Battery options for Victron Quattro, some other questions

[nickandre]

Hey all, looking at the Victron Quattro inverters. Tentative plan is 48V system in a partial home backup setup (including well pump) with 2x Quattro 48V 5 KVA units in split phase configuration with generator backup and auto-start. One of the main reasons I'm attracted to these is the ability to continuously load a generator to programmable optimal efficiency while accommodating various loads/inductive transients etc., whereas it would appear that most of the EG4 inverters (et al. that all appear to be manufactured by one company in China with that exact same manual format) don't support any sort of continuous load charging off a generator. Specifically referencing the EG4 6000EX split phase model, it doesn't support simultaneous charging and and discharging of the battery bank to maintain continuous load on a generator. The best I could do is configure a low charge rate, but for example on the 3 KVA generator at 1KVA charge load would leave me with 2 KVA for all loads including starting a well pump.

I think I pretty well understand most of this inverter but I'm a bit stuck on the battery options. A few possibilities:

1. I see Victron makes some batteries that interoperate with their BMS, but they seem to run about $0.82/watt-hour without BMS.
2. I see the new EG4 LL offers Victron CAN bus compatibility at a more palatable $0.36/watt-hour but they don't seem officially supported by Victron and there's very little documentation out there on what this entails. I do see an option for this referenced in the EG4-LL manual under CAN settings.

So first question: are there other economical battery options in line with the EG4 server rack that have compatibility with Victron?

Assuming I were to go with the EG4:

1. I believe the EG4 has internal BMS, so presumably I don't need the Victron BMS?
2. Does it include coulomb counting in a manner that's compatible with the Victron or do I need one of their shunts?
3. Is there any precise documentation on what's supported for EG4 LL with Victron?

Or do I need to buy a set and see for myself

EDIT: Update I do see a forum reference that the SOK server rack batteries support Victron communication. Still unclear on what portion of the Victron setup are handled by such communications.

I do see instructions here that claim it supports BMS and SOC info.

EDIT 2: alright I also see the Schneider XW series is an LF inverter that supports "generator support" though online suggests they've had a few hiccups/issues with their units. Allegedly many of these are fixed. Schneider seems compatible with EG4.

 

[Samsonite801]

Will the batteries be exposed to freezing temperatures, or will they be installed in a climate controlled environment?

I have seen some of the battery manufacturers shifting towards batteries with heaters in them, like a neighbor of mine bought some Trophy rack mount batteries recently which come with heating built-in. I'm not sure if they'd communicate with a Victron CAN bus, but it might be one thing to also consider while looking at batteries.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

EG4LL comms with Cerbo now

 

[Samsonite801]

EG4LL comms with Cerbo now

Do you know if EG4 is planning to add battery heaters in any of their lines? I like the EG4 batteries on paper (several of our co-op shareholders have purchased them), but it seems heating would be the next logical addition in the feature-set...

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Do you know if EG4 is planning to add battery heaters in any of their lines? I like the EG4 batteries on paper (several of our co-op shareholders have purchased them), but it seems heating would be the next logical addition in the feature-set...

that one is tough, the cost is $25 per pack, to force everyone to pay $150 per 30kwh bank is a hard deal when so many will never use it, can't we get an external option?

 

[Samsonite801]

that one is tough, the cost is $25 per pack, to force everyone to pay $150 per 30kwh bank is a hard deal when so many will never use it, can't we get an external option?

I suppose one possibility is to make it be an accessory option that could be added (if they could make the hardware support the possibility for it to be factory installed).

Like EG4-LL vs EG4-LL-H or something.

Yeah, I know it's complicated, for companies to make decisions that could cost them lots of money, under the gamble that it could actually increase sales by having the added feature.

Maybe they could take some user polls on the forums to find out what the demand would be like for such feature.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Let me see if an external option is possible, one that goes between packs in the rack

 

[nickandre]

Let me see if an external option is possible, one that goes between packs in the rack

Yeah you can use a blanket. Amazon has "reptile heating pads" that I've used for some photography chemistry temp maintenance. My plan is basement install though so probably nothing too extreme on the cold side.

 

[FarPlace]

I currently have the Quatro 5KVA with 3 EG4 (not LL) batteries. They are in the same compartment in my RV as the Inverter is (Cargo bay not heated) and when I'm pulling even a somewhat decent load (500-1000 watts ) on the inverter, it generates a little bit of heat and even when temperatures get extremely cold I'm not seeing the batteries getting below 50/40F. I am a full time RVer so the temperature of the living area is never colder than 70ﾟF. So you may want to test the temperature of your proposed battery area before sinking money into heaters.
Highly recommend the EG4 batteries! Yes they do have BMS with temp cutoff.
2022 Sabre 37FLL

 

[caki]

The latest version of the dbus-serialbattery now supports Eg4 batteries https://diysolarforum.com/threads/v...kbms-heltec-renogy-tian-ecs.17847/post-611731
so if you are running the VenusOS it is able to talk to the battery.

 

[Sundown]

Let me see if an external option is possible, one that goes between packs in the rack

@SignatureSolarJames Any options found for this idea?