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Auto Generator Start Function & Generator Incompatibility

CarlCruzin

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Oct 14, 2020
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Hey guys, wondering if you have a diy or commercial solutions to my AGS incompatibility?

My inverter has a 2-wire AGS function that is not compatible with my generator's 3-wire control.

Here are the specifics:

Generator: 3-wire control. To start press the 2-way switch up so it closes the starter loop circuit (about 5-7sec). To Stop, press the switch down (about 5-7sec) so it closes the stop circuit loop.

Inverter: 2-wire control. Closes circuit to start, stays closed until charging is complete at which time it returns to open.
 

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There is a company that makes it. Atkinson electronics. Their GSCM.

I haven’t bought it for my rig yet. But this one looks like it will interface between my Victron CCGX and my Onan generator.

Good Luck
 
Regarding the 2 way MOMENTARY Gen Start/Stop switch, we have to assume that damage may occur if either of the contacts were to remain closed during the entire run time or stop time. Therefore the simplest DIY solution would be to use specialized, Delay type "ice cube" sometimes referred to octal base relays because of the 8 pin circular base they plug into. Either a Single Pole Double Throw SPDT or DPDT would work. The latter may just have unused contacts.
First thing is to look up the Contact rating specifications of the AGS on your inverter. They are typically what is called "dry" contacts which means there is no voltage or current supplied by the Inverter, it simply closes or opens the relay contacts as necessary. Get the Amp and Volt maximum ratings of the contacts. Hopefully the rating for voltage is higher than the Battery Voltage coming into your inverter because you would want to use the Batt to supply power through the AGS contacts to the ice cube relay(s) coil which will cause them to change state.
Next, Go to a Grainger or similar catalog and browse through the multi function and single function time delay relays to find the devices with the proper function AND with an input voltage that is the same as your Inverter battery. I don't want to make this too long or confusing but please feel free to respond to this post with any questions you have. I'm sure we can come up with an excellent DIY solution that can be put together inside something like an 8" x 8" x 4" NEMA box.
 
Regarding the 2 way MOMENTARY Gen Start/Stop switch, we have to assume that damage may occur if either of the contacts were to remain closed during the entire run time or stop time. Therefore the simplest DIY solution would be to use specialized, Delay type "ice cube" sometimes referred to octal base relays because of the 8 pin circular base they plug into. Either a Single Pole Double Throw SPDT or DPDT would work. The latter may just have unused contacts.
First thing is to look up the Contact rating specifications of the AGS on your inverter. They are typically what is called "dry" contacts which means there is no voltage or current supplied by the Inverter, it simply closes or opens the relay contacts as necessary. Get the Amp and Volt maximum ratings of the contacts. Hopefully the rating for voltage is higher than the Battery Voltage coming into your inverter because you would want to use the Batt to supply power through the AGS contacts to the ice cube relay(s) coil which will cause them to change state.
Next, Go to a Grainger or similar catalog and browse through the multi function and single function time delay relays to find the devices with the proper function AND with an input voltage that is the same as your Inverter battery. I don't want to make this too long or confusing but please feel free to respond to this post with any questions you have. I'm sure we can come up with an excellent DIY solution that can be put together inside something like an 8" x 8" x 4" NEMA box.
Hi BentleyJ, thank you for your response. I haven't heard of delay relays, but will look into it. Here is the description from the inverter manual, it sounds like a standard dry contact:

Auto Gen Start(optional) The inverter can be customized to start up a generator when battery voltage goes low. When the inverter goes to low battery alarm, it can send a signal to start a generator, and turn the generator off after battery charging is finished. (Generator must have auto start function.) The auto gen start feature will only work with generators designed to work with this feature. There is an open/close relay that will short circuit the positive and negative cable from a generator. The input DC voltage can vary, but the Max current the relay can carry is 16Amp


I have heard of Arduino boards and how they can be very versatile. One idea that has come to my mind so far is seeing if I can design one for a reasonable cost that will accomplish this. Either by converting the AGS output to signals that are compatible with my generator, or bypassing the AGS function and programming the same AGS start and stop voltages
 
Hi BentleyJ, thank you for your response. I haven't heard of delay relays, but will look into it. Here is the description from the inverter manual, it sounds like a standard dry contact:

Auto Gen Start(optional) The inverter can be customized to start up a generator when battery voltage goes low. When the inverter goes to low battery alarm, it can send a signal to start a generator, and turn the generator off after battery charging is finished. (Generator must have auto start function.) The auto gen start feature will only work with generators designed to work with this feature. There is an open/close relay that will short circuit the positive and negative cable from a generator. The input DC voltage can vary, but the Max current the relay can carry is 16Amp


I have heard of Arduino boards and how they can be very versatile. One idea that has come to my mind so far is seeing if I can design one for a reasonable cost that will accomplish this. Either by converting the AGS output to signals that are compatible with my generator, or bypassing the AGS function and programming the same AGS start and stop voltages
Arduino is a definite possibility, I'm not a very good C or Python programmer so tend to be more comfortable with simple analog circuits. For clarification, I was specifically referring to Time Interval Relays vs. On Delay or Off Delay type. In thinking about the logic flow it occurred to me that in order to make the type of system I described work, you probably need 2 relays and a Batt+ wire that is hot all the time as well as the signal from the Inverter AGS relay. Let me know what you end up doing.
 
An update for those who are interested:

1. Tech support at Cummins referred me to Deep Sea Electronics, stating they have a 2-wire to 3-wire control solution. I got in touch with them today and sure enough they have an affordable, programmable unit that meets my requirements: $130-$230 cost https://tinyurl.com/fccxncez

2. I found out that my Inverter/charger low battery alarm is too low (42v) which renders it useless for me since my Gyll 48v battery packs' bms will disconnect discharge at about 45v :-/ so I would need to find another source to trigger the AGS system.

2.1 On the plus side, I found a feature-rich shunt system that will be able to serve as the AGS "base signal". I spoke with support and it can close/open it's output relay based on either battery pack voltage or SOC! I believe that the SOC function will be so much better than anything the integrated charger could have offered. This way I can kick on the generator at say 25% and off at 95%. Thornway Labs PowerMon ~$200 cost https://tinyurl.com/57mvpuj2
 
An update for those who are interested:

1. Tech support at Cummins referred me to Deep Sea Electronics, stating they have a 2-wire to 3-wire control solution. I got in touch with them today and sure enough they have an affordable, programmable unit that meets my requirements: $130-$230 cost https://tinyurl.com/fccxncez

2. I found out that my Inverter/charger low battery alarm is too low (42v) which renders it useless for me since my Gyll 48v battery packs' bms will disconnect discharge at about 45v :-/ so I would need to find another source to trigger the AGS system.

2.1 On the plus side, I found a feature-rich shunt system that will be able to serve as the AGS "base signal". I spoke with support and it can close/open it's output relay based on either battery pack voltage or SOC! I believe that the SOC function will be so much better than anything the integrated charger could have offered. This way I can kick on the generator at say 25% and off at 95%. Thornway Labs PowerMon ~$200 cost https://tinyurl.com/57mvpuj2
Nice, solution 2.1 sounds like the winner!
 
An update for those who are interested:

1. Tech support at Cummins referred me to Deep Sea Electronics, stating they have a 2-wire to 3-wire control solution. I got in touch with them today and sure enough they have an affordable, programmable unit that meets my requirements: $130-$230 cost https://tinyurl.com/fccxncez

2. I found out that my Inverter/charger low battery alarm is too low (42v) which renders it useless for me since my Gyll 48v battery packs' bms will disconnect discharge at about 45v :-/ so I would need to find another source to trigger the AGS system.

2.1 On the plus side, I found a feature-rich shunt system that will be able to serve as the AGS "base signal". I spoke with support and it can close/open it's output relay based on either battery pack voltage or SOC! I believe that the SOC function will be so much better than anything the integrated charger could have offered. This way I can kick on the generator at say 25% and off at 95%. Thornway Labs PowerMon ~$200 cost https://tinyurl.com/57mvpuj2
What sort of generator do you have?
 
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