Batrium shunt trip setup, help needed

[Otisd85]

Im having a very difficult time comprehending how to setup my batrium bms, if there's any gurus out there, i sure could use some direction.
I have the Batrium Watchmon Core with the expansion 3, 4x Cellmate K9's, 4x 225amp ABB SACE3 shunt trip breakers and 64x 280ah CATL lifepo4 cells. Each breaker is wired to a separate relay, 1 on the core, and the other 3 on the expansion. There are 16 cells on each k9, and 16 cells on each breaker, so it's 4 individual 48v 16s batteries that are paralleled after the breakers. I'm trying to figure out how to make the the batrium, or more specifically each k9, control each relay to control the corresponding shunt trip breaker. the toolkit software will not let me select critical fault for more than 1 relay, and I cant find anywhere that it lets me separate the 4 individual 48v batteries. If I have a faulty/runaway cell, I want the system to be able to isolate that battery and still be able to operate on the other 3, not completely shut down.

 

[jtvt]

Not sure Batrium has any setup that allows you to do that. I don't think there is any mapping for "if cell x has a fault, do y". AFAIK, it's only "if any cell 1-n has a fault, do y". You could email them. Maybe there is something in the pipeline to make that setup work.

 

[B.Rad]

I have a similar setup with the Watchmon4, but with only a single ABB shunt trip breaker to handle the charging circuit. Unfortunately there is only a single channel available for all critical faults whether too high or too low. It hasn't really been an issue, it has only ever tripped on high voltage when breaking in a new set of batteries. I was curious and did look into it and I believe the new system is the same. I allow the inverter to handle any issues with over-discharge through the the LBCO. The inverter low battery cut off hasn't failed me in the 22 years in operation. I think it is possible to buy a digital voltage display with contacts that can be set to trip at a given voltage. Not a guru but have a little experience.

 

[Zwy]

Im having a very difficult time comprehending how to setup my batrium bms, if there's any gurus out there, i sure could use some direction.
I have the Batrium Watchmon Core with the expansion 3, 4x Cellmate K9's, 4x 225amp ABB SACE3 shunt trip breakers and 64x 280ah CATL lifepo4 cells. Each breaker is wired to a separate relay, 1 on the core, and the other 3 on the expansion. There are 16 cells on each k9, and 16 cells on each breaker, so it's 4 individual 48v 16s batteries that are paralleled after the breakers. I'm trying to figure out how to make the the batrium, or more specifically each k9, control each relay to control the corresponding shunt trip breaker. the toolkit software will not let me select critical fault for more than 1 relay, and I cant find anywhere that it lets me separate the 4 individual 48v batteries. If I have a faulty/runaway cell, I want the system to be able to isolate that battery and still be able to operate on the other 3, not completely shut down.

You could have a Core on each pack. Personally, I'd opt for 2 Cores with 2 breakers if you want that capability. This way half of the bank culd continue to operate if load isn't too high.

 

[audreez]

i added a separate 5kw battery before shut trip with its own fet based bms, so if the shunt trips it doesnt "damage" sol-ark since the 5kw battery will still give it juice to continue

 

[Zwy]

i added a separate 5kw battery before shut trip with its own fet based bms, so if the shunt trips it doesnt "damage" sol-ark since the 5kw battery will still give it juice to continue

Are you doing this to protect the SCC in the unit if PV is still producing?

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

This came up on another thread recently. I have Watchmon 4 + expansion and as stated above the "Critical Fault" option can only be assigned once. There are other options that perhaps could be stretched to a 2nd relay such as "Critical BattOK" but as stated above the intent is for overall battery bank shunt-tripping.

And that's my implementation. I have 6 x 48v@260ah batteries in parallel but each pack(cell) has it's own longmon. They are routed to a battery bank wide ABB SACE 400a shunt-trip. If there's a problem with any cell, the whole battery bank goes offline until it's resolved. This seems natural to me because I would not want 1 battery out of 6 being 'offline' without immediately addressing it because a battery 'out of spec' is likely due to a catastrophic event rather than something that can be ignored / does not affect the others. But I can understand alternate thinking ... after all its DIY (no 1 right answer)

Here are the options that Batrium allows on the expansion relays....

 

[jtvt]

And that's my implementation. I have 6 x 48v@260ah batteries in parallel but each pack(cell) has it's own longmon. They are routed to an ABB SACE 400a shunt-trip. If there's a problem with any cell, the whole battery bank goes offline until it's resolved. To me - this makes sense because I would not want 1 battery out of 6 being 'offline' without immediately addressing it because a battery 'out of spec' is likely due to a catastrophic event rather than something that can be ignored.

This is what I do. My inverter/charge-controller charge and discharge cutoffs are inside the critical fault lower and upper specs. A fault means a cell had a very low/high reading, there is a heating/cooling problem, or the Batrium had a problem. If that happens, I have to visit the battery anyway. Heating/cooling would impact all strings. A low/high reading on a cell could be a connection problem. If I only disconnect the bad string then that string is out of sync with all the other strings. So even if, the fault is easily fixable, disconnecting a single string means it's out of sync with the other strings and now I have a big process of sycning it with the other strings before I can add it back into the battery bank. So far, I've only had a disconnect on a bad blockmon.

 

[audreez]

Are you doing this to protect the SCC in the unit if PV is still producing?

yes, at least solark says that killing battery juice in powered on state can damage the inverter

 

[audreez]

thats my setup if interested, ill add another 280ah 16s box soon (dont look at the solar panel input cable that's temporary permanent there...)

 

[audreez]

This came up on another thread recently. I have Watchmon 4 + expansion and as stated above the "Critical Fault" option can only be assigned once. There are other options that perhaps could be stretched to a 2nd relay such as "Critical BattOK" but as stated above the intent is for overall battery bank shunt-tripping.

And that's my implementation. I have 6 x 48v@260ah batteries in parallel but each pack(cell) has it's own longmon. They are routed to a battery bank wide ABB SACE 400a shunt-trip. If there's a problem with any cell, the whole battery bank goes offline until it's resolved. This seems natural to me because I would not want 1 battery out of 6 being 'offline' without immediately addressing it because a battery 'out of spec' is likely due to a catastrophic event rather than something that can be ignored / does not affect the others. But I can understand alternate thinking ... after all its DIY (no 1 right answer)

Here are the options that Batrium allows on the expansion relays....

View attachment 79086

here

 

[Otisd85]

With voltage curves being so flat on prismatic lifepo4 cells, if one group is off line for a while and there's even a 20-40% difference in capacity, as long as it's only a few tenths of a volt, would it be that big of a deal to reconnect it to the rest of the packs? Wouldn't the rest of the cells get full and the lower ones continue to charge until they're balanced with the other packs? Again, as long as they're within a few tenths of a volt, obviously it wouldn't be okay if they're several volts apart.

 

[Helpme]

thats my setup if interested, ill add another 280ah 16s box soon (dont look at the solar panel input cable that's temporary permanent there...)

So your 5ah battery runs to the smaller block between the Solark and the shunt trip, but does this smaller battery have its own built in BMS? And or how does the Solark not run into problems with the charging of the smaller battery?

 

[Zwy]

So your 5ah battery runs to the smaller block between the Solark and the shunt trip, but does this smaller battery have its own built in BMS? And or how does the Solark not run into problems with the charging of the smaller battery?

Batrium shunt trip setup, help needed

Im having a very difficult time comprehending how to setup my batrium bms, if there's any gurus out there, i sure could use some direction. I have the Batrium Watchmon Core with the expansion 3, 4x Cellmate K9's, 4x 225amp ABB SACE3 shunt trip breakers and 64x 280ah CATL lifepo4 cells. Each...

diysolarforum.com

 

[audreez]

yes it connects to a busbar above the ABB and its a 5kwh (105a) battery and yes it has its own bms, there is no issue charging as solark doesnt care, smaller battery charges at a different rate than big batteries because big batteries have less resistance than the smaller one and take in more Ah, its not 1:1 charhing but its less than 10%soc difference, then i add the 100ah to the total of batriums and shunt soc is accurate for the whole pack

 

[Helpme]

So is that an AC breaker? 400 amp 600 V

 

[audreez]

Abb is AC and DC rated