diy solar

diy solar

Automatic Transfer Switches

S

scottnichol

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Messages
19
Hey Everyone:

I've got a small system I put together more or less as an experiment to power some gear in my office and learn about setting up solar systems. It consists of 4x100W panels, Renogy 40A charge controller going into a 200Ah battery that's tied to a 2000W inverter. Pretty standard setup. And right now in order to use the energy being stored in the battery, I've got to plug in the power strip with my laptop, monitors and a couple other accessories into the inverter and turn on the inverter.

What I'd like to do is have some kind of automatic transfer switch that can use the battery until it falls below a given voltage, then switch to AC power. I did a google search and landed on this video explainer:


This is the product being featured and it looks like precisely the solution I was looking for.

MOES Dual Power Controller 50A 5500 Watt Automatic Transfer Switch

Has anyone had any experience with this gear? Is it reliable? Are there other alternatives to consider?


Thanks in advance!
scott nichol
 
Last edited:
this might be what i’m looking for, i want to run separate 12v battery banks through a single inverter
071AA5C1-CC6C-4BB4-93B6-DC0E5B37E3E7.png
 
i have just had delivered a moes ats and first job, get its jacket off and have a look inside well two relays and a board now if this thing can do what it says it can do then bloody marvellous but the cable is a bit thin so 11kw at 240 volts. my inverter is only 8kw so all i have got to do is connect straight to the consumer unit and it will run my whole house what do you think
 
Anyone else use these before? Quite a bit of concerning reviews about frying inverters and other problems. Need to find something I don't have to worry about.
 
brandonboosted said:
Anyone else use these before? Quite a bit of concerning reviews about frying inverters and other problems. Need to find something I don't have to worry about.
Click to expand...

I found this review. Seems to tell about the issues and how to make it work if anyone is interested.

It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!

**Update**
I found a work around solution for my needs with 2 contactors and an electrical/mechanical interlock from ABB. I used "public power" to energize the contactors. I wired it in reverse essentially. I used 1 hot wire only to the output and it feeds out of the inverter or public power to their respective contactors. This is way way safer.
The problem is if you use this as intended and the relay associated with the public power fails it will back feed to your inverter and destroy it. If you dont believe me take it apart and see for yourself. The solid state electronics(which work great!) Energize two form C relays that their commons produce the "hot" wire and neutral output. Please do the same or risk a relay failure which 100% will destroy your inverter. Just read the other 1 star reviews where this has already happened.
It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!
 

Attachments

  • B1NIFRmYdoS._SL1600_.jpg
    B1NIFRmYdoS._SL1600_.jpg
    95.7 KB · Views: 37
  • C1F+ZcBXPoS._SL1600_.jpg
    C1F+ZcBXPoS._SL1600_.jpg
    168.8 KB · Views: 32
brandonboosted said:
Need to find something I don't have to worry about.
Click to expand...
Both the Moes and GoPower TS-30 are just basic transfer relays so would cause the same problems that a unit using phase synchronisation would avoid but these are too expensive,

My solution with a 1500w inverter is a 1500w 240/12v variable PSU set at 12.6v running 24/7...so goes above idle use when Bv is less than this.
 
sunshine said:
Both the Moes and GoPower TS-30 are just basic transfer relays so would cause the same problems that a unit using phase synchronisation would avoid but these are too expensive,

My solution with a 1500w inverter is a 1500w 240/12v variable PSU set at 12.6v running 24/7...so goes above idle use when Bv is less than this.
Click to expand...
Phase synchronization is how brands like Victron work I’m assuming? This prowatt xfer switch probably has the same tech in it as the moes?
 
brandonboosted said:
Phase synchronization is how brands like Victron work I’m assuming? This prowatt xfer switch probably has the same tech in it as the moes?
Click to expand...
The Victron, Prowatt, GoPower, Moes are all transfer switches and operate similarly. No doubt the price would influence what components are used. Anything with phase synchronization seem to be far more expensive and incorporated into the inverter and even then some that are sold and appear to be p/synk still only use internal switches.

Keeping the inverter on and out of standby with a small constant load may be one solution to inverter problems when using transfer switches. Natural selection probably solves any appliance issues....eventually!
 
Interesting conversation here as I have killed two 3k inverters and wondering if its the ATS or my wiring. I have the neutral grounded to house ground.
 
As was mentioned in a previous post in this thread one can purchase an Inverter/Charger with built-in transfer switch that synchronizes the AC when the transfer occurs.

I use the Samlex EVO-2224-Inverter-Charger (24VDC Input and 2200VA 120VAC Output) with built in transfer switch that is listed:
The frequency and phase of the internal backup Inverter Section are always kept synchronized with the AC input source. This facilitates “extremely fast” transfer time of up to 16 ms. Also, transfer from the Inverter Section to the AC input source and vice versa takes place at zero crossing of the voltage waveform – this ensures (i) negligible arcing / erosion of Transfer Relay contacts and (ii) negligible Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) associated with arcing.

This synchronized feature also helps the wear & tear on loads when the auto transfer switches from one AC source like the Grid/Generator to the Inverter/Charger and vice versa.

I started out with an inverter and used an external auto transfer switch and was never really happy with the results. The setup did work OK, but the switching was a little slow at times and some devices especially with motors seemed to hiccup somewhat once in a while.

Samlex Makes other 12, 24 & 48 volt Inverter/Chargers with this feature. The 48 Volt unit is 120/240 VAC split-phase output. The others are 120 VAC output.

DonRowe.com: Samlex America Inverter/Chargers

Samlex America Inverter/Chargers
www.donrowe.com
 
Dynoman said:
I found this review. Seems to tell about the issues and how to make it work if anyone is interested.

It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!

**Update**
I found a work around solution for my needs with 2 contactors and an electrical/mechanical interlock from ABB. I used "public power" to energize the contactors. I wired it in reverse essentially. I used 1 hot wire only to the output and it feeds out of the inverter or public power to their respective contactors. This is way way safer.
The problem is if you use this as intended and the relay associated with the public power fails it will back feed to your inverter and destroy it. If you dont believe me take it apart and see for yourself. The solid state electronics(which work great!) Energize two form C relays that their commons produce the "hot" wire and neutral output. Please do the same or risk a relay failure which 100% will destroy your inverter. Just read the other 1 star reviews where this has already happened.
It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!
Click to expand...
Is a coffee maker considered and inductive load? I have a Moes ats 50/ 5500, So far i have fried 2, 3k inverters, 1st one lasted 4 months and the 2nd lasted 30 days. I'm not sure if its me grounding the neutral off the inverter to the ground of the house power or its because it switched the load to house and back fed something. the 2nd time it ruined 1 24vac transformer, pooped the 20 amp circuit breaker that supplies the house power.(to the inverter) house breaker, and ruined a 20amp GFCI. That all happened when we plugged the coffee maker in and I believe the battery was weak.
 
sparkyv said:
Is a coffee maker considered and inductive load? I have a Moes ats 50/ 5500, So far i have fried 2, 3k inverters, 1st one lasted 4 months and the 2nd lasted 30 days. I'm not sure if its me grounding the neutral off the inverter to the ground of the house power or its because it switched the load to house and back fed something. the 2nd time it ruined 1 24vac transformer, pooped the 20 amp circuit breaker that supplies the house power.(to the inverter) house breaker, and ruined a 20amp GFCI. That all happened when we plugged the coffee maker in and I believe the battery was weak.
Click to expand...

From what I read the Moes ATS is not safe to use with the way the relays are configured. A number of people suggest the Moes ATS fried their inverter. If you have a good electronic background it maybe possible to replace the relays as suggested and make it safe. I do not have a Moes ATS so I cannot help in that area.

My suggestion would be to purchase one of the Samlex EVO Inverter-Charger units as I describe in my previous post. They are very programable.

I have made mistakes in items I have purchased for my solar system and chalk it up to a learning experience.

I finally found the Samlex EVO-2224-Inverter-Charger and I am able to program it to function like the Moes ATS works as Will describes in his video.

When the solar battery voltage gets low (to my programmed voltage) the Samlex EVO transfers to power my loads from the grid. Once the solar battery is charged up (to my programmed voltage) by the solar panels the Samlex EVO transfers to power my loads from the Inverter using my solar battery.

Check out the link and download the manual for the Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Control. It is needed to program the Samlex EVO Inverter-Charger. Read over and study the manual carefully and you will see how to program it. It takes some time to study because it has a number of features. I have a lot of sticky notes to bookmark pages that I need because it is a very extensive and detailed manual.

www.donrowe.com

Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Control | DonRowe.com

The Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Switch provides convenient remote power control, operational status monitoring and data logging for the EVO inverter/charger series.
www.donrowe.com

Select a Samlex EVO Inverter-Charger model that works for the voltage and power needs of your system. Download the manual and read it over. It is the most detailed & extensive manual I have found for an Inverter charger. I have learned a number of things from just reading the manual.

DonRowe.com: Samlex America Inverter/Chargers

Samlex America Inverter/Chargers
www.donrowe.com

If the Samlex EVO-Inverter-Charger works for you donrowe.com has good prices to purchase the unit. I have purchased a couple of inverters from them and have had no problems. They are also known for their support.

Hope this helps...
 
Last edited:
Dynoman said:
From what I read the Moes ATS is not safe to use with the way the relays are configured. A number of people suggest the Moes ATS fried their inverter. If you have a good electronic background it maybe possible to replace the relays as suggested and make it safe. I do not have a Moes ATS so I cannot help in that area.

My suggestion would be to purchase one of the Samlex EVO-2224-Inverter-Charger units as I describe in my previous post. They are very programable.

I have made mistakes in items I have purchased for my solar system and chalk it up to a learning experience.

I finally found the Samlex EVO-2224-Inverter-Charger and I am able to program it to function like the Moes ATS works as Will describes in his video.

When the solar battery voltage gets low (to my programmed voltage) the Samlex EVO transfers to power my loads from the grid. Once the solar battery is charged up (to my programmed voltage) by the solar panels the Samlex EVO transfers to power my loads from the Inverter using my solar battery.

Check out the link and download the manual for the Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Control. It is needed to program the Samlex EVO Inverter-Charger. Read over and study the manual carefully and you will see how to program it. It takes some time to study because it has a number of features. I have a lot of sticky notes to bookmark pages that I need because it is a very extensive and detailed manual.

www.donrowe.com

Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Control | DonRowe.com

The Samlex EVO-RC-PLUS Remote Switch provides convenient remote power control, operational status monitoring and data logging for the EVO inverter/charger series.
www.donrowe.com

Select a Samlex EVO Inverter-Charger model that works for the voltage and power needs of your system. Download the manual and read it over. It is the most detailed & extensive manual I have found for an Inverter charger. I have learned a number of things from just reading the manual.

DonRowe.com: Samlex America Inverter/Chargers

Samlex America Inverter/Chargers
www.donrowe.com

If the Samlex EVO-Inverter-Charger works for you donrowe.com has good prices to purchase the unit. I have purchased a couple of inverters from them and have had no problems. They are also known for their support.

Hope this helps...
Click to expand...
Thank you for your input.
 
Dynoman said:
I found this review. Seems to tell about the issues and how to make it work if anyone is interested.

It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!

**Update**
I found a work around solution for my needs with 2 contactors and an electrical/mechanical interlock from ABB. I used "public power" to energize the contactors. I wired it in reverse essentially. I used 1 hot wire only to the output and it feeds out of the inverter or public power to their respective contactors. This is way way safer.
The problem is if you use this as intended and the relay associated with the public power fails it will back feed to your inverter and destroy it. If you dont believe me take it apart and see for yourself. The solid state electronics(which work great!) Energize two form C relays that their commons produce the "hot" wire and neutral output. Please do the same or risk a relay failure which 100% will destroy your inverter. Just read the other 1 star reviews where this has already happened.
It does work but this thing is not safe. For one there is no mechanical interlock. That is a must for two relays or contactors supplying different sources of power! It has a good chance of frying your inverter. Not if but when. It is a fire hazard for sure. The logic / solid state part of this device is great the screen and menus and ease of use. But were the actual power relays come into play is beyond sketchy. If you put inductive loads on this device it becomes a very very sketchy device. Inductive loads are very hard on contacts and often cause contacts to weld together. If this happens you have a fire hazard with this device. Trust me. I have 2 electrical degrees. Also never believe any power ratings from china! This would never pass UL listing test standards. Never!
Click to expand...
Hi Dynoman. I have the Moes ats but fear it could fry another inverter, I am interested in doing what you suggested with the contactor. Does that work in conjunction with the Moes or how does it switch power source according to battery voltage?
 
I like the simplified operation of the ATS included inside my MPP Solar all in one.
No breakers, relays, wires... It's all inside, it works flawlessly, and I can never tell by the loads when it switches. 2 computers, router, switches, NAS, DirecTv... nothing ever notices.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220615-091048.png
    Screenshot_20220615-091048.png
    160.9 KB · Views: 10
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Heeeeellllpppp. Automatic Transfer switch
Replies
2
Views
430
buck_canuck
B
P
Automatic Transfer Switch
Replies
10
Views
264
Rocketman
R
P
Automatic transfer switch?
2 3
Replies
42
Views
2K
pda1
P
A
Automatic Transfer Switch and Converter Charger
Replies
16
Views
778
Sprinterman
S
M
Adding Automatic Transfer Switch
Replies
3
Views
547
millsrj
M
Back
Top