to live of solar/,wind. During hurricane season (same as rain season in Thailand, lucky we don't have the strong winds a lot) you need 3 or 4 times the solar array then you need to use.

Even then during that period you need to limit excessive power in usage.
Cooking, heating water or rooms with electricity....
That would cost too much stored energy.

Propane is the best way for this.

Airconditioning is often a must.
Absolutely here.
Not even that much for the heat, the humidity destroy almost everything (books, clothes furniture) Refrigerator is a must, the medicine need cooling.
Efficient models don't use that much energy.
Our Samsung can do with 8 hours with out power, and just rise 4 degrees.
If we transfer the cooling element (standard build-in) (or extra element) from freezer to refrigerator, no problems at all.

Sure, you need to be creative, and adjust your energy consumption to the production.
During rain there is usually more wind then a sunny day.
And it can run also in the dark :)

All little bits help.
If you have massive amounts of rain, water turbine in the gutters can be energy efficient enough to compensate for the lack of sunshine.
Most those DIY setups are just for fun, they deliver just a few watt during rain.
More cost efficient would be a larger battery.

But you can't beat the fun factors:)
Luckily we don't have a monsoon season here and in fact its rare to have completely cloudy days. The saying here is that if you don't like the weather just wait 10 minutes, it will change. And yes, my next endeavor will be researching a wind turbine that I can erect without inviting a visit from our friends at city code enforcement. I live about a mile from the ocean as the crow flies so we usually have a breeze.
 
Hi Tuckles,

Greeting from New Orleans.

Here are some things to consider before you calculate your electric load. Determine if you can limit the number of rooms needed in your house during an outage. Add window units or a mini-split in those rooms. If you have an electric dryer, switch it to gas, same for hot water heater. Add a smaller, backup refrigerator to reduce the load even more.

I have a large enclosed patio with a portable AC that I use as my place of refuge. My refrigerator and freezer have power, but the rest of the house is shutdown. I use my Ryobi 18v batteries to power portable lights and fans when needed.

I started in 2017 with a Renogy 2000 watt, 24 volt kit with a 600 ah battery bank and 2000 watt AIMS inverter. I've added since then, but have kept with the general idea of a much smaller living area in the event of an extended outage.

You may have thought of these things already. When you think about the events to plan for, it can be daunting.

Best regards,
T-486
Yes Sir, you and I are tracking, for the same reasons.
 
I totally agree.
While it might be difficult for the elderly to retreat to a patio, the other way around is really doable.

Their room(s) as retreat area.
Probably will have toilet close by, suitable for elderly, and shower with seat.

Good idea @T-486 Ashepoo to place smaller refrigerator there, that can by a hybrid, working on DC and Propane.

In case of emergency relocate the medicine, if needed together with some ice cubes or packs to cool the first hour when the refrigerator is starting up.

Even then, like you noticed...
Gasoline or propane generator aren't a perfect solution for longer periods of time.
Adding solar, wind and LiFePO4 can help with that.

I don't know if there are airconditioning units that can run of electricity and propane, I know refrigerator can..
Never quite understood how they did this as it shows a flame....
And cools :)

If refrigerator can do it, airconditioning probably can do also.
Not sure if it's valuable, sometimes those solutions are so expensive, it's cheaper to add a week worth of LiFePO4 and enough solar :)

Hot water, we use propane water heater.
Electric heaters use 3500-6000 watts.
The amount of water flow I'm heating with small unit would take 7.500 watt to get the same Temperature and flow.
Not worth it.
Same goes for cooking, but I can understand why one would choose this over propane.
Safety.
And probably you are heating up canned food, not cooking huge meals that need many hours on the stove...

(Like my Thai wife likes to do...
She also uses often charcoal outside for cooking.. old habits hard to beat)
Yes, there are HVAC units that work on LPG/Natural Gas the same way an RV LPG refrigerator works but they are relatively new and not widely used in residential applications. They have one at the local gas company they showed me last time I was there trying to talk them into bringing a gas line to my area. As to cooking, all we really need is hot water. We have been into freeze drying food for a while and have a large selection of home cooked meals and dishes that just need hot water to re-hydrate, as well as ingredients to cook with as we choose. I plan on setting up a water heater to use as a dump for excess power from the panel array during the day, still researching that one, as well as a solar water heater.
And I agree with the wife, we have a killer brick rocket stove out back as well as a small wood oven I made out of a clay chiminea we had on our patio and oak trees all aroud us for free fuel (all you need is twigs and sticks). I do most of the cooking in the family and I will utilize these in the summer often to keep from heating up the house too much.
 
Back
Top