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bad victron smartsolar 100/50 firmware update?

Cosmini

Cosmini

New Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
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55
hi folks,
A few years ago, I had a nice solar system comprised of a few Ricksolar panels, a Victron SmartSolar 100/50 with a Novopal 2000W inverter that was working beautifully for a few month, but it's been since, put in storage.
I've resurected the setup and it appears that the Victron SmartSolar has found two updates, an I updated to the latest one 1.64. It now appears that the SmartSolar is spiking voltage up to 15.2 V at times, to the inverter, and it makes it start intermittent beeping with an "error" and frequency 0, at times, at the DC In into the inverter reads back to 0, etc.

I'm having a feeling that the SmartSolar firmware updates are not behaving properly, as, when I disconnect from it, the inverter works beautifully, with no error.
Has anyone encountered firmware update issues with the SmartSolar Victron Charge Controllers?

thank you kindly,
Cos
 
Cosmini said:
hi folks,
A few years ago, I had a nice solar system comprised of a few Ricksolar panels, a Victron SmartSolar 100/50 with a Novopal 2000W inverter that was working beautifully for a few month, but it's been since, put in storage.
I've resurected the setup and it appears that the Victron SmartSolar has found two updates, an I updated to the latest one 1.64. It now appears that the SmartSolar is spiking voltage up to 15.2 V at times, to the inverter, and it makes it start intermittent beeping with an "error" and frequency 0, at times, at the DC In into the inverter reads back to 0, etc.

I'm having a feeling that the SmartSolar firmware updates are not behaving properly, as, when I disconnect from it, the inverter works beautifully, with no error.
Has anyone encountered firmware update issues with the SmartSolar Victron Charge Controllers?

thank you kindly,
Cos
Click to expand...

What you describe is VERY common with LFP batteries with imbalanced cells. LFP batteries in long term storage will always become imbalanced.

If you have a LFP battery, the LFP battery is likely engaging charge protection due to cell imbalance. The battery literally cuts itself out of the circuit like you removed the wires. The MPPT has nowhere to put the output for a brief moment before it can shut itself down, and the voltage spikes.

You can look at your trends tab displaying battery current and battery volts to see what's happening. Logs up to 46 days. Recommend you do his and post here.

Recommend you reduce absorption to 13.8V with a 4 hour fixed absorption time and set float to 13.6V. This will be more than enough to get the battery fully charged, and it should allow more time at elevated voltage for the BMS to balance the cells. It should also eliminate/reduce the voltage spikes.
 
thanks bunches for the great feedback, @sunshine_eggo.

I indeed have two 12V 300Ah Chins LiFePO4 batteries w/ 200A BMS.
Indeed, I have not used the batteries for a couple years, but I had left them fully charged, and they had been so, apparently, until now. (they were kept at room temperature, approx 78 degrees). I tried to make sure they are fully charged before putting them in the system. (maybe wrong idea!?)
Here's the trend log, as a screenshot, mentioning what you surmised.

Weird, this only seems to happen with the 100-50 SmartSolar controller that I upgraded the firmware from 1.59 to 1.64, but it does not happen with the 100-30 SmartSolar (backup) controller that has the older, 1.59 firmware. (should I also attempt to downgrade the 1.59 firmware?)

Lastly, is there anything I should do to the batteries to prime them? (maybe run a manual equalization or perhaps run them down to a certain percentage? (I've just started putting them in parallel, today, so the charge will last overnight for the devices I am supplying, while no sunlight -- is this a bad idea??).

ok, changed the Expert Settings per your guidance. Here are my current settings, in case some stand out. I have set the max charge current to 50A (because I just put the batteries in parallel -- after the current debacle w/ the imbalanced cells, when I only had one battery). Any additional tweaks are much appreciated.

many thanks again, for the kind feedback,
Cos
 

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sunshine_eggo said:
This is not a firmware issue. This is a battery imbalance issue.

What does the other one look like at exactly the same time?

Settings are good, except disable tail current as that will prematurely terminate absorption.

Light cycling is also helpful - maybe run them down to 90-95% SoC.
Click to expand...

got it, thanks bunches -- much appreciated.

""What does the other one look like at exactly the same time?" -- sorry, a tad confused, are you saying what is the second battery (that's in parallel) saying -- if that's the case I don't think Victron detects two batteries hooked like that -- or that I should test the second battery, independently (but this is also fairly difficult bec my load had varried). (These two batteries I got them a few months apart, in 2021, thought they were good originally, but I only tested them for a few months but never ran them down)

I will def run down the batteries, as suggested, and hopefully having them now hooked in parallel should mitigate this battery imbalance issue, at least for the output, the load appliances (fridges) that I don't like to be up-down like a yo-yo. thx also for the tail current disable tip.

many thanks again, @sunshine_eggo --
Cos
 
Cosmini said:
got it, thanks bunches -- much appreciated.

""What does the other one look like at exactly the same time?" -- sorry, a tad confused, are you saying what is the second battery (that's in parallel) saying -- if that's the case I don't think Victron detects two batteries hooked like that -- or that I should test the second battery, independently (but this is also fairly difficult bec my load had varried). (These two batteries I got them a few months apart, in 2021, thought they were good originally, but I only tested them for a few months but never ran them down)
Click to expand...

The other MPPT. You said it doesn't do this. What does its trends show at the time of the other's spike?

Cosmini said:
I will def run down the batteries, as suggested, and hopefully having them now hooked in parallel should mitigate this battery imbalance issue, at least for the output, the load appliances (fridges) that I don't like to be up-down like a yo-yo. thx also for the tail current disable tip.

many thanks again, @sunshine_eggo --
Cos
Click to expand...

Guy did make a good point on Community. Since this has been recently taken out of mothball, double checking the DC connections is a very good idea. It won't fix it until the cells get balanced, but it's always a good idea (see line #2 in my sig).
 
oh, sorry, I swapped the MPPTs, one for the other. I do not run them both at the same time or with the same loads (various fridges). The final setup that I had, and resurrected a few days ago, was with the 100-50 charge controller, that I subsequently upgraded the firmware and mistakenly thought that might be the cause, because, when troubleshooting the problem & swapped in the 100-30 charge controller (that I did not upgrade the firmware), all went without a hiccup -- my bad assumption.
I don't think there were any eventful trends with the 100-30 controller, but it may be that I did not pass that specific point.

ok, will pay closer attention to things in the next couple days and run down the batteries, hope things get more stable.
many thanks again,
Cos

P.S. Love the sig pointers!!! -- will review these also.
 
Last edited:
hi @sunshine_eggo - everything works great now, no more intermittent beeps or problems and batteries discharging properly, after I've put them in parallel and also tweaked the SmartSolar MPPT settings as you mentioned -- so thanks a big bunch!!!

Now, I'm pushing my luck and wanted to pick your brain on something else, loading up the 2000W-4000W Novopal inverter:

All initial tests were against a load of two fridges (total max peak draw of 400W for both, average about 150W at relative idle) for fridge A and fridge B.

so I started adding a small freezer (C) and with a total draw between the 3 appliances at around 500-550W tops, which easily is handled by the inverter (with an overall load of 15-25% tops).

Now, when I tried to add another larger freezer (D) at night, so no solar involved here -- a total of 4 appliances, the inverter starts continuously beeping, after some 5-8 mins.
So I disconnected A, B, C and left as a load, just the large freezer (D) -- this also makes the inverter continuously beeping after some 3-6 minutes.

I'm a bit puzzled as this (freezer D) is a fairly new GE freezer, with an electrical rating of 115VA/60Hz/1.8A.... so my math assumption (115x 1.8) was that it should not draw more than 300-400W, at most, and it's giving the inverter problems even when it is the only load on.

any ideas what might be going on?
thanks kindly,
Cos
 
Last edited:
Electric motors have surge associated with startup - typically about 5X run. That still shouldn't cause a problem, but since it's the largest, it might be uncovering another issue.

Are all connections between batteries and batteries and inverter of the appropriate size and properly torqued? A 2000W inverter needs (2000W/12.8V/.85) wire capable of handling 183A, and your interconnects between batteries should be the same.

Loose connections also cause problems. Ensure everything is properly torqued. If you made any crimps, inspect them for quality.
 
yeppers, you're definitely onto something. :)
I have AWG4 wire between batteries (in parallel config) but only AWG 5 (1x16mm2) from batteries to inverter and batteries to ChargeController.
replacing these in the next few days...

Ouch, does that mean, for 183A, that I have to get AWG #2 -- that'd be some seriously thick wire, no? if my math helps.
(this is what I have, between batteries https://a.co/d/4wzvhK9 )

thanks kindly for the quick turnaround and insightful advice.
 
Last edited:
Cosmini said:
I have to get AWG #2
Click to expand...
I use 2/0 for 250 amps. Cool as a cucumber. Actually I uses 2/0 for each 6000xp. I guess that is 125 amps max for each 6000xp? Overkill for sure lol

If I were you I would get 2/0 awg for all connections.
Tho, I am not saying this is your entire problem. Surge still could be a problem even after better connections.
 
Last edited:
A possible explanation for why one solar charge controller caused a spike but not the other is that the 100/50 can charge at 50 amps while the other one can charge at only 30 amps. The lower amps results in a slower charge which may give the BMS more time to balance the cells.

To know for sure what size cable you need, use a wire gauge calculator. The distance is round trip, not one way.

Interactive Wire Size Calculator

Battery Chargers, Inverters, Solar Components, and Wiring Supplies for Boats, RVs, and Off-Grid Applications.
baymarinesupply.com baymarinesupply.com
 
wow... so many awesome responses!!! thanks bunches, everyone!!!
any recommended websites for such cables? not sure amazon is the best place :-)
 
Last edited:
HRTKD said:
A possible explanation for why one solar charge controller caused a spike but not the other is that the 100/50 can charge at 50 amps while the other one can charge at only 30 amps. The lower amps results in a slower charge which may give the BMS more time to balance the cells.

To know for sure what size cable you need, use a wire gauge calculator. The distance is round trip, not one way.

Interactive Wire Size Calculator

Battery Chargers, Inverters, Solar Components, and Wiring Supplies for Boats, RVs, and Off-Grid Applications.
baymarinesupply.com baymarinesupply.com
Click to expand...
makes total sense. Initially I had the 100/30 controller, for one battery of 300Ah, and total 800W panels.
Then I "upgraded" my setup to two batteries in parallel, and the 100/50 controller and set the charging at 50amp, omitting to factor in the cables sizing :-(

What is making things slightly worse, I think, is that the initial CHINS 12.8V 300Ah LiFePO4 battery that I had purchased back in 2021, apparently did not have a BMS onboard, unlike the second one that I purchased some 3 months later, that actually does have a BMS onboard. Not sure if this is a big deal, in the grand schema things, but I am intending to use both in parallel, and maybe later, in series, for a different setup, as it looks like higher voltage systems may be more efficient, perhaps.
 
Last edited:
ScrotpusGobbleBottom said:
really? Are you sure? That is a pretty big deal.
Click to expand...
nevermind. I read that wrong, the BMS was not mentioned in the Amazon title of the first battery purchased .... only in the detailed description, whereas the second battery purchased, the BMS was mentioned in both the title and the description, so it was easier to spot. phew.... thanks for the heads up -- all good- both batteries have BMS. ;-)
 
Ok, making progress. Changed the wires to 4 awg for batteries interconnects and 2awg between batteries and inverter, I ran the load of all 4 appliances (2 fridges, 2 freezers) for about 3 hours (first time ever, ran for so long), before the inverter started continuous beeping, so I'm assuming there was a surge between the 4 loads, sometime. Cables now, all are all, cool as a cucumber. I will record the usage to identify the spike,. Seemed the average load on the inverter was about 20%, with some infrequent spikes to 40%, for all appliances combined. All cables were bought ready, no crimping, and torque is solid. Also, no solar power involved in this test, which was done in the evening. Stay tuned for next episode. :) lol
 
Last edited:
ok, so, it appears that my Novopal 2000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter Model #LCD20US/CA12B is bad.
recording the usage experience, it appears that the inverter temperature starts at 27 deg Celsius and goes up to 41 deg Celsius, when it the alarm goes off and power is cut off. During this time, the inverter load is between 7 to 21% (up to a high of 400W and 21% load).

At the tail end, for about 10 minutes, the inverter has a load of 7% (140W pull), with NO fans on, when the sound comes on power is dropped. (inverter fans usually go on around 44-45 degrees celsius, although for this test, I had attached a very nice heatsinc to the inverter, which apparently brought the temp down to 41 degrees, which should not be a high temperature).

qq1: any other better inverters, in this class, that can be recommended?

qq2: back a few years ago I bought (at the same time with these batteries) a PowMR SPF 3000TL LVM-24P (24 V input) -- which by research now, it looks like it was not a good investment. (I have not yet opened it, but I'm tempted to give it a go) Thinking of going with maybe a EG4 growatt, akin to what Wil mentioned here:
-- although it looks like the link is broken or product no longer available. Any current recommendations? (looking for a growatt for my 4x200W panels [80-90v in series) , and 2 x 12.8V LiFePO4 batteries) -- is this comparable: https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/lv-mr/ and a decent option?

thanks kindly for any sugestions.
Cos
 
Last edited:
With the understanding that most people come to a forum when they're having problems, do check the posts on EG4. Growatt is a different search. I have neither, so I have no first hand experience with either brand.

You've already delved into the Victron landscape with the solar charge controller. Their line of inverters is quite robust, but they aren't all-in-ones like EG4 and Growatt.
 
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