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Auto transformer dangers

John Schmidt

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Joined
Dec 30, 2020
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The use of auto transformers has been discussed on Will's, David's and Ian's channels. I've read through countless comment on the topic when use with GroWatt (or any 240v only) inverter, and I remained confused. I was hugely confused by Ian's excellent demo where the 120v bulbs blew when the breaker was tripped. The bulbs blew because the suddenly got 240v, but why did they get 240v? I didn't understand it, and I actually didn't want to believe it (because I had already invested a lot of $$ in equipment). Hope this helps others understand. I won't be using my auto transformers for 120v loads.

I posted on Ian's channel:

I didn't want to believe that using an auto-transformer was going to be dangerous, but I really wanted to understand why those light bulbs blew when the breaker tripped. Below is the explanation. I will be changing to a system that does not require an auto transformer. Thank-you for the time that you took for this excellent demonstration.

Disadvantages of an Autotransformer from: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transformer/auto-transformer.html

1. The main disadvantage of an autotransformer is that it does not have the primary to secondary winding isolation of a conventional double wound transformer. Then an autotransformer can not safely be used for stepping down higher voltages to much lower voltages suitable for smaller loads.

2. If the secondary side winding becomes open-circuited, load current stops flowing through the primary winding stopping the transformer action resulting in the full primary voltage being applied to the secondary terminals.

3. If the secondary circuit suffers a short-circuit condition, the resulting primary current would be much larger than an equivalent double wound transformer due to the increased flux linkage damaging the autotransformer.

4. Since the neutral connection is common to both the primary and secondary windings, earthing of the secondary winding automatically Earth’s the primary as there is no isolation between the two windings. Double wound transformers are sometimes used to isolate equipment from earth.
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It gave me serious pause, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now I'm glad to stay away from that sort of rigup to avoid wrecking things.
 
The use of auto transformers has been discussed on Will's, David's and Ian's channels. I've read through countless comment on the topic when use with GroWatt (or any 240v only) inverter, and I remained confused. I was hugely confused by Ian's excellent demo where the 120v bulbs blew when the breaker was tripped. The bulbs blew because the suddenly got 240v, but why did they get 240v? I didn't understand it, and I actually didn't want to believe it (because I had already invested a lot of $$ in equipment). Hope this helps others understand. I won't be using my auto transformers for 120v loads.

I posted on Ian's channel:

I didn't want to believe that using an auto-transformer was going to be dangerous, but I really wanted to understand why those light bulbs blew when the breaker tripped. Below is the explanation. I will be changing to a system that does not require an auto transformer. Thank-you for the time that you took for this excellent demonstration.

Disadvantages of an Autotransformer from: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transformer/auto-transformer.html

1. The main disadvantage of an autotransformer is that it does not have the primary to secondary winding isolation of a conventional double wound transformer. Then an autotransformer can not safely be used for stepping down higher voltages to much lower voltages suitable for smaller loads.

2. If the secondary side winding becomes open-circuited, load current stops flowing through the primary winding stopping the transformer action resulting in the full primary voltage being applied to the secondary terminals.

3. If the secondary circuit suffers a short-circuit condition, the resulting primary current would be much larger than an equivalent double wound transformer due to the increased flux linkage damaging the autotransformer.

4. Since the neutral connection is common to both the primary and secondary windings, earthing of the secondary winding automatically Earth’s the primary as there is no isolation between the two windings. Double wound transformers are sometimes used to isolate equipment from earth.
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Does this mean that you are selling your new equipment? I would be very interested in taking this "dangerous" equipment off of your hands, for the right price. ;)
 
There are three primary issues associated with using an auto transformer.

1) Some European 230v inverters neutral-ground to one side of their 230 vac output. This is absolute no-no for U.S. split phase, requiring the European inverter to be modified to disconnect the neutral-ground from one side of its 230vac.

2) Many folks incorrectly wire the 230 vac inverter to breaker box through dual 240v breakers and separately wire their auto transformer also through another 240v dual breaker in panel with auto transformer center tap neutral going to breaker panel neutral bus bar. If auto transformer breaker is opened while inverter is still supplying 230vac to panel you have a floating neutral situation in panel. 120v ac loads neutral will be free to float between L1 to L2 side dependent on how many 120vac loads are turned on each L1, L2 side. Good way to blow out a lot of 120 vac equipment.

Auto transformer must be connected directly to 240vac inverter output (with separate dual pole small breaker box between inverter and auto transformer) and L1, L2, and neutral from auto transformer brought into electrical panel with L1 and L2 fed into a single dual 240vac breaker. Center tap neutral can be directly connected to panel neutral bus bar.

3) When having connected grid pass through on split phase 240/120vac through inverter and neutral from grid is passed through to neutral output of inverter (auto-transformer center tap) any 120vac voltage imbalance from grid L1-N or L2-N will try to be corrected by auto-transformer. Voltage imbalance of 120vac sides may be caused by your neighbors 120 vac loads that share the same utility pole transformer. If you have a good quality grid pole transformer and grid connections it may not be a significant issue. You may have 2-3 amps of auto transformer load current caused by grid imbalance that will eat up a little bit of auto-transformer load capacity.

Other: These small auto-transformers being sold (approx 8" box size) are really only capable of maybe 2kVA to 2.5 kVA. This is normally okay as any of your 120vac loads that are on opposite L1-L2 side phase will not contribute any current through auto-transformer if the amount of 120 vac loads on each L1,L2 sides are similar. For example, if you have 3 kVA 120vac loads on L1 side and 2 kVA on 120 vac L2 side load, only 1 kVA balancing current is carried by auto-transformer. If you have a 6kVA inverter and 120vac load L1 side with 4 kVA and no 120 vac load on L2 side the auto-transformer will over heat since it must carry the 4 kVA balancing current. This is an unusual use case but it is possible. Be careful of carelessly wired kitchen with multiple 20 amp breaker outlets wired to same L1 or L2 phase side.

240 vac load contribute no loading on auto transformer. So any high current loads should be converted to 240vac if possible. A water pump is a good example of motor that can be rewired easily to run on 240vac instead of 120vac.
 
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These are all installer/user issues. If a person is unqualified, they should let someone who is do the work.
On a DIY forum, I've yet to see anyone that is truly qualified! We all have opinions and are learning, and change opinions as we learn. The many concerns with external auto transformers are valid, with various ideas for solutions for some of the concerns. Ian's testing explained a lot.
 
On a DIY forum, I've yet to see anyone that is truly qualified! We all have opinions and are learning, and change opinions as we learn. The many concerns with external auto transformers are valid, with various ideas for solutions for some of the concerns. Ian's testing explained a lot.
My point was that there's nothing wrong or dangerous about the transformer. The only concern is with an incorrect use of it.
 
Does this mean that you are selling your new equipment? I would be very interested in taking this "dangerous" equipment off of your hands, for the right price. ;)
I just might! I have the GroWatt 5000ES and two of the SolarEdge auto transformers (bought a spare). I don't trust myself enough not to kill myself or someone else. Something like the LV6048 or GroWatt SPF 6000T DVM-MPV might be better for me. I'm in Maine, so shipping anything out of state wouldn't make sense, given how much these weigh.
 
I just might! I have the GroWatt 5000ES and two of the SolarEdge auto transformers (bought a spare). I don't trust myself enough not to kill myself or someone else. Something like the LV6048 or GroWatt SPF 6000T DVM-MPV might be better for me. I'm in Maine, so shipping anything out of state wouldn't make sense, given how much these weigh.
Don't be so quick to to judge either of your later choices as safe and fool proof. I cannot speak for MPP but GW documentation is wholly inadequate.
 
Does this mean that you are selling your new equipment? I would be very interested in taking this "dangerous" equipment off of your hands, for the right price. ;)
David Poz installed a three pole breaker to address over current issues in the N of the auto-transformer. Rather than just break N and L1 between the inverters and the autotransformer and panel, the three pole breaker could have been wired to break N, L1 and L2. What was the reason for keeping L2 from the inverters connected to the autotransformer and panel? His video, if you haven't seen it, is at:
 
David Poz installed a three pole breaker to address over current issues in the N of the auto-transformer. Rather than just break N and L1 between the inverters and the autotransformer and panel, the three pole breaker could have been wired to break N, L1 and L2. What was the reason for keeping L2 from the inverters connected to the autotransformer and panel? His video, if you haven't seen it, is at:
Either way works fine. The object is to stop current flowing to the loads, if the neutral is lost. And, protect the transformer from overcurrent. Either option will accomplish the goal.
 
Either way works fine. The object is to stop current flowing to the loads, if the neutral is lost. And, protect the transformer from overcurrent. Either option will accomplish the goal.
Either way works fine. The object is to stop current flowing to the loads, if the neutral is lost. And, protect the transformer from overcurrent. Either option will accomplish the goal.
Trying not to give up on the autotransformer and SPF 5000ES. And trying to live up to your motto "If I can do it, you can do it". We'll see about that! Fingers crossed. Thank-you for the help!
 
I just might! I have the GroWatt 5000ES and two of the SolarEdge auto transformers (bought a spare). I don't trust myself enough not to kill myself or someone else. Something like the LV6048 or GroWatt SPF 6000T DVM-MPV might be better for me. I'm in Maine, so shipping anything out of state wouldn't make sense, given how much these weigh.
Yea this is the very reason I went with Sol-Ark.
To many maybes and what ifs..
 
Trying not to give up on the autotransformer and SPF 5000ES. And trying to live up to your motto "If I can do it, you can do it". We'll see about that! Fingers crossed. Thank-you for the help!
I'm running this setup, with no concerns.
You just have to deal with the couple of caveat's.
I have zero regrets. And am very satisfied with what I am getting, for the price I have paid.
 
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