Battery isolator and bms

[mjsb]

New to this forum, patience is appreciated. I am upgrading my battery system on a 31 ft sailboat. Presently have a 12v LA for engine start. Engine has a 55amp alternator with a Balmar Surge Protector installed. The house battery will be 200AH lipo4 from Ampertime, I have installed a Victron battery isolator (3 port) port 1 Lipo4 200AH, port 2 is to 12v LA, port 3 (future) 12 volt LA for boats anchor. I presently have a NOCO 3 x 15 charger that does both LA and Li, I have ordered a Victron Charger strictly for the LiPo4 ( making AC charging separate for both LA & LiPo4), there is a Victron 1200 inverter coming as well as a Victron smart shunt. I am potently thinking of installing a Victron BMS but am unsure of which model due to the Isolator I am using. Solar is in the wind as part of the 3rd phase , so Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

 

[Redwood1957]

I'm following. Does your lipo4 have a BMS system.

 

[mikefitz]

Victron BMS is intended only for Victron batteries that use an external BMS.
You Ampertime battery will have its own BMS built in.
Ideally you need a battery to battery charger to replace the 3 way isolator/splitter. I recomend the Victron Orion 12 12 30 for your system.
This will prevent overload of the alternator and give a current limited correct profile for the lithium battery.

Mike

 

[mjsb]

Victron BMS is intended only for Victron batteries that use an external BMS.
You Ampertime battery will have its own BMS built in.
Ideally you need a battery to battery charger to replace the 3 way isolator/splitter. I recomend the Victron Orion 12 12 30 for your system.
This will prevent overload of the alternator and give a current limited correct profile for the lithium battery.

Mike

Thanks Mike, after much research and sore eyeballs, I find myself ordering the Orion 12/12/30. I am probably going to Order a Balmar MC 618 regulator for my alternator. I have purchased a Victron Battery Charger for the LI battery. So any other advice is always appreciated. Thank you once again.

 

[MisterSandals]

Engine has a 55amp alternator

I find myself ordering the Orion 12/12/30.

They make an 18A model too (12/12/18) if you think the 30A is too big or expensive.

 

[Redwood1957]

Bms battery management system

 

[Odom1957]

Don't connect the Alternator to the lithium, unless you plan on letting the magic smoke out. Lol

The Balmar regulator can be made to safely connect to an alternator, so if you connect it properly, then it will prevent damage, but I would just use a dc-dc to charge the lithium.

Also, most multibank chargers can't charge two different battery chemistries simultaneously.

 

[roly1]

"Don't connect the Alternator to the lithium, unless you plan on letting the magic smoke out. Lol"

He's not, it is through an isolator by his post.
The MC618 with belt manager is a must AND heat sensor for the alternator. Giving two modes of anti-smoke.
The splitter always gives the alternator a load so diodes are safe.
And he already has the isolator. Alternator is too small to utilize the benefit of direct to House thru isolator though
as it will have to be derated to ~30A to keep its temp in tolerance and then you may as well go direct to start and DC-DC to house.
Personally, (after waiting hours listening to motor with HP to spare), I prefer higher output externally cooled alternator and fast charge direct
through Victron splitter..

 

[wholybee]

We need clarification about what balmar device you have. If you have the Balmar Alternator protection module that will prevent alternator damage from a BMS disconnect. However, it will not limit current, and without something else, charging the Lithium will smoke the alternator. It is also weird that you would have that installed with Lead-Acid Batteries.

If you have a Balmar regulator (either the ARS5, 614 or the 618) with the temperature sensor connected, that will limit current based on Alternator temperature, and is ideal. If you have a 55 Amp alternator, it is probably a stock internally regulated type, so I would not expect you to have a Balmar regulator.

Victron sells 2 types of isolators. A FET type (argoFet) and a diode type (Argodiode). You must use the Argofet type with Lithium.

So, a correct answer here depends on some more specific information about what you have and wish to install. If you have a stock alternator, and do not have the Balmar ARS5, 614, or 618, the most straightforward installation is to ditch the argo isolator and connect the alternator direct to the Lead acid battery. Then use an Orion DCDC charger to charge the house bank. If you want the "best" solution, you would get a new, better alternator, the Balmar regulator, and make sure your isolator is the FET type.

Regarding the BMS. The Victron BMS will ONLY work with Victron batteries. But also, drop in batteries like Ampertime have a BMS built in (usually a lower quality BMS) and you cannot connect any other BMS to them without physically cutting open the battery to remove the old and connect the new.

Posting drawings (even poor ones) of what you have and what you want to do would be a big help.

 

[mjsb]

Well taking in as much advise as one could this is where I am headed. The LI batteries will remain the same 200 amp Amertime, I have purchased a 70amp Balmar 6 series alternator with MC 618 regulator and assoc temp sensor, also a Victron Orion 12/12V 30 A, a Victron smart shunt and a Victron battery charger. I have not purchased an inverter. So after a lot of money and thoughts I am happy with the plan, now I just need the time to install. So thank you to all for the helpful info. Next step is to do a solar project, probably may or June.

 

[Morniga_sly]

Here are a few suggestions for how you might proceed with your project:

1. The Victron 3-port battery isolator that you have installed will allow you to separate the charging of your house battery (LiPo4) from your engine start battery (LA). This is a good first step in ensuring that you don't overcharge or discharge one battery while trying to charge the other.
2. The Victron charger that you have ordered specifically for the LiPo4 will allow you to charge your house battery at a faster rate than the NOCO charger, and it will also help to prolong the life of your LiPo4 battery by charging it at the correct voltage and amperage.
3. The Victron 1200 inverter will allow you to convert the DC power stored in your LiPo4 battery into AC power, which is necessary for running most of the appliances and electronics on your sailboat.

 

[hwse]

Thanks Mike, after much research and sore eyeballs, I find myself ordering the Orion 12/12/30. I am probably going to Order a Balmar MC 618 regulator for my alternator. I have purchased a Victron Battery Charger for the LI battery. So any other advice is always appreciated. Thank you once again.

You stated that your alternator is 55A so is it the factory alterator with a built in voltage regulator? If so you will not be able to use the MC 618 without surgical modification to the alternator. If it is an internal regulated alternator, it will not survive connecting to the LPF.

 

[hwse]

I have a simular sized boat but some significant differences.

• 560Ah DIY LFP battery
• 110Ah Group 31 AGM start battery.
• 108A alternator with external regulator which reduces the power output to limit the actual measured case temperature.
• Alternator is wired to Victron ArgoFET battery isolator which separates the start from the house except when the alternator is charging. Much better than old diode-based isolator because it doesn't cause the 0.7v drop.
• All wiring between the alternator and LFP is 2/0 gauge.
• Start battery is only charge by the alternator.
• LFP gets power from alternator and two Victron IP67 - 30A single port chargers in synchronized mode.

I currently need to limit the output of my alternator to about 70A max in order to keep the case temp lower than 95ºC. If I did not have the external temperature sensing regulator I would not attempt to charge from the alternator.

 

[roly1]

"two Victron IP67 - 30A single port chargers"
What are they. Shore charger?

I am the same 4s2p, 460Ahr balmar mc618 limiting alternator to 70A, argofet 200A
Pronautic 1250P shore charger.