Batterytestcentre.com.au

[JIMMY]

There is a local (to me) company doing some comprehensive accelerated capacity and performance testing here with a range of batteries.

They cycle them 3x a day over a proposed 3 year period to simulate 9 years of real world, once a day, cycle use. They are adjusting temperatures to simulate Australian seasonal conditions of between 12C and 36C.

There are a number of Lifepo4 in there too.

Lithium Ion Battery Test Centre – Independent battery performance testing by ITP Renewables

There are some interesting results with some lifepo4 degrading much faster than expected. (BYD @64% capacity after 1740 cycles, CALB battery had a cell failure, was replaced, had some other issues and now looks to have been excluded from future testing results)

Reports – Lithium Ion Battery Test Centre

Good to see some independent laboratory testing being done in real world conditions.

Regards Jimmy

 

[FilterGuy]

Great information. Thanks for sharing!

 

[JeepHammer]

Thanks!
Always like to see someone with no dog in the fight be a judge.

 

[Sojourner1]

I've been following them since they started years ago. It's interesting to see the issues they had to go through with some of the manufactures.

Read the year end findings from each year, download pdfs.

These test are under punishing conditions which most folks are not using day to day in these extremes.

Plus it seems the average user would rather purchase batteries on price rather than known quality as can be seen in this forum and others like it.

 

[Deleted member 783]

Plus it seems the average user would rather purchase batteries on price rather than known quality as can be seen in this forum and others like it.

I would respectfully disagree at least in the context of this forum. KNOWN quality will always be preferred and paid for (see:Honda). Unfortunately there are a lot of unknowns and outright lies in this realm.

 

[Sojourner1]

Unfortunately there are a lot of unknowns and outright lies in this realm.

Buyer beware of the snake oil salesman, if it sounds to good to be true or it's to good of a deal to pass up there just might be a reason.

When I got our lfp I can remember all the ney sayers or it's too much money. Now with everyone getting in the game with dropin batteries and some at a too goog of a price to pass up, I'll bet in a couple years there will be a few that will complain how they got screwed or lfp is just garbage. Not thinking about when you start with possible subpar you'll get subpar results.

Or manufacturers telling customers to charge/ float at 14.4v +. Or telling to absorb charge for hours on end, there will be a lot of unhappy users down the road.

 

[Ceberha]

Just read through all of the reports from this independent Australian test center. The temperatures they use are higher than will be true for most, as they seek to replicate outdoor conditions in Australia, and that may account for some of the faster degradation. They are also cycling them hard. Still, many of the LFP cells seem to be down to 80 percent in under 2000 cycles. Interesting data.

 

[Sojourner1]

I've followed the test center since they started and is interesting. One thing that I think that's stands out in their test facility is one set of parameters doesn't fit across all brands of batteries bms's, but it is something seeing the packs working at the extremes.

In real-life not to many systems will go through that kind of torture. Even though some try a lite version when trying to top balance and get impatient trying a "shortcut".

 

[toms]

This test centre is an absolute joke.

It was clearly set up by a group of people that know very little about energy storage to take advantage of an Australian Government grant for research into renewable energy.

The way they test batteries is akin to someone testing a road car by competing flat out in the Dakar rally - and then saying the road car is no good because it overheated and got bogged.

It is impressive that they managed to swindle millions of taxpayer dollars, but disappointing that they don’t provide meaningful information.

 

[HaldorEE]

I just want to know where I can buy Sony Fortelion batteries. Sony has a long history of making high quality, battery powered products. It is no surprise that their battery storage technology is performing extremely well in the tests.

38 C (104 F) is not an unreasonable temperature for Phoenix. Especially if the batteries are located in an outbuilding or garage.

 

[HaldorEE]

From the September 2020 report:

"3.2. Sony Fortelion Operational Issues The Sony pack has completed a high number of cycles. No faults have been experienced in the past six months or at any time during testing, and it is still cycling extremely well. There is a small jump in SOC at the end of the charge cycle as it recalculates from 95% to 100%.

Capacity Fade: The energy discharged per cycle is depicted in Figure 3. It can be seen that capacity has generally decreased over time. The data suggests a SOH of ~85% after ~2,610 cycles."

15% loss of capacity after 2600 cycles in a brutal test environment like this is pretty incredible performance.

 

[Ceberha]

From the September 2020 report:

"3.2. Sony Fortelion Operational Issues The Sony pack has completed a high number of cycles. No faults have been experienced in the past six months or at any time during testing, and it is still cycling extremely well. There is a small jump in SOC at the end of the charge cycle as it recalculates from 95% to 100%.

Capacity Fade: The energy discharged per cycle is depicted in Figure 3. It can be seen that capacity has generally decreased over time. The data suggests a SOH of ~85% after ~2,610 cycles."

15% loss of capacity after 2600 cycles in a brutal test environment like this is pretty incredible performance.

Agree on the strong performance of the Sony cells. While it would have been nice for the testing to be a bit closer to average conditions, it is rare to see controlled head to to head comparisons such as this, and I think that they provide an interesting if flawed window into longevity. The BYD cells also held up fairly well. I noticed that one of the packs (Alpha) used EVE cells, but unfortunately did not complete testing due to technical problems.

 

[FilterGuy]

This test centre is an absolute joke.

It was clearly set up by a group of people that know very little about energy storage to take advantage of an Australian Government grant for research into renewable energy.

The way they test batteries is akin to someone testing a road car by competing flat out in the Dakar rally - and then saying the road car is no good because it overheated and got bogged.

It is impressive that they managed to swindle millions of taxpayer dollars, but disappointing that they don’t provide meaningful information.

I don't know enough about them to say they are a joke or a tax-payer rip off. They may well be.

However, testing something at the extremes is not necessarily a bad practice. It is done all the time on all sorts of products. It is one way of finding the limits of capability for a product. The absolute extreme is destructive testing were you push it till it brakes. Furthermore, by having many products that are pushed in similar ways is a valid way of comparing the durability of products in an accelerated manor. However, if that is all they are doing it is not sufficient. It is only one set of data that is needed to fully understand a product.

 

[HaldorEE]

Accelerated electronics life testing is always done at temperature extremes. Nobody wants to wait 10 years to find out if a product will last for 10 years.

 

[HaldorEE]

I don't know enough about them to say they are a joke or a tax-payer rip off. They may well be.

However, testing something at the extremes is not necessarily a bad practice. It is done all the time on all sorts of products. It is one way of finding the limits of capability for a product. The absolute extreme is destructive testing were you push it till it brakes. Furthermore, by having many products that are pushed in similar ways is a valid way of comparing the durability of products in an accelerated manor. However, if that is all they are doing it is not sufficient. It is only one set of data that is needed to fully understand a product.

38 degree C is not pushing to destruction. That is well within normal operating temperature range. I just completed a design for use in oil field pump control and the operating temperature range is -40 ºC to +80 ºC (winter in the North Shore of Alaska to direct sun in the Middle East). That includes a sensor with a primary lithium battery that has to provide a 1 year operating life.

This is the battery I am using. 3.6V, 19AH, -55 ºC to +85 ºC

http://www.tadiranbat.com/assets/tl-5930.pdf

 

[toms]

Accelerated electronics life testing is always done at temperature extremes. Nobody wants to wait 10 years to find out if a product will last for 10 years.

Unfortunately with LiFePO4 cells, you cannot reliably extrapolate extreme testing results to typical use results.

 

[toms]

Sounds like a comment from someone who knows nothing about the people behind the testing and whom they are.

I’ve followed this project from when the ARENA grant was issued.

I’ve also been involved in hundreds of remote area power systems using LiFePO4 cells dating back to 2011.

I have worked with battery and BMS manufacturers over this period, and have a clear view of what causes degradation in LiFePO4 cells.

It was very clear from the beginning that the people putting these batteries together had little or no prior knowledge of actual power systems that use these cells.

I’m judging the people by what they have done - i don’t care who they are.

If the data gathered is not relevant to actual systems then what is the point?

I have all the information i need to build long lasting and cost effective LiFePO4 systems, this test centre offers nothing of value to me - and is way to limited in its scope and sample size to offer meaningful information to anyone.

Anyone that believes getting a single battery from a manufacturer, then using it on a fringe area of its limitations to see what happens is providing a service should get a job in the Aus government and hand out more useless grants.

 

[toms]

I have put up. Dozens of systems installed with my help (at no charge) over the last decade. Hundreds of people helped with information to install their systems.

I can offer you more information backed by ACTUAL installations that i have installed or helped install - utilising many different brands and configurations depending on requirements.

What is it that you were wanting to know?

 

[HaldorEE]

I’ve followed this project from when the ARENA grant was issued.

I’ve also been involved in hundreds of remote area power systems using LiFePO4 cells dating back to 2011.

I have worked with battery and BMS manufacturers over this period, and have a clear view of what causes degradation in LiFePO4 cells.

It was very clear from the beginning that the people putting these batteries together had little or no prior knowledge of actual power systems that use these cells.

I’m judging the people by what they have done - i don’t care who they are.

If the data gathered is not relevant to actual systems then what is the point?

I have all the information i need to build long lasting and cost effective LiFePO4 systems, this test centre offers nothing of value to me - and is way to limited in its scope and sample size to offer meaningful information to anyone.

Anyone that believes getting a single battery from a manufacturer, then using it on a fringe area of its limitations to see what happens is providing a service should get a job in the Aus government and hand out more useless grants.

What suggestions do you have? I live in Phoenix Arizona, so high temperature testing is very much what I am interested in.

 

[toms]

All the LiFePO4 packs install are in climate controlled enclosures.

I wouldn’t recommend letting the cells operate at all outside the 0 - 35 degree C range.

Typically i install residential off-grid systems, this temperature can normally be achieved by ducting air from the living area to a well insulated outside enclosure.

Generally in winter the heat of the inverter/charger keep the enclosure warm, in summer high air flow from the living area keeps the enclosure cool.