Lisbonlife
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Battery Protect
- Thread starter Lisbonlife
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MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
Which of the many items pictured, are you asking about? "battery protect feature" is pretty vague.
And which one is "Will's page"?
And which one is "Will's page"?
Mr.Michael
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I assume the protect feature is the Victron module that is wired to disconnect the battery from the inverter after a certain low battery voltage (say 11V) is detected. Now the Battleborn manual says this:
Low voltage: < 10V If an individual cell falls below a prescribed threshold during discharge, the BMS will prevent further discharge. Although the battery is in “low-voltage disconnect” mode, it will still allow a charging current.
So you can use a custom setting and the Victron hardware or if you if you don't need the custom setting you likely get away without it and can use the above low voltage feature if you have a Battleborbn or similar smart battery. If you run your own 4S setup or a less sophisticated battery without a low voltage protect you need this device. Most controller do it as well but the sample setup shown in the picture also has a load (the inverter) directly on the battery. Most inverters will do basically the same and disconnect at low voltage but you bet your battery that this works as anticipated because if it is not working your battery may turn in to a paperweight. Some loads without a brain like say a water pump will not disconnect and absolutely need this feature.
Low voltage: < 10V If an individual cell falls below a prescribed threshold during discharge, the BMS will prevent further discharge. Although the battery is in “low-voltage disconnect” mode, it will still allow a charging current.
So you can use a custom setting and the Victron hardware or if you if you don't need the custom setting you likely get away without it and can use the above low voltage feature if you have a Battleborbn or similar smart battery. If you run your own 4S setup or a less sophisticated battery without a low voltage protect you need this device. Most controller do it as well but the sample setup shown in the picture also has a load (the inverter) directly on the battery. Most inverters will do basically the same and disconnect at low voltage but you bet your battery that this works as anticipated because if it is not working your battery may turn in to a paperweight. Some loads without a brain like say a water pump will not disconnect and absolutely need this feature.
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Carly
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Carly
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Victron BP100 is the battery protect and is toward the top right in the photo OP posted (with an arrow and statement not to use). It's from this page: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/2000-watt-24v-solar-system.html
MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
Yea i got that. I was referring to the "feature" the OP mentioned ... there are battery protect features in the Battleborn batteries, battery protect features in the SCC, ...
Sorry for reading all the words?
Based on @Will Prowse statement (on his page):
"Due to a recent change by victron, the battery protect is not recommended for this system. Just connect everything to a bus bar or surface mount terminal. "
We can only guess without knowing about the "recent change by victron".
I do recall a lot of discussion about relays like the BP100 quickly powering up large inverters. And, the quick inrush of current can blow the capacitors. Maybe that's it?
Victron BatteryProtect modules are not designed to cut inverter power lines, they are designed to disconnect non-essential DC loads from a battery that would otherwise be damaged from further discharge. They CAN be used as a soft-disconnect if your inverter supports it. Connecting a BatteryProtect to an inverter's supply line may damage your BatteryProtect.
Her's how I have connected my BatteryProtect. I have an older model so don't use the soft-disconnect - I configure my inverter's low voltage disconnect manually.
Her's how I have connected my BatteryProtect. I have an older model so don't use the soft-disconnect - I configure my inverter's low voltage disconnect manually.
Carly
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I posted a link above describing the problem of using it in a bidirectional circuit (fire). I believe Will used it in the circuit for over-discharge protection:
"The BatteryProtect disconnects the battery from non essential loads before it is completely discharged (which would damage the battery) or before it has insufficient power left to crank the engine." A second line was later (I believe) added to this description, "The BatteryProtect is not designed for reverse currents from charging sources" https://www.victronenergy.com/battery_protect/battery-protect
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Justin Laureltec
Bay Marine Supply Tech Support Manager
@Carly , Will added the "Do Not Use BatteryProtect" note in this photo because the picture shows it connected in a way that allows reverse current through it, and also is directly disconnecting the main DC line of the inverter, both of which are expressly forbidden by Victron due to the guarantee of component failure when the BP is connected in such a manner.
@tictag has it right, that's how you use a BP. There are other permissible ways to use it, but none of them are the way that's shown in the photo, thus why that photo -and many schematics and videos from back before this issue was entirely known- has been edited to show that you should absolutely never connect a BP that way.
@tictag has it right, that's how you use a BP. There are other permissible ways to use it, but none of them are the way that's shown in the photo, thus why that photo -and many schematics and videos from back before this issue was entirely known- has been edited to show that you should absolutely never connect a BP that way.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
My (somewhat feeble) recollection is that this started with the problem of putting reverse current through the Victron Battery Protect. That can damage the BP and possibly cause a fire. That pretty much rules out using it with a bi-directional device like an inverter/charger or All-in-one.
About that same time people started talking about using it 'backwards' between the battery and an inverter-only device. In this case there would not be a reverse current. However, someone (Victron?) realized that the huge inrush surge that happens when the inverter is first connected can damage the FETs of the Victron Battery Protect. (The inrush is caused by the large capacitors on the input of all inverters) So... the end result is that the Victron BP should not be used in-line with an inverter.
Like I said, that is my recollection..... but it could be wrong. No matter what the reason, it is clear that Victron does not support using the BP in-line with an inverter. Will did the right thing by correcting his pictures/drawings.
About that same time people started talking about using it 'backwards' between the battery and an inverter-only device. In this case there would not be a reverse current. However, someone (Victron?) realized that the huge inrush surge that happens when the inverter is first connected can damage the FETs of the Victron Battery Protect. (The inrush is caused by the large capacitors on the input of all inverters) So... the end result is that the Victron BP should not be used in-line with an inverter.
Like I said, that is my recollection..... but it could be wrong. No matter what the reason, it is clear that Victron does not support using the BP in-line with an inverter. Will did the right thing by correcting his pictures/drawings.
Lisbonlife
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Thank you. I'm curious to know how to shut power off to the inverter to protect the battery from 110ac
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I don't understand the question? Are you you asking about shutting off the DC to the inverter?
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
On a mobile system (RV or Boat) I always recommend having a disconnect on the DC+ going to the inverter.
It is also a good practice to put in a pre-charge circuit. This is my current favorite way of doing that:
Resistor: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H5GBF2D
Switch: https://smile.amazon.com/Perko-8501DP-Marine-Battery-Selector/dp/B00144B6AE/
Notes:
•The switch can not get to ‘ALL’ or ‘2’ without going through ‘1’
•The pre-charge resistor will be mounted on back of switch.
•Even if the user does not paus on ‘1’ the inverter capacitors will probably be adequately charged.
TURN ON:
1)Confirm Inverter Switch is OFF.
2)Turn switch to ‘1’ & count to two.
3) Turn switch to ‘All’
4)Turn ON inverter.
(It does not need to be switched to ‘2’, but it does not hurt if it is.)
TURN OFF:
1)Turn Off Inverter.
2)Turn switch to OFF
It is also a good practice to put in a pre-charge circuit. This is my current favorite way of doing that:
| Position | Function |
| OFF | Inverter Disconnected |
| 1 | Pre-charge Inverter Capacitors |
| ALL | Inverter Connected |
| 2 | Inverter Connected |
Switch: https://smile.amazon.com/Perko-8501DP-Marine-Battery-Selector/dp/B00144B6AE/
Notes:
•The switch can not get to ‘ALL’ or ‘2’ without going through ‘1’
•The pre-charge resistor will be mounted on back of switch.
•Even if the user does not paus on ‘1’ the inverter capacitors will probably be adequately charged.
TURN ON:
1)Confirm Inverter Switch is OFF.
2)Turn switch to ‘1’ & count to two.
3) Turn switch to ‘All’
4)Turn ON inverter.
(It does not need to be switched to ‘2’, but it does not hurt if it is.)
TURN OFF:
1)Turn Off Inverter.
2)Turn switch to OFF
I am assuming that you mean disconnecting your inverter so that it doesn't discharge your battery too low.
There are two ways:
- As @FilterGuy says, you can physically disconnect the power line using a switch (but not a BatteryProtect!)
- You can also 'switch the inverter off' using a remote signal, if your inverter supports this.
Lisbonlife
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Thank you, neither of those options will work as this is for a camp and I'll be away. While away I'm hoping to still power a refrigerator, but maybe I'll just need to turn it off when I leave.
Option (2) is entirely automatic i.e. will work whether you are there or not.
Lisbonlife
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I'm guessing that's a wifi connection? No internet, but thank you for taking the time to help. This has been a fun project to work on.
Lisbonlife
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If possible can you offer a product that you are referencing? I do not understand. This is the model I have. It does say it has low voltage protection but I think it's just an alarm. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078MPQ382/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This inverter does have product variants with a wireless remote but none appear to have a wired remote, but it does have a switch.
I'm using the Victron BatteryProtect as an example here, but there are other product brands out there. The Victron BatteryProtect has a programmable relay that energises (or de-energises) given a programmable trigger e.g. Battery voltage low. Some inverters have a port on the back for such remote control. So, if the BatteryProtect operates, it will automatically switch off your inverter. I don't mean disconnect the inverter as a switch would, I mean turn it off as if you flipped the on/off switch.
There's a thread on here that discusses how you could use such a remote control on an inverter that doesn't have the wired remote port by basically bypassing the on/off switch. This would be a hack, obviously.
But what all this means is that such a device could disconnect your DC loads and switch your inverter off completely automatically. If the battery voltage rises above a certain threshold, everything turns back on again ... automatically. No humans required.
Clear as mud?
I'm using the Victron BatteryProtect as an example here, but there are other product brands out there. The Victron BatteryProtect has a programmable relay that energises (or de-energises) given a programmable trigger e.g. Battery voltage low. Some inverters have a port on the back for such remote control. So, if the BatteryProtect operates, it will automatically switch off your inverter. I don't mean disconnect the inverter as a switch would, I mean turn it off as if you flipped the on/off switch.
There's a thread on here that discusses how you could use such a remote control on an inverter that doesn't have the wired remote port by basically bypassing the on/off switch. This would be a hack, obviously.
But what all this means is that such a device could disconnect your DC loads and switch your inverter off completely automatically. If the battery voltage rises above a certain threshold, everything turns back on again ... automatically. No humans required.
Clear as mud?
