Ats & Honda generator & panel.. Can it work?

[Tinycabin]

Hey there,

My first post. I'm planning my system for my tiny off grid cabin. It is wired for ac with a regular distribution panel and circuit breakers. Currently the panel is fed directly off my Honda 2000 generator.

I'd like to make a battery bank and inverter system to power my cabin during the day then charge batteirs with Honda during the night. No solar at this time yet.

The main component will be an ATS. This is the one I bought https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00153EYTO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_asPlFbKWARZ3Z

My plan was to hook it up in a way where when I plug my generator into the system - it will send power to both my ats and my iota battery charger at the same time so my ats will send the power to my panel but the generator will also charge my batteirs at the same time. What I realized that this might cause my generator to overload and shut down if the demand from both the iota and my panel (running chest freezer and super effiecnt ductless ac among other things) is too high as I am not sure what demand is my iota battery chargers (dls30) will demand for charging batteries but I am assuming a lot of power?

Any notes?

My battery bank will be 6x 6v agm 210ah connected in parallel and series creating 12v 630ah bank.

FYI my ductless ac takes about 300watt to run. I'll check later on how much my fridge demends but since it is a chest conversion I'll assume not much..

 

[John Frum]

batteries->inverter-->|
                      |->ats->panel
generator------------>|->charger->batteries

Is your generator currently configured for floating neutral and your panel is the point of bond?
If you don't know what I'm talking about please ask.

 

[madmax]

why don't you try running both without the ats. or you could hook up a meter and see actual draw.

 

[John Frum]

why don't you try running both without the ats. or you could hook up a meter and see actual draw.

That sounds like a very bad idea.
AC power sources need to be synchronized.

 

[Tinycabin]

I don't know what you are talking about. can you please explain?

I'll outline what I have now exactly so maybe that will answer your question.

Currently I have this on the outside wall of my cabin - https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B003A48CZ8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_eaQlFbPMQGHDA

That has a romex wire that runs to my panel and feeds those top leads so my circuit breakers have power so my cabin runs.The generator is obviously plugged into that with an extension cord.

I haven't set up anything yet in terms battery bank, ats, and inverter. I'm first trying plan it with the generous help of this forum.

 

[Tinycabin]

BTW... My electrician friend came over to help me install the ductless ac and he noticed an issue - on my panel the neutral had power and the hot / black didn't.. It was reveresed. Cabin worked fine like this for years but it is wrong obviously. He came to the conclusion that it is due to the generator not having a ground (I do have a ground off the panel - copper rod in ground). He then connected the neutral bar in my panel to the panel itself since it is grounded and that fixed it... I am not 100% sure that is what he did so if this doesn't make sense let me know and I'll ask him. He recommended I make another ground for generator and connect that ground screw on it to it. I will do that in the future

 

[John Frum]

have a look at your panel and possible post a picture.
High res and high contrast if you want me to look at it cause I have poor eyesight.
I expect you will see a green screw that bonds neutral to ground in the panel.
I would also expect there to a green wire that goes to a ground rod driven into the earth.
Also If you check continuity between the ground and neutral plug on the generator there should not be any.
That would mean that the generator is floating and that the bond is at the panel.

 

[John Frum]

I think you should get your electrician friend to hook this up using my diagram as a reference if needed.
This is a life safety and fire safety issue.
From what you have said so far I'm gonna have to take a step back from this.
Good luck.
Still glad to help with the dc side up the inverter.

 

[John Frum]

dc_system->inverter->|
generator->|-------->|->ats->panel
           |->charger->dc_system

Better diagram.

 

[Tinycabin]

Again so far I have NOT hooked up anything in terms of power system. I've been using the cabin for 4 years and had no issues using just generator to power distribution panel...

My plan is to have my electrician hook this up for me and I'll bring it here to make final connections.

I'll go over your diagram and work on it.

But in general, you saying that hooking up generator to both the iota and distribution box will be fine in terms of not having the generator overloading and shutting down if done properly?

 

[John Frum]

I can't seem to map what you were saying to what I have been saying.
Maybe by iota you mean charger?
Maybe by distribution box you mean panel?

 

[Tinycabin]

Sorry for slow response. I was actually int he cabin there fro the first time with my wife and kids.

Please bear with me. I know I am probably using wrong terminology here but rest assured that I am capable of doing this but I just am a person who likes to research and plan ahead as much as possible before actually taking the plunge.

By IOTA I mean charger. I own (not installed) their DLS30. Distribution box is indeed my panel.

"have a look at your panel and possible post a picture.
High res and high contrast if you want me to look at it cause I have poor eyesight.
I expect you will see a green screw that bonds neutral to ground in the panel.
I would also expect there to a green wire that goes to a ground rod driven into the earth.
Also If you check continuity between the ground and neutral plug on the generator there should not be any.
That would mean that the generator is floating and that the bond is at the panel. "

I forgot to take a picture for you but you are indeed correct: I have a green screw and wire between neutral and ground at the panel. You are also correct about ground to outside rod. I put in that rod myself... All the ground wires from the cabin got he the panel then from there to that rod.

I just read this after your comment: https://generatorbible.com/blog/bonded-neutral-vs-floating-neutral/

I do not fully grasp it but I am hoping that from my explanation of how my set up currently is with panel and generator you understand.

I think from your diagram you confirmed how I thought the system should work: (very simplified) from generator a wire will run and feed both charger and ATS. Inverter will be connected to ATS as well so when generator is plugged in - ATS will switch the panels to be fed by generator but the generator will also feed charger.

My only concern is that the charger will "call" for too much power from generator as the generator will also support my cabin which will be a ductless ac, freezer conversion, lights.. But I actually just got off the phone with IOTA - the maker of the charger. They said the max pull is 850watt then once it is fully charged it drops to like 26watts...

In my plan I will only use generator at night. So there will only be 3 main loads: the charger at 850 watt, ductless which cycles on and off to about 400 watt, and my fridge which also cycles on and off at 400-500 watt. So I think I will be fine for not overloading generator

what do you think?

 

[madmax]

after reading this (again) you want the ats to disconnect the load from the inverter and transfer it to the generator side, which will also charge the house batteries.

While this can be done, there are at least a few ways which this is much simpler to accomplish. a UPS system is basically what your after, with the small addition of a solar charger attached to the battery bank. this is how a lot of rvs are done. they utilize an inverter charger, which also has load pass through. When line power is avaliable, it transfers the load to the line, and charges the battery. when the line power is disconnected, it resumes inverter function. It becomes its own transfer switch. Your peak generator numbers still apply, and so does your peak inverter load numbers.