Bad information on EVs makes my head explode
- Thread starter Will Prowse
- Start date
going_commando
Solar Enthusiast
As someone considering getting an electric vehicle once I get solar set up, from an economic point of view and not environmental, I wanted to add something to consider. The massive push for "green initiatives" and energy efficiency is pushing for products made predominantly in China, SE Asia, and India. Heat pump components are all made in Asia, electric car components are predominantly made in China, steel products are predominantly from India. We shut down industrial processes in this country due to environmental concerns, and then import the same stuff from overseas. All we are really doing in the grand plan of the Western world to reduce emissions is moving them to other parts of the world. This does absolutely nothing to reduce pollution. How many decades has it been since a US city has had smog to the levels that Chinese cities do now? 1920? That doesn't sound like progress to me from an environmental front.
I don't hate electric vehicles. The govt sponsored push for them and massive subsidies has bothered me quite a bit, and the largest non Tesla charging network (electrify America) was created as part of a mandate from the EPA from VW cheating on diesel emissions testing. All of that bothers the hell out of me. By the same token, they do have positives, and I am an electrician, so I'm not against the technology.
I don't hate electric vehicles. The govt sponsored push for them and massive subsidies has bothered me quite a bit, and the largest non Tesla charging network (electrify America) was created as part of a mandate from the EPA from VW cheating on diesel emissions testing. All of that bothers the hell out of me. By the same token, they do have positives, and I am an electrician, so I'm not against the technology.
teal95
Solar Wizard
Which results in Asia producing more pollution than we did to make the products (back when we made things in the US) and then add the pollution transporting it here.
TommySr
Solar Addict
going_commando, that's one way to read it.
me I see it as a process.
their are them that would call it one world government, or globalization but to me it's a process
that has steps.
1) rip up/suck up your natural resources, use that wealth to create the infrastructure and a working economy(standard of living)
2) is forced on you, because of the environmental damage of step 1 ----> move to step 3
3a) move to a sustainable sustainable niche market (1800's england moved to finance which fit it's colonization model )
3b) America got to step 2 in 1970's then moved to health care systems( I seen the start of it in the late 1980's with the MRI machines at GE)
the duration of each step is a function of the population density, and type of natural resources available.
both china and india are going to move swiftly because of their population density
each country that starts that process will follow them steps
our hope is the world can survive it, but it gets better each day, so there is hope.
1800's england (step 2)
1970's America (step 2)
you should see a pattern.
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TommySr
Solar Addict
england's skyline today (step 3)
chicago skyline today (step 3)
I see the pattern
chicago skyline today (step 3)
I see the pattern
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Both are being over run with illegal invasion for replacement. They are turning into shit holes. Actually Chicago has always been a shithole regardless of your cleaned up picture. Soon they will be broke and civil war torn.
Back to 3rd world levels. Happens real quick when the endless money stops being poured into it.
Your picture is friggin bs.
TommySr
Solar Addict
D71, if it's cleaned up image, it matches what I seen last week there in chicago
and because I was here in the 60's & 70's that older image was correct also.
the steel mills on the bottom of lake michigan let you know when you reached gray IN
by smell alone.
D71, I've only worked there, I'm not in the know about your above line, Bob should know.
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Diesel gate was staged. They had to kill diesel power as that gives too much independence to the proles.
I have a Q5 TDI from that era (that i plan to keep forever)....
A potent V6 diesel that gets 40 MPG fully loaded with a fully loaded roof box on the highway and 28-30 MPG from city driving. Amazing car. They just could not have these great vehicles in people's hands.
Before that Audi was testing a Hybrid-Diesel Q7 that was getting 107MPG combined (V6 Diesel+Electric Motor). The project was canned.
Modern diesels really ARE clean, especially The consumer car ones that use SCR (AdBlue) injection. Ofcourse the govt goons set the impossible bar that made the companies work around it (To give people what they actually want), and then they used that to basically can consumer Diesel cars in the US (In preparation to push the unsustainable EV junk).
At least Toyota did not fell for that, and look what happened to their CEO...
Tommy ...... MAGA country scares the shit out of them....so so would fake racial attack...... there is not a bluer Democrat place in the country. Had family there in 1960-1970 era I stayed a summer one time. It was dangerous back then too. Family moved away in mid late 1970
That very picture of Chicago is used at least 200-250 in propganda according to some websites.
Your propaganda pictures are not accurate representation of that democrat city called Chicago. Crime is and Chicago are almost same word. In foreign cou tries while in military ppl often asked if I was a criminal from chicago. World reputation back then was chicago crime. They blame guns but the real problem is ppl ... gang violence - criminals.
Real Story Back then they had open factory coal smoke= exhaust stacks that did not have scrubbers. Not so much cars for pollution.
That very picture of Chicago is used at least 200-250 in propganda according to some websites.
Your propaganda pictures are not accurate representation of that democrat city called Chicago. Crime is and Chicago are almost same word. In foreign cou tries while in military ppl often asked if I was a criminal from chicago. World reputation back then was chicago crime. They blame guns but the real problem is ppl ... gang violence - criminals.
Real Story Back then they had open factory coal smoke= exhaust stacks that did not have scrubbers. Not so much cars for pollution.
TommySr
Solar Addict
D71, all of my views of chicago are aerial to some degree(I can do 90mph on Hwy 90 through chicago which is flying to me)
and the tops of the business in elk grove tell me I'm home when returning on work trips to O'Hare.
elk grove this the largest industrial park in north america
some all the issues your seeing I don't get from my aerial perspective
I know..... picture can say 1000 words and it can be used by liars with propaganda. The polution in chicago is still high...ppl. crime.
Last time was in chicago there were groups of catalytic converter bandits staking out parking lots. Stealing clean air solutions for junk yard profit. They usually have to wait a while because the automotive catalytic converters get real hot so takes bit to cool off.
Again. Lot of old factory exhaust dumped coal smoke straight into the air before scrubbers made acid rain. Ruined paint jobs on cars along withother things. Blaming ice cars is not 100%.
China is also pouring tons pollution into air with those big cargo container ships.
teal95
Solar Wizard
Dieselgate was real. Acid rain was mainly caused by NOx. Diesel without after treatment makes NOx by the ton.
Thats not the point. The point was that modern Diesel cars generate a very small amount of NOX, compared to other cars and when taken into the account their overall efficiency. (in other words Diesel efficiency compensated the overall NOX levels).
The problem was that govt set the NOX emissions level to something that was unattainable. The goal was to kill off diesel tech, priming for the whole EV "revolution".
The problem with "EV Revolution" is that its overall efficiency and overall pollution is orders of magnitude higher than Diesel cars.
You have to research the entire picture of both of these techs, something few people do, and those who do, are silenced in mass media
Before retired the newest diesel locomotives were doing tier 4 for emissions ....we removed 1000s of trucks by using rail transport. Go out on hwy now the big trucks are everywhere again. RailRoads started acting like monopoly pirates so out came the. Diesel trucks again.
Those big container ships from china were last read dumping straight into air. They are massive polluters. I posted about it once think in svetz's post. Regardless the big cargo ships are massive pollution dumpers. I was shocked. That amount of Allowed pollution was crazy high for shipping.
Post in thread 'Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...ith-a-battery-break-through.25299/post-758961
Aircraft are huge polluters. Ev does not work well for aicraft vs fuel that gets expended as weight-pollution. EV are carrying dead weight as batteries run down for airplanes and Tommy was making pollution by flying commercial.
Most ppl will be worrying about a place to live and food -water in future if we crash our society on current course with democrats at the controls. May not be able save it now anyway.
teal95
Solar Wizard
No. Without after treatment NOx emissions from diesels is huge. I'm pretty sure at the time of dieselgate what was allowed for NOx emissions (in grams/mile) was still higher than what was allowed for a gas engine.
I'm an emission engine calibrator for an automaker with experience in diesel and gas engines. (Who's now been shoved into BEVs.)
My understanding is that there are currently no emissions requirements on ships (or aircraft). A few places (harbors in CA) have started making noises about having emissions regs for ships to enter their harbor but I don't think anything has been done.
I'm an emission engine calibrator for an automaker with experience in diesel and gas engines. (Who's now been shoved into BEVs.)
My understanding is that there are currently no emissions requirements on ships (or aircraft). A few places (harbors in CA) have started making noises about having emissions regs for ships to enter their harbor but I don't think anything has been done.
Modern consumer diesel cars all have SCR. This is treated exhaust. Over lifetime of a car, with efficiency it showed equal or less total NOX.
teal95
Solar Wizard
But the dieselgate cars were effectively disabling the after treatment. They were caught using a PEMS (Portable Emissions Measurement System, which was pretty cutting edge at the time) when their NOx emissions went ballistic.
We now have to run some specific tests with a PEMS on the car, but only do it on at our proving grounds. Basically it's a box that mounts on the trailer hitch that has the tailpipe run through it.
We now have to run some specific tests with a PEMS on the car, but only do it on at our proving grounds. Basically it's a box that mounts on the trailer hitch that has the tailpipe run through it.
My TDI was "serviced" to make it "compliant" (Which was mostly govt taking money from VW to allow people to operate their cars post scandal.
The SCR intake increased very slightly.
I dont buy that all dieselgate cars disabled SCR intake. That is baloney. If this was true, then SCR level would stay near flat but that was not the case, not even close.
(Which were basically just VW/Audi TDI's of which overall there were very few to make ANY impact on NOX. A goddamn gasoline mower produces more NOX than a unmodified VW TDI). That is baloney. If this was true, then SCR level would stay near flat but that was not the case, not even close.
The SCR intake increased very slightly.
I dont buy that all dieselgate cars disabled SCR intake. That is baloney. If this was true, then SCR level would stay near flat but that was not the case, not even close.
(Which were basically just VW/Audi TDI's of which overall there were very few to make ANY impact on NOX. A goddamn gasoline mower produces more NOX than a unmodified VW TDI). That is baloney. If this was true, then SCR level would stay near flat but that was not the case, not even close.
RussNM
Solar Wizard
DPC
Canada, Great already
Ya I did not take that into consideration, US gallon is not a standard Gallon is based on a????
Ill have to look that up one day.
But its your own gallon.
A thing happened during the great war.
It was found a Canadian .303 bullet and an American or British .303 bullet were based on over so slight different standards.
A Canadian bullet was just off the mark enough to damage rifling in US Springfield, worked great in a shot out British Enfield that was no longer serviceable accurate on British amo.
I hunted a WW1 Enfield.
It was my grandfathers.
I remember it was shot out but worked fine on CIL Canadian amo.
I had mK4 Long branch from 1944 and it was considerably more accurate.
Bush is so thick you never got a bead on anything over 100 yards up here anyways so if you cant hit at that range you shouldn't blame the rifle.
Imperial ( standard gallon 4.5 litre. US gallon 3.8 )
Now I am thinking back a Canadian gallon 160 ounces US is 128???
6 US gallon is 5 Canadian so 500ml of oil mixed in 5 gallons is 50:1 .....
How I forget that?
teal95
Solar Wizard
IIRC a US gallon is 4 quarts of 32 oz. A British gallon is 4 quarts of 40 oz. A Canadian gallon is 5 quarts of 32 oz (so same as a British "imperial" gallon).
If the carbon cost of transforming the entire energy source infrastructure for individual transportation in the civilized world from petroleum to electric was "moot", why are they omitting it from carbon calculation comparisons?
You of all people have to admit that such a lack of data in an analysis makes any kind of comparison just faith based and not scientific.
We arent talking about just "building a few charging stations". Again, "transforming the entire energy source infrastructure for individual transportation in the civilized world from petroleum to electric".
This is a massive undertaking. The petroleum infrastructure is in place. The "climate energency" doesnt have this luxury.
(If anyone needs proof that this is all no trivial matter, the govt promised hundreds of thousands of charging stations would be installed soon- ultimately, millions. Hows that coming, other than a weak token effort? Its because the cost is astronomical, and with the financial cost comes carbon cost)
You might be missing the obvious reality here.
The intent is not to get everyone out of gasoline cars and into electric.
Its to make owning personal vehicles so costly and inconvenient, only the wealthy can own them. Everyone else rides the fucking bus. Thats long been the dream of progressives, and you may not be seeing this in Nevada because theres space there. Come to San Diego for a weekend to cool off. Its in full force in neighborhoods like North Park, Hillcrest, Bankers Hill, etc. Massive apartment buildings going up now with zero requirements for on site parking... While at the same time eliminating hundreds of on street parking spots for bike lanes nobody wants or uses. People are lucky to find a parking spot within 4 blocks of their building before 6 pm.
This is not an accident.
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It is, its been backed by OPEC oil since 1973, although the Biden administration has been hard at work trying to undo this. Its why we went to war with Saddam in 2003. U
Had we not, and Blix declared Iraq was WMD free, sanctions would have ended and the last high pressure light sweet crude oilfields on the planet would have been subjected to the combined drilling assets of Russia, France and China and placed on the world markets and traded exclusively in Euros. These contracts were well documented.
The effect on our economy and the dollar would make the great depression look like a may day parade. The next time any of you sees an Iraq war veteran, forget that "mistake" bullshit youve been told and tell him their sacrifice was vital to preserving our way of life in America. Closure and being told youre a hero go a long way to curing PTSD.
This all explains why Jacques Chirac was the most pissed of all. Nobody stood to gain more from a Euro boom, than France.
(Never mind that we found proof of bribery from Saddam straight to the offices of Chirac and Vladimir Putin- and Saddam had $14 BILLION, not million, skimmed from oil for food stashed in a Paris bank)
This also reveals how stupid Democrats are when they criticized Jared Kushner for developing a close friendship with the Saudi Prince. They shouldnt be in charge of anything.
Worst ending of any movie in history.
Ive read about insane river pollution in the very late 19th century in Cleveland... Pittsburg, etc. workers falling into the river for a few minutes were not expected to survive. They regularly caught fire and burned for hours, maybe days. City officials took it as a source of city pride, that their industry was healthy.
This goes on to modern times. One of the countrys most toxic waste dumps lies just 15 feet below the asphalt next to San Diegos Mission Bay. They let children swim in it and stopped monitoring certain chemicals when levels went off the charts.
The city tried to sell the land to Ramada for a hotel but they found out and ran. So they decided to build a boat launch ramp instead, two workers were sent with a bulldozer, one of them collapsed and died on the spot and the city paid his widow $25k to shut up and leave town. There are NO warning signs in that parking lot now revealing the millions of gallons of deadly chemical soup stewing below.
Toxic waste dumped in Mission Bay 1952-59
www.sandiegoreader.com
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