diy solar

diy solar

Battery inverter to preheat diesel engine

T

Tellu-Bill

New Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Messages
3
I manage grooming of Nordic skiing trails for a non profit organization. We have two Pisten Bully grooming cats with Mercedes diesel engines. New for the coming season, one of the grooming cats will be staged at a trailhead with no electric service. The diesel engine has a block heater that draws 960 watts which has to run for 30 to 60 minutes before the engine can be started. Preheating is essential when overnight temperatures drop below 20 deg. Fahrenheit - which is the majority of the grooming season. The colder the engine, the longer the block heater needs to run.

Use of a battery inverter is appealing for a number of reasons. Primarily, it should be possible to set a timer to automatically start the engine heater an hour before the scheduled start of grooming each morning. The battery inverter will need to have enough capacity to also power a small battery heater (+/- 75W) to keep the LiFePo4 battery at working temperature. I've looked at the EcoFlow Delta Max and Delta Pro units as well as the Bluetti AC200 and AC300 Max units. One problem with those units is they will turn off completely if there is no current draw for a relatively short period of time. I am hoping a 120V timer will draw enough current to keep a packaged unit (like an EcoFlow or Bluetti) turned on.

Alternatively, I could build a system with separate components (battery, inverter, charge controller, etc.) that would allow more flexibility but there is an appeal to the simplicity of a package unit like the EcoFlow or Bluetti.

I am posting to this forum in the home someone else has already navigated these waters and can share some insights. I believe a 2000Wh+ battery should have sufficient capacity for the loads involved. Pisten Bully grooming cats have a 24V electrical system. An area I have not researched is whether the PB's charging system will have adequate capacity to recharge the LiFePo4 battery during a normal 3 - 6 hour grooming session each day and the best way to connect to the charging system. There is room on the roof of the grooming cat to mount +/- 250 watts of PV. but that clearly is not enough by itself.

I know many operators of diesel powered heavy equipment use gas generators to preheat diesel engines. Again, the downside to that (traditional) method is that someone has to show up an hour prior to use to start the gas generator. This seems like such a perfect application for a battery inverter I have believe I am not the first person to attempt it. Hopefully, there are some helpful folks out there willing to share their experience!
 
You would definitely need heated batteries. Check into BattleBorn. I believe they have new 12v, maybe 24v batteries with internal heater that are pretty much self managed. You just need to provide the charging requirements and the inverter along with timer when to operate.

Call them and ask them about it.
 
Tell us why you need a bock heater, are these pre 2007 MB diesels? Proper glow plugs and healthy battery should be good to go.
 
My Mercedes diesel starts at 20 deg no problem. It gets cold in Germany, they know how to handle it. Good glow plugs, proper valve adjustment, 5w-40 oil.

Failing that(skeptical), I'd look at an Espar diesel fired coolant heater before an electric block heater.
 
Are the groomers parked at random out in the snow requiring everything onboard? Or is there an alpine shed to mount solar and protect equipment?

Generally I like separate components. I would definitely aim for a 24v system to best utilize the alternator even if it did not provide all power needed.
 
Keep in mind that if you only use it for the heaters, you don't need a pure sine wave inverter.
A square (modified) wave cheapo will do just fine.
 
The trailhead has no shelter or power. We are looking for a self contained system that can be installed in the grooming machine. The machine in question is a 2010 Pisten Bulley PB-100. The engine heater utilizes a small circulation pump to heat engine coolant. The machine definitely needs the pre-heat in colder temperatures. Feedback we've seen on the Espar diesel coolant heaters for this application has not been good and they are expensive. I would love to hear from anyone having experience with maximum charge rate we might expect from the 24 volt system alternator without compromise to the machine's batteries.
 
Consider an AGM lead-acid battery. Depth of discharge can be planned based on how many cycles you want to get out of it (I use 70% DoD.)
In cold weather available amp-hours are reduced (before hitting a given voltage), but I think 70% DoD (based on nominal temperature capacity) can still be used.
Lead-acid requires temperature-adjusted charging voltage, which is normally found in alternators and some stand-alone chargers. It can be recharged from vehicle's charging system so long as alternator can handle the amps. But, regulator on alternator may be set for FLA which wouldn't be optimum for AGM.
AGM is quite resistant to freezing, but less so at greater DoD. So choose DoD considering temperatures you will encounter (and the fact you will draw it lower as battery ages and loses capacity.

A pair of these might be good:

https://sunxtender.com/solarbattery.php?id=7

As people said, sine wave is not required for a heater. But, they are cheap enough, and this could give you power for tools too.
 
Last edited:
Overnight temps are typically single digit to - 20 deg F in the months of January and February. Average lows during those months is probably around 0 F with the low typically occurring 6 - 7 am which is also the time when we need to start the machine.

Space available inside the machine is an issue.
 
Webasto/Espar/Eberspächer/Binar is the standard solution around here for pre-heating car engines. All sorts of remote kits and timers also available.

And are we talking about -20F or 20F?
at 20F I don't see the need but below -20F is a different matter.
 
Maybe a bank of N70 Ordinary FLA batteries x 6 or even identical to the one/s in the machine to make charging easier.. There seems to be plenty of room and the cycle times may not effect the life too much. Separate with a VSR sized for the 3 hours charging time or a 200amp manual battery isolator switch.
The Bluetti looks a bit like a toy in your situation and $ for $ the FLA have it over them and are less likely to walk off with a reindeer than a $2000 Bluetti.
I found a 240v timer wasn't able to keep my 1500w inverter alive so I just left my aquarium pumps running 24/7 (about 20W.) Although you will need to make sure the capacity of your batteries is able to stay above the inverters cut-off in the cold. A small separate dc sump heater on 24/7 ?
 
Last edited:
MattiFin said:
Webasto/Espar/Eberspächer/Binar is the standard solution around here for pre-heating car engines. All sorts of remote kits and timers also available.

And are we talking about -20F or 20F?
at 20F I don't see the need but below -20F is a different matter.
Click to expand...
Came here to say this.

It'll run from the fuel in the tank and make very little impact on the starter battery. No messing about.

You can get versions of these specifically designed to preheat the coolant. Much better than a block heater, far more powerful, and faster.

And consumes a ton less electricity so you don't need to mess with a whole battery system.
 
Single digits to -20F explains the need for engine preheat. +20F, I was scratching my head.

At those temps, I'd go Espar, no question. Preheat the cab, and you can add additional heat exchangers to preheat the battery and hydraulics too. Like starting on a warm summer day.

Does Pisten Bully make a cold start preheat kit? Or is the electric block heater the kit?
 
IMO Block heaters died in the 1980s (along with Oldsmobile oil burners), anything worth having is a coolant heater, be it fuel sourced or 120v sourced.

Again from my experience with a modern diesel, proper battery working glow plugs and healthy engine you should have no issues without a coolant heater. Even at -10 -20f.
 
Last edited:
I've cranked a UH-1 at minus 63.....no preheat.... Crewchief said we blew fire to the tail rotor when it was getting going... (the battery had been kept warm till we cranked though).

Maybe you should have bought a better rig dude. :)
 
If you can wait a year there's indications China is doing their thing and soon will have their own diesel powered block heater to market. Lavaner is one brand I found with a prototype. If it's anything like their diesel air heaters it'll have programmable start and stop.
PS Using an engine heater when it's really cold is wise even if a diesel engine starts without it.
 
Last edited:
circus said:
If you can wait a year there's indications China is doing their thing and soon will have their own diesel powered block heater to market. Lavaner is one brand I found with a prototype. If it's anything like their diesel air heaters it'll have programmable start and stop.
PS Using an engine heater when it's really cold is wise even if a diesel engine starts without it.
Click to expand...
They've had them for years. Cheap AF. Nice if you don't mind increased maintenance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Small Engine Alternator to Lithium
Replies
8
Views
395
DC Indy
D
G
Help to decide between diesel heating and wood burner
Replies
7
Views
558
mikefitz
mikefitz
O
Mini Diesel Genset/DC charger
Replies
19
Views
2K
Daddy Tanuki
Daddy Tanuki
D
Diesel Powered Wind Turbine
Replies
14
Views
650
Rednecktek
Rednecktek
B
Diesel Heater - False Low Voltage Error E-2
Replies
1
Views
155
OM617YOTA
O
Back
Top