diy solar

diy solar

Battery bank : lead acid

Thanks; I appreciate the your response and the additional resources you have provided. I really need to invest $1500 to add at least 600 watts to my 300 watt.

Don't spend $1500 to add 600W, and don't spend $600 to add 600W.
Your $600 could buy 2400W of panels. Or fewer panels, and some supporting electronics.


There is a cost to ship a pallet by freight, but you can save some picking it up at he freight terminal (assuming you can carry the large pallets.)
Say shipping is $200. You can pay $400 for 800 to 1600W (or more if you buy the cheapest) and come out ahead.
Or, check eBay & Craigslist for a local vendor of used/surplus panels so no shipping cost.
 
Skurch!!! ( complete stop)
Lol, I am interested in picking up a pallet of panels. I am just now trying to get above the learning curve so I am able to evaluate a good solor panel from a bad solar panel.
Plug: I am waiting for the book I ordered:
"
William Errol Prowse IV

Mobile Solar Power Made Easy!: Mobile 12 volt off grid solar system design and installation. RV's, Vans, Cars and boats! Do-it-yourself step by step instructions.​

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  1. Mobile Solar Power Made Easy!: Mobile 12 volt off grid solar system design and installation. RV's, Vans, Cars and boats! Do-it-yourself step by step instructions.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1...7119&linkId=244263352a72e826a2894cc6e28c1fb9#
Thanks and any additional feedback would be extremely appreciated.
 
Although this is just barely in the scope of this post and it far exceeds the scope of the evaluation on a pallet of solor panels I submit a question concerning future technologies of solar and light absorption.
Have you ever shined a flashlight across a pitch black campground and seen little red eyes of a cat, racoon ; or, God forbid a hungry bear staring back at you?
Now, for a moth ( that nocturnal insect ) not so much ;because, the construction of little uneven pyramids in their irises absorb all the light and if you add in their insane attraction to that light bulb it should might make you wonder what other properties of light are attacking it ;and, what if material could be developed to have a panel that absorbs 100% of the light without reflection.
 
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Absorbing all light isn't the problem. There are materials that absorb wide range of wavelengths. That produces heat. Solar-thermal panels are pretty efficient.

With PV, electrons need to be knocked out of their shell and across a diode junction. Any photon with less energy than is required to knock out the electron (e.g. IR) passes right through silicon. Silicon is transparent to IR, and I have an IR microscope that can look through silicon chip from the back side, see the circuit on the front.

Photons with more energy knock out the electron and produce PV current. Any excessive energy beyond what was needed to knock out the electron gets wasted as heat. So a silicon photo cells is most efficient close to a single wavelength. Today, you can buy PV panels of single-crystal or poly-crystaline cells that convert about 20% of the 1000 W/m^ sunshine to electricity.

There are more efficient panels. By layering thin films of different materials, they first capture higher energy photons, and let lower energy photons pass through to the next layer. Thin layers don't capture all the photons of right energy due to probability of interaction. A few micron thick layer misses some photons. A 10 mil thick wafer catches most. And, price of thin-film processing makes these panels more expensive per watt.

Today, silicon single-crystal and poly-crystaline panels are in the sweet spot of price-performance. Lower cost technologies take up more area, which costs materials and labor. Higher efficiency technologies cost more per watt, are useful for applications that have to be launched by rocket.

Best deal today is slightly used high quality panels. You can pay $0.12 to $0.50/watt from vendors like SanTan Solar. Cost of PV panels may be just 25% of what you spend on a grid-tie system, less of a battery-backup system.

Quality of panels is key, because some brands/models have failed. Here's a link; you can register and download free reports for a number of years. Try to buy brands rated has high performing in accelerated stress tests.

 
Matt@ surplussolar.com
400 watt panels $.48$ / watt
Monocrystline.

I have a flat roof and an ideal SSW facing exterior roof ideal for 100 watt panels. These monsters would have to lay on the flat roof I imagine. I just didn't want to compromise the roof yet. Are their any drawbacks from using 400 watt panels?
 
Finally, what am I missing here if I am expecting to achieve 6,7 or 8 or the calculation ov 11.67 hours out of a mere 2 volts of available potential difference of my battery bank.
Pay close attention to the units (V, A, Ah, W, Wh) in my description below.

It isn't volts to worry about, it is Wh. (Watt Hours) Volts alone will not tell anything about how much available power is in the battery.
A watt is volts x amps. A watt hour is watts x hours. A 300 watt panel delivers 300W. If it delivers 300 watts for 2 hours, that is 600Wh. Note that the unit (Wh) follows the math used to derive it. (watts x hours) Batteries are usually rated in Amp hours. Since a watt is volts x amps, to convert Ah to Wh you need to multiply Ah by the volts. So, a 12V battery that is 80Ah is 960Wh. From that, you can estimate how long it will take a 300W panel to charge it, over 3 hours, if there is full sun and the panel is producing 300 watts.

Then you can work the other way for how long the battery will last. If your refrigerator uses 5 amps at 12 V, then you can divide 80Ah by 5A, and get 16 hours.

There are other considerations concerning efficiency and how much capacity in a battery is really usable, but that should cover the math and help you understand the terminology at least.
 
I am hoping to come up on like 1600 watts polycrystaln; however, i might have a delay on purchasing a controller and I understand that the output of the controller needs to accommodate my 1400AH 6 volt VMAX lead acid 2s4p plus 3@ marine deep cell 12 volts daisy chained in. What is a price range of a typical controller?
Pointedly, if the panels are installed and absorbing electrons without being absorbed into storage does this hert the panel? Where does the DC current go? Will it need some sort of load?
 
Pay close attention to the units (V, A, Ah, W, Wh) in my description below.

It isn't volts to worry about, it is Wh. (Watt Hours) Volts alone will not tell anything about how much available power is in the battery.
A watt is volts x amps. A watt hour is watts x hours. A 300 watt panel delivers 300W. If it delivers 300 watts for 2 hours, that is 600Wh. Note that the unit (Wh) follows the math used to derive it. (watts x hours) Batteries are usually rated in Amp hours. Since a watt is volts x amps, to convert Ah to Wh you need to multiply Ah by the volts. So, a 12V battery that is 80Ah is 960Wh. From that, you can estimate how long it will take a 300W panel to charge it, over 3 hours, if there is full sun and the panel is producing 300 watts.

Then you can work the other way for how long the battery will last. If your refrigerator uses 5 amps at 12 V, then you can divide 80Ah by 5A, and get 16 hours.

There are other considerations concerning efficiency and how much capacity in a battery is really usable, but that should cover the math and help you understand the terminology at least.
So, my 12v 1400ah and my 300 watts panel array : 4.6 estimated time to recharge?
And with harbor freight that is a wet dream ?
 
So, my 12v 1400ah and my 300 watts panel array : 4.6 estimated time to recharge?
And with harbor freight that is a wet dream ?

You need to divide battery watt-hour capacity by PV array wattage. (not amp hour capacity divide by array wattage.)

12V x 1400 Ah = 16,800 Wh
16,800 Wh / 300W = 56 hours to recharge.
But that 16,800 Wh of lead-acid battery weights about 800 lbs.

Do you have 1400 Wh of battery?
1400 Wh / 12V = 117 Ah.
That could be one or two batteries.
1400 Wh / 300 W = 4.67 hours.

"I have a 1,400 ah vmax 6 v parallel/ series 12 v bank that I understand this translates to a roughly 700 ah."
If you have 1400 Ah of 6V batteries, and wire then in a 12V bank, then you have 700 Ah at 12V.
700 Ah x 12V = 8400 Wh
8400 Wh / 300 W = 28 hours to recharge.

What type of battery? If FLA, it may want 0.12C charge rate to properly mix the electrolyte.
8400 Wh x 0.12 = 1008W desired PV array

If AGM, it should be OK even with slow charge rate.

If this is a lead-acid battery, it always needs to get fully recharged. So determine daily power consumption of your freezer, especially in the winter. Look up "insolation" (effective sun hours) for your location in winter, and make sure PV array is sufficiently sized to power the freezer, make up for inefficiency of charge controller, batteries, inverter (if applicable) with power to spare.
 
Absorbing all light isn't the problem. There are materials that absorb wide range of wavelengths. That produces heat. Solar-thermal panels are pretty efficient.

With PV, electrons need to be knocked out of their shell and across a diode junction. Any photon with less energy than is required to knock out the electron (e.g. IR) passes right through silicon. Silicon is transparent to IR, and I have an IR microscope that can look through silicon chip from the back side, see the circuit on the front.

Photons with more energy knock out the electron and produce PV current. Any excessive energy beyond what was needed to knock out the electron gets wasted as heat. So a silicon photo cells is most efficient close to a single wavelength. Today, you can buy PV panels of single-crystal or poly-crystaline cells that convert about 20% of the 1000 W/m^ sunshine to electricity.

There are more efficient panels. By layering thin films of different materials, they first capture higher energy photons, and let lower energy photons pass through to the next layer. Thin layers don't capture all the photons of right energy due to probability of interaction. A few micron thick layer misses some photons. A 10 mil thick wafer catches most. And, price of thin-film processing makes these panels more expensive per watt.

Today, silicon single-crystal and poly-crystaline panels are in the sweet spot of price-performance. Lower cost technologies take up more area, which costs materials and labor. Higher efficiency technologies cost more per watt, are useful for applications that have to be launched by rocket.

Best deal today is slightly used high quality panels. You can pay $0.12 to $0.50/watt from vendors like SanTan Solar. Cost of PV panels may be just 25% of what you spend on a grid-tie system, less of a battery-backup system.

Quality of panels is key, because some brands/models have failed. Here's a link; you can register and download free reports for a number of years. Try to buy brands rated has high performing in accelerated stress tests.

Nice microscope by the way. You could probably incorporate some Biomimicry of the iris of the moth's eye and look at its effects on the loose elections and redirect and eliminate the latent heat problem.
That's an awesome set of tools ,dude.
Take care.
Ripping eyeballs out moths ; lol, not sure about that one.
 
You need to divide battery watt-hour capacity by PV array wattage. (not amp hour capacity divide by array wattage.)

12V x 1400 Ah = 16,800 Wh
16,800 Wh / 300W = 56 hours to recharge.
But that 16,800 Wh of lead-acid battery weights about 800 lbs.

Do you have 1400 Wh of battery?
1400 Wh / 12V = 117 Ah.
That could be one or two batteries.
1400 Wh / 300 W = 4.67 hours.

"I have a 1,400 ah vmax 6 v parallel/ series 12 v bank that I understand this translates to a roughly 700 ah."
If you have 1400 Ah of 6V batteries, and wire then in a 12V bank, then you have 700 Ah at 12V.
700 Ah x 12V = 8400 Wh
8400 Wh / 300 W = 28 hours to recharge.

What type of battery? If FLA, it may want 0.12C charge rate to properly mix the electrolyte.
8400 Wh x 0.12 = 1008W desired PV array

If AGM, it should be OK even with slow charge rate.

If this is a lead-acid battery, it always needs to get fully recharged. So determine daily power consumption of your freezer, especially in the winter. Look up "insolation" (effective sun hours) for your location in winter, and make sure PV array is sufficiently sized to power the freezer, make up for inefficiency of charge controller, batteries, inverter (if applicable) with power to spare.
Its every bit of 800 lbs
Vmax 6 volt 225 ah : 2s4p plus 3@ 12v marine deep cycle ( 135+- AH) each.
 
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56 hrs sounds more like it because fully charged and brand new last week and every day after sundown I begin the evening ( 0.1 ) volt less then the night before. Lol , I am grid charging now until I get my 16,000 watts ; then, the math should look better. ( hint, hint do you know where to get a pallet of 12 v 100 watt panels?)
Anyway, I devided wrong so I will have to review that.
Thanks
 
You need to divide battery watt-hour capacity by PV array wattage. (not amp hour capacity divide by array wattage.)

12V x 1400 Ah = 16,800 Wh
16,800 Wh / 300W = 56 hours to recharge.
But that 16,800 Wh of lead-acid battery weights about 800 lbs.

Do you have 1400 Wh of battery?
1400 Wh / 12V = 117 Ah.
That could be one or two batteries.
1400 Wh / 300 W = 4.67 hours.

"I have a 1,400 ah vmax 6 v parallel/ series 12 v bank that I understand this translates to a roughly 700 ah."
If you have 1400 Ah of 6V batteries, and wire then in a 12V bank, then you have 700 Ah at 12V.
700 Ah x 12V = 8400 Wh
8400 Wh / 300 W = 28 hours to recharge.

What type of battery? If FLA, it may want 0.12C charge rate to properly mix the electrolyte.
8400 Wh x 0.12 = 1008W desired PV array

If AGM, it should be OK even with slow charge rate.

If this is a lead-acid battery, it always needs to get fully recharged. So determine daily power consumption of your freezer, especially in the winter. Look up "insolation" (effective sun hours) for your location in winter, and make sure PV array is sufficiently sized to power the freezer, make up for inefficiency of charge controller, batteries, inverter (if applicable) with power to spare.
Cool math:
 
I know where to get a pallet of 4, 300W panels or 3, 400W panels. They probably weight less than 12, 100W panels. Take up less room, too.

My 120W (Astropower) panels weigh 26 lbs.
My 327W (Sunpower) panels weigh 41 lbs.

Vmax - is that AGM?
Probably best not to parallel "marine not really deep cycle" with it, they would have somewhat different voltages.
 
16,800wh
And 1400ah/ 2 usable

Well, 1400 Ah/2 = 700 Ah raw at 12v, because you put 6V batteries in series to make 12V.

Not sure how much of that is "usable", don't see DoD vs. cycle life specs. I target 70% DoD for my AGM.


"Warning: Do not use a charger with smaller amperage than the recommended Charging Current shown above.
Maintainers should ONLY be used to maintain a fully charged battery but NEVER as a charger."

Charging current 15A-55A per 225 Ah. So you're supposed to provide 60 to 220 A at about 14V to 15V for your 700 Ah, nominally 12V bank.
About 1000W of PV sounds like minimum.
 
I know where to get a pallet of 4, 300W panels or 3, 400W panels. They probably weight less than 12, 100W panels. Take up less room, too.

My 120W (Astropower) panels weigh 26 lbs.
My 327W (Sunpower) panels weigh 41 lbs.

Vmax - is that AGM?
Probably best not to parallel "marine not really deep cycle" with it, they would have somewhat different voltages.
Righton , I know the12v are nice batteries I figured whg not just use them. Maybe the can be placed in another side system if they survive.
I have to decide on the PV purchase I could see where I could get burnt if u don't research properly. Thanks though I have to deckde.
 
Well, 1400 Ah/2 = 700 Ah raw at 12v, because you put 6V batteries in series to make 12V.

Not sure how much of that is "usable", don't see DoD vs. cycle life specs. I target 70% DoD for my AGM.


"Warning: Do not use a charger with smaller amperage than the recommended Charging Current shown above.
Maintainers should ONLY be used to maintain a fully charged battery but NEVER as a charger."

Charging current 15A-55A per 225 Ah. So you're supposed to provide 60 to 220 A at about 14V to 15V for your 700 Ah, nominally 12V bank.
About 1000W of PV sounds like minimum.
I am using a charger. That is bad?
Shoemaker 8 amp charger I have 2 of these but I am using only one now.
 
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