Assistance with Renogy 2000W Inverter Charger shutting down

[richardtc17]

Hello,
Since Will is so honest in his communication in his product testing, am thinking it is alright to share my experience with Renogy Solar following my purchase of a 2000W inverter charger. My apologies in advance if this posting is not in line with the mission of this forum.

I could use some assistance in figuring out why my Renogy Solar 2000W Inverter Charger (IC) is shutting down when running my 900 watt microwave in my travel trailer. I have gone as far as returning the IC to Renogy for testing. After waiting far too long for them to get to it they say the IC is functioning as intended.

My questions:

1. Is there anything in my setup that could be causing the IC to be shutting down while "functioning as intended" in a Renogy bench test?
2. Is there a better way to work with Renogy? They still have the IC and appear not to be able to send it back to me or do the right thing and give me a refund, even just based on how much hassle this has been for the past 5-plus months.

Summary of the process that I have been through:

• Soon after delivery the IC was installed by a professional RV solar electrician (along with a Chins 200ah LiFePO4 battery).
  Image - Final Installation
• Upon testing we were never able to prevent the IC from shutting when powering a 900W microwave. Our battery monitor shows the IC shutting down between 1200 and 1600 watts. In comparison, when I run the microwave on shore-power and measure through our surge protector it registers 1275 Watts at 12 Amps.
  Image - Shore power baseline - microwave off
  Image - Microwave on
• Bench testing results from Renogy:
  • "Here are the testing process that was made.
    • Battery bank is sized at 12V 300AH Lithium.
    • Unit is outputting about 1840W without issue. This is 92% of rated capacity.
    • Input VAC = 116.4 V
      • Customer incorrectly measured this as 0.0V due to their multimeter being set to VDC.
    • Output VAC = 115.8 V
    • Unit is working as intended in this configuration.
  • In this case, as part of the policy, if after testing the item being returned is not deemed defective, the buyer is responsible to pay the return shipping cost. We do not offer expedited shipping under any circumstances."
• After not contacting me about setting up the return of the IC I sent them an email in early August. Since then, they have promised me on Saturday, August 7, to contact me the following Monday (August 9) by email. After I did not get the promised Monday communication, I waited a few days I wrote them back expressing my frustration. I then got an email promise on a Thursday (August 19) that they would be calling me back on the next day, Friday, August 20. Once again, no promised follow-up in the form of a returned phone call.

Any advice that you have to offer about any of this would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Richard C.

 

[Bud Martin]

900W cooking power of Micowave oven, the input power will be much higher at running Watt (1275W as you can see in your measurement).
Is your shunt fast enough to capture the peak power surge when Microwave come on? it probably high enough surge to cause protection shutdown.

 

[John Frum]

What is the continuous rating in amps on our chins battery?
The microwave is probably drawing ~1440 watts which 12 amps@120VAC
1440 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 12.8 volts = 141.176470588 dc amps.

Could it be your bms is tripping on over current?
What guage are the cables between the battery and the inverter?
Could it be current induced voltage drop?
Can you run a similar sized purely resistive load like a ceramic heater?

I just saw that little 250 amp audio style breaker.
Those have a bad reputation here.
Not saying its the problem but it could be another problem waiting to happen.
Could you post a better picture of that breaker?

I don't like those doubled up wires either.

 

[williamsk913]

I am not sure in your case, but I have a 900 watt microwave that hates my 2000 watt inverter that is a different brand. I think it surges quite a bit. The very short surges are hard to capture on equipment. My setup could run a 13,000 BTU ac rooftop so I suspect it had more to do with the microwave itself.

 

[williamsk913]

Sometimes off brand fuses or circuit breakers can also introduce a bit of chaos to your system. Might be worth checking into if your wires are sized correctly?

 

[chrisski]

What size is the wire? 2/0 would be the least I’d use for a 12 volt 2000 watt inverter. I used 4/0.

Also, the lithium battery has a BMS that may kick in. A single Battleborn will be at about 1 C or 100 amps, so that coudl not supply your device without triggering a shutdown.

 

[John Frum]

What size is the wire? 2/0 would be the least I’d use for a 12 volt 2000 watt inverter. I used 4/0.

Also, the lithium battery has a BMS that may kick in. A single Battleborn will be at about 1 C or 100 amps, so that coudl not supply your device without triggering a shutdown.

Those wires don't like they come close to 2/0 awg equivalent.
Not super impressed by this pro install.

 

[chrisski]

Not super impressed by this pro install

Maybe my dream job of solar RV installs is not that unrealistic. I could do better. I bet the cost would be a lot more tHan what the OP was charged.

 

[John Frum]

The shunt is only metering the inverter/charger.
The only thing with discrete over current protection as far as I can see is the inverter/charger.

 

[richardtc17]

What is the continuous rating in amps on our chins battery?
The microwave is probably drawing ~1440 watts which 12 amps@120VAC
1440 ac watts / .85 conversion factor / 12.8 volts = 141.176470588 dc amps.

Could it be your bms is tripping on over current?
What guage are the cables between the battery and the inverter?
Could it be current induced voltage drop?
Can you run a similar sized purely resistive load like a ceramic heater?

I just saw that little 250 amp audio style breaker.
Those have a bad reputation here.
Not saying its the problem but it could be another problem waiting to happen.
Could you post a better picture of that breaker?

I don't like those doubled up wires either.

The cables are #4 awg. The battery and the inverter charger are about 3 feet apart.

I have attached a picture of the breaker that is only partially visible in the system picture. It is difficult picture to get given that the couch is back in place. I could do better if necessary.

Here are the parameters for the CHINS 200Ah battery:

Rated Capacity (0.2C): 200Ah / 2560Wh
Cycle life: > 2000 cycles at 100% Depth of Discharge (DoD), up to 5000 cycles at 80% DoD
Rated voltage: 12.8V
Charge voltage: 14.4 - 14.6V
Cut-off voltage: 10V
Depth of Discharge (DoD): 100%
Standard charge current: 40A
Charging time: Approximately 6 hours
Max continuous charge current: 100A
Max continuous discharge current: 200A
Peak discharge current: 400A (Duration: less than 5 seconds)
Operating temperatures: Charge 0°C~50°C,
Discharge -20°C~60°C, Storage -20°C~50°C
Impedance: ≤ 15mΩ

Thanks so much!

Richard

 

[richardtc17]

Sometimes off brand fuses or circuit breakers can also introduce a bit of chaos to your system. Might be worth checking into if your wires are sized correctly?

The cables are #4 awg. The inverter/charger and battery are about 3 feet apart.

Thanks for all!

 

[John Frum]

Ok double 4awg is sufficient but I would rather see a single 2/0 awg wire.
The BMS is rated for 200amps so that should be fine.
Every wire should have over-current protection this is a fire safety issue.
I don't like that no name audio breaker.
Also that shunt is in the wrong place which makes fairly useless.

If you have a ceramic heater try it and see if it works or fails in the same way.
Also see if anything gets hot when your microwave load misbehaves.
I would start with the breaker.

 

[John Frum]

@richardtc17 why are there 3 thick wires going to the battery positive terminal and 2 thick wires going to the battery negative terminal?

UPDATE: never mind, I see 2 wires going into the upstream side of the shunt.

 

[richardtc17]

Those wires don't like they come close to 2/0 awg equivalent.
Not super impressed by this pro install.

The wires are 4 awg. Looks like the installation manual calls for 2/0.

Thanks!

 

[richardtc17]

Ok double 4awg is sufficient but I would rather see a single 2/0 awg wire.
The BMS is rated for 200amps so that should be fine.
Every wire should have over-current protection this is a fire safety issue.
I don't like that no name audio breaker.
Also that shunt is in the wrong place which makes fairly useless.

If you have a ceramic heater try it and see if it works or fails in the same way.
Also see if anything gets hot when your microwave load misbehaves.
I would start with the breaker.

Thanks! Gotta get the device back from Renogy so I can reinstall and test.

 

[John Frum]

The wires are 4 awg. Looks like the installation manual calls for 2/0.

Thanks!

This pro install needs remedial action.

 

[chrisski]

This pro install needs remedial action.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a decent for hire installer for an RV installation. You will quickly start to notice things like this.

I'm not sure RV installations are covered by any code. ABYC is a boat and yacht code, and NEC code is more of a house code. Neither covers mobile ground installations, so seems to be a free for all. Had your installation been covered by a code, you could probably take the installer to small claims court.

I'm fine with the battery, DC to DC charger, and inverter you have installed. If I were to have a business to install this stuff, I'd need parts plus $400 per day to cover labor. Aside from the three parts I mentioned, I think there's be up to about $100 for cabling, lugs, shrink wrap, hardware, and fuses. To me that'd be a days worth of labor if the panels are in place already. So to fix what the other shop did I'd probably need to charge $500 to make a living. Not many people are willing to pay that.

If you have a trailer 35' or longer and use this when its cold, you may find that the 200 ah battery is not enough to power the propane heater motor overnight, or maybe just enough on the coldest days. My biggest draw was 165 ah on a subfreezing night, mostly due to the 9 amp blower motor and the 14 hours a day where sun did not provide power to the panels.

 

[shadowsteve]

The shunt is only metering the inverter/charger.
The only thing with discrete over current protection as far as I can see is the inverter/charger.

It looks like it's measuring all the draw for the trailer but none of the charge. The trailer battery ground looks like it's on the RH side of the shunt

 

[larry.barello]

I had the same problem with my Renogy IC. Above 110A the inverter would fault after 2-3 minutes. Long story short: the circuit breaker was crap. It would "soft" open, the voltage would drop, the lighting would flicker, but not go out, and the inverter would fault.

Dump it for a switch and an ANL fuse (I used a cheap audio 250A - looks identical to what Renogy sells). In other forums Blue Sea and Bussman breakers are recommended. I have not tried them, but I have tried 200, 250 and 300A cheap thermal breakers (amazon, *everything* comes from china) and none worked reliably. I should try a Bussman/Blue Sea but the fuse is wired and it works so I stopped the investigation. Now I can draw 180A (2kw) for 10 minutes w/o complaint from system. Things work so well now that sometimes I forget and try to make espresso while cooking my oatmeal and the inverter complains when the heater block comes on (>2kw total) but doesn't shut down. I thing Renogy specifies 10 sec @ 2400wt before faulting.

BTW I use 2 gauge wire and it works fine. I have about 4-5' in the inverter loop (battery, switch, fuse, inverter, return) and it is plenty low gauge. 2/0 is double the wire (IIRC 4 gauges double the area) and necessary if you have longer runs.

 

[richardtc17]

I am sorry to be out of touch as I was a bit hamstrung because it was taking so long to return my bench tested inverter charger. As it turns out they are unable to return it for whatever reason, I didn't ask. I will be getting a refund on the inverter charger which gives me an opportunity to somewhat start over. So here are my plans and some questions:

• Would it be better to go with a separate dedicated inverter and dedicated charger? I would use a 2000 watt dedicated pure sine wave inverter and possibly trade out the existing WFCO charger with one for lithium batteries (WF-8735LIS). Any Feedback on that would be much appreciated.
• Quite frankly, I looked at a number of combo inverter chargers online and wasn't impressed with any of them except the Victron at $1,200+. I am not up for spending that much. I am looking at this dedicated inverter: Link to Inverter
• Replace the existing WFCO power center with one able to charge lithium batteries: Link to Charger
• Replace the 250 amp breaker with a quality 200 amp fuse as denoted in the installation manual.
• Replace cables, the manual calls for 2/0 cabling versus 4awg that was used.

Am I missing anything. Comments appreciated.

Thanks for all!