Battery to inverter fuse type

[EPicTony]

I'm building my system and need to fuse the battery bank. 30kwh 48v
Class t fuses are super expensive, what do you think about these ? Way cheaper and I won't cry if I blow a fuse. thanks for your help !

InstallGear 0/2/4 Gauge Ga ANL Fuse Holder + 300 Amp ANL Fuses (2 Pack) ​

 

[shot428]

Tis all about the potential 20K arc

 

[A.Justice]

It's possible that those fuses won't be able to extinguish an arc from a high power battery properly.

Class T's are used for a reason. You can get them on eBay WAY cheaper if you look. IIRC, I paid like $8 a fuse last time for "new, old stock".

 

[shot428]

I got 2 of these

Eaton Bussmann Fuse Link 120 A, 800 V AC

Shop Online Eaton Fuse Link 120A Rated Current 800V AC Products Ref No: GSMJ120 at Best Price in India on Eleczo.com

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for $27

100% new and original BUSSMANN GSMJ120A SEMICONDUCTOR FUSE LINK 120 AMPERE | eBay

We assure you to give a satisfactory resolution to it. faster and better resolutions to any dispute. All queries are replied promptly. Our goal is to provide best quality products at best possible prices.

www.ebay.com

You can also get the British version of a type T fuse ( BS88 ) on ebay fairly cheap

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322226197978?hash=item4b062d95da:g:V8sAAOSw95FZZYLO&amdata=enc:AQAHAAABEAId3tu4C47nDW8PmiPk+SrzbrJFFFP+Sl9ACfqcB+gVjnLxJydrUOenH0whCKItE63lVdSA0TRqnCN3S3e+b4XUYnk5pnFlbqYEm43XhxeGR1pNEksdWiBs0L/e5ez+/SnMBXJEfbvGyR+vDkvN36yH5zj1laipTH55DgzRIyE8SP8xhmemgnVmwLoEHQVX/2vE6MGYFlL5u9ZjY8azCSgauraQdq0ZfEFSnU/uCWmjVNGoaRzV62TSN4gPO8jRG8hvhhi5DM/huoVkZ5YeB9JPLwyjkn0ufYISFEukKFLsRXgiV6oySl87tykTis+aVH1cYM2xaWJrDiRyyTPHZvLzRct3q8uMP9A8Ujigi6MS|tkp:BFBMwqTg2shg

 

[Honuz]

48v 400amp ANL fuse holder?

Hi everyone. I can get 48v 400amp ANL fuse but can’t find a holder that is for a 48v system. I can get a class t fuse rated the same but not the holder. What the heck! Some don’t state what dc volts they carry. Any help much appreciated. Fraser

diysolarforum.com

 

[Honuz]

Tis all about the potential 20K arc

20k$ ..? 20kEuros ? 20kBananas ?
If you meant 20kV ... then he is pretty ok since it's a 48V bank...
And if it was 20kA ... where this information comes from that a 48V sub 300A LifePo4 pack can make that kind of Amp ?

The "gap" in an ANL fuse is like .. 1cm, it's the gap that would remain if the "fuse" part melt... i'm not a specialist .. but i can't see it arc with a 48V voltage.

 

[Honuz]

It's possible that those fuses won't be able to extinguish an arc from a high power battery properly.

Class T's are used for a reason. You can get them on eBay WAY cheaper if you look. IIRC, I paid like $8 a fuse last time for "new, old stock".

ANL and MEGA Fuses are used by Victron .. so .. i can't see why it would be a problem.
Ref :

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Midi,-Mega-and-ANL-fuses,-and-fuse-holders-EN.pdf

"The ANL fuse has a window where you can see if it is blown or not, and the contacts are plated to reduce corrosion, and in addition the ANL fuse is ignition protected so it can be used in an engine compartment of a gasoline powered boat. The Mega fuse produces a spark when it blows so isn't suitable for use near gasoline. Mega fuses are available up to 300 Amps but the ANL fuse comes in sizes all the way up to 750 Amps

One of the big differences is Interrupt rating. Interrupt rating refers to the level of current that a fuse can safely interrupt. In severe overcurrent situations a fuse will blow but vaporize and the metal will condense right back on the base it has just vaporized from. The end result is that it doesn't interrupt the circuit and the fault continues despite the fact that the fuse has blown. ANL fuses have an interrupt rating of 5000 Amps which by the ABYC standards allows them to be used as the primary circuit protection for large battery banks. Mega fuses have only an interrupt rating of 2000 Amps and cant be used as primary protection on large battery banks"
Ref : https://shop.pkys.com/anl-vs-mega

 

[Steve_S]

You fuse every battery pack within a bank eh. The DC BUS then goes to the big breaker which in turn is connected to inverter & SCC systems. SCC goes to a) breaker out to Batt side And b) has an incoming breaker from solar panels. REGARDLESS if panels have combiner with breakers or cutoff mechanism.

Hope it helps

 

[Zwy]

I'm building my system and need to fuse the battery bank. 30kwh 48v
Class t fuses are super expensive, what do you think about these ? Way cheaper and I won't cry if I blow a fuse. thanks for your help !

InstallGear 0/2/4 Gauge Ga ANL Fuse Holder + 300 Amp ANL Fuses (2 Pack) View attachment 104463​

48V system.

ANL is fine for 12V.

MEGA is only rated up to 32V, again 12V would be fine, on 24V I'd go Class T.

48V nominal voltage system, you need a Class T. Ebay or sites like this best prices and good quality T fuses, are reasonable. I have purchased from Best Converter and Ebay, no complaints.

 

[Honuz]

48V system.

ANL is fine for 12V.

MEGA is only rated up to 32V, again 12V would be fine, on 24V I'd go Class T.

48V nominal voltage system, you need a Class T. Ebay or sites like this best prices and good quality T fuses, are reasonable. I have purchased from Best Converter and Ebay, no complaints.

Victron Mega exist in 58V

 

[A.Justice]

.... ANL fuses have an interrupt rating of 5000 Amps which by the ABYC standards allows them to be used as the primary circuit protection for large battery banks....

A class T can interrupt 20,000 amps.

There's small lithium banks that can EASILY push well over 5000 amps during a short. For a larger pack, 5000 amps can be within spec. Most of the time, the ANL fuse would probably be okay, but if your bank can put out more power then your fuses rating, you shouldn't be using that fuse.

Edit: I just sat you have a 30kwh, 48v bank. You need a class T.

 

[A.Justice]

Class T vs ANL fuse

I'm about to start my upgrade to our RV electrical system. It will be a Victron MultiPlus 3000 with 4 Battleborn Batteries and 700 watts of solar. I went and go everything from BattleBorn but noticed that they supplied me with a 400 Amp ANL fuse to place between the battery and the inverter (it...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Clifton]

You can get new DC breakers on Ebay pretty cheap. The specs are published on them for trip time vs amps. I think this was a medium. If it's a dead short it just trips. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222304797420

 

[Zwy]

Victron Mega exist in 58V

They do, if used in the Victron fuse holders. If price is a concern, I doubt a person would purchase Victron.

Find the AIC rating because they don't print it that I've been able to find.

One thing to remember is Victron indicates the MIDI, MEGA and ANL are fuses designed for downstream protection of individual circuits, not for overall system amperage protection. That is an important distinction, just like if there was a 300A MINI fuse manufactured, you wouldn't use it for overall system amperage protection. It wasn't designed for that purpose.

Read this from the Victron forums, especially the post by johnsmith regarding AIC MRBF fuse in Lynx distributor

 

[Honuz]

A class T can interrupt 20,000 amps.

There's small lithium banks that can EASILY push well over 5000 amps during a short. For a larger pack, 5000 amps can be within spec. Most of the time, the ANL fuse would probably be okay, but if your bank can put out more power then your fuses rating, you shouldn't be using that fuse.

Edit: I just sat you have a 30kwh, 48v bank. You need a class T.

Source of the "easy" 5000A ? Cause i do not like to build my thinking on unreliable informations. (i'm not saying you are unreliable .. but i would like to know the source of this information)

 

[A.Justice]

You can get new DC breakers on Ebay pretty cheap. The specs are published on them for trip time vs amps. I think this was a medium. If it's a dead short it just trips. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222304797420

I've never heard of those type of breakers before. It SAYS the AIC rating is 25,000 amps at 60vdc. UL listed too... ?

Source of the "easy" 5000A ? Cause i do not like to build my thinking on unreliable informations. (i'm not saying you are unreliable .. but i would like to know the source of this information)

I have a 25 amp hour lithium cell that I was able to pull well over 600 amps out of. Go to Google and type in "calb grey cell test" that dude manages to pull over 2,000 amps out of a SINGLE cell. Your pack is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than that. Even if your bank was lead acid, a 30 kilowatt pack should be able to push 5,000 amps, no problem.

Most lithium cells can push out over 20c druing a short, some can probably do much more. 30kw / 48v = ~625ah. 625ah x 20c = ~12,000 amps of short current, minimum.

 

[Honuz]

They do, if used in the Victron fuse holders. If price is a concern, I doubt a person would purchase Victron.

Find the AIC rating because they don't print it that I've been able to find.

One thing to remember is Victron indicates the MIDI, MEGA and ANL are fuses designed for downstream protection of individual circuits, not for overall system amperage protection. That is an important distinction, just like if there was a 300A MINI fuse manufactured, you wouldn't use it for overall system amperage protection. It wasn't designed for that purpose.

Read this from the Victron forums, especially the post by johnsmith regarding AIC MRBF fuse in Lynx distributor

They are talking about 60V system which is not what we are looking for here, but the discussion in your link is informative, thanks.
The question remain the same ... how much Amp can make a 300A LiFePo4 when shorted.

 

[Steve_S]

LFP can Burst discharge to 5C.
100A -> 500A

 

[Honuz]

You can get new DC breakers on Ebay pretty cheap. The specs are published on them for trip time vs amps. I think this was a medium. If it's a dead short it just trips. https://www.ebay.com/itm/222304797420

A DC breaker is not a fuse,

I've never heard of those type of breakers before. It SAYS the AIC rating is 25,000 amps at 60vdc. UL listed too... ?

I have a 25 amp hour lithium cell that I was able to pull well over 600 amps out of. Go to Google and type in "calb grey cell test" that dude manages to pull over 2,000 amps out of a SINGLE cell. Your pack is SUBSTANTIALLY larger than that. Even if your bank was lead acid, a 30 kilowatt pack should be able to push 5,000 amps, no problem.

Most lithium cells can push out over 20c druing a short, some can probably do much more. 30kw / 48v = ~625ah. 625ah x 20c = ~12,000 amps of short current, minimum.

I know the video, Damien did 2200A on a 180A LiFePo4 grey Calb
One cell or many in series would change nothing, still be 2200A, the voltage will just be higher, cause each cell would have to sustain the 2200A, the current "flow" go through each cell.
Of course a 280A LiFePo4 Cell could generate more Amp if shorted... but .. is it linear, if it is .. i can guess a 280/180*2200 = 3400A

Which is under the ANL 5000A fuses AIC.

But i'm not an electrician .. so maybe i missed something.

Ps : Note that the Amp that Damien get in his experience may be undervalued....

 

[A.Justice]

LFP can Burst discharge to 5C.
100A -> 500A

I've personally witnessed cells do much higher than that. I posted a video on here not too long ago on a shorted a 25 amp hour cell, and it maxed out my 200a amp clamp. I redid the test later with a 600a clamp, and it maxed it out as well.

They are talking about 60V system which is not what we are looking for here, but the discussion in your link is informative, thanks.
The question remain the same ... how much Amp can make a 300A LiFePo4 when shorted.

This one shows a little bit over 2000 amps.

https://m.facebook.com/gwlcompany/videos/what-happens-if-you-short-circuit-the-lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-/1619406801530025/

Here's the guy who does a 2200a, single cell short in his garage.