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diy solar

Beating the heat with a PCM Vest?

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
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Phase Change Material Cooling Vest

If you put a jacket on to stay warm in winter, how about one to stay cool in summer?

Don't need to cool 1600 lbs of water from the waterbed thread if these really work....

Basically this is like ice in the lining of a jacket…but rather than too-cold ice it’s “phase-change” material which “melts” at about 62°. So not too cold against your body and can supposedly can keep you for cool for a couple of hours.

Here's a $15 DIY version. There’s also a +$200 version similar to what NASA uses in space suits with pumped circulation and some "evaporation" models if you live in a dry climate.
 
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More on Phase Change Cooling Vests

Feel's like 109°F outside just now, it was 103° just before 9.

When I was younger it wouldn't stop me and I'd go out and play...now a days being out in this for anything over then 30 min and I'm not sure I'll make it.

If global warming is a real thing, young or old, we might all be wearing these before too long.
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It would be nice to go out and play today. So, glad I rad across these, would be nice if they were affordably priced. So what about that DIY?
Looking into the phase change gel, there are a few types, but it looks like to get around 60°F, only salts and organics will do the trick.

Haven't seen where you could buy a gallon of organics, for example the PlusICE A16:
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The A17 properties look a bit similar to pure acetic acid (melting point 17C, 2.18 j/gK latent heat of fusion 181 KJ/Kg); possibly a similar molecular weight with a polar hook?

But the DIY link above uses Sodium polyacrylate (a salt) at 1 tsp per quart, which is available on Amazon (or dug out of diapers). Seems odd a salt is increasing the melting point...but hey...it's on the internet it must be true right? Perhaps I'm a touch dubious. It could be that the sodium polyacrylate's job is just to make a leak-proof bag rather than raise the melting point.

Haven't seen any specific properties; but if you assume similar to water then the latent heat of fusion is 333 KJ/Kg and heat capacity of 4.1 J/(g·K) or seawater then 293 KJ/Kg and 4.0 J/gK. So both look favorable over Organic in terms of how long they'll last or how heavy it needs to be for a similar amount of cooling.

This is interesting... using distilled water will allow it to absorb twice the volume:
 
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This is interesting from this ref… basically it’s a few PCMs starting at -12°C and plunged into a 30°C
bath. Don’t know the density of the sodium polyacrylate, but there’s no clear phase change as with
the water, but it stays below 18°C for 40 min. The bath temperature wasn’t maintained at 30°C, so
glycerin had the highest heat absorption. It also suggests that the sodium polyacrylate doesn’t
have a melting point, it’s like wax in that it melts over a range of temperatures… probably has
to do with how much any granule absorbed versus another.

Update: Wikipedia has a lot of PCM properties listed.
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Peltier Vest

Not sure if these exist, but that doesn't mean they can't be made! How crazy is this?

From here we can see that a big guy (2 m^s) would produce 480W playing tennis.

Let's say Thot is 104°F and Tcold is 59°F, a delta of 45°F. So, how long would a 13oz 57Wh LiPo RC battery last?

According to this peltier device's datasheet, a delta T of 21°C at 4 amps is 10V and can move 15W heat for 40W power. 480 W / 15 W = 32 devices.
15x40 = 600 Watts, The RC battery has 3,420 Wm, so it would last a little over 5 minutes. Oh well.
 
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How long would a PCM vest work for our Tennis Player?

Let's reuse the 480W heat for a tennis player and see how long a PCM vest would last. Let's see, that's 1540 BTU/hr for our tennis player.

This vest has 16x 350g gel bags, so that's 12.3 lbs. The bag empty weighs something, let's call it 12 lbs of ice. From ice to 60°F is about 172 btu/lb, so 2000 BTUs or 586 Watts. So the vest should last over an hour! It's gel rather than ice, so probably not as good thermally. But still, that might actually work.

At 12 lbs, the weight is pretty hefty, about twice as heavy as a leather jacket.
 
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I was re-reading the above analysis and realized it was missing a key consideration... while the themal cooling is there... is it fast enough (e.g., high enough wattage) to absorb the heat as quickly as it could be produced?

While googling for an answer I ran across a National Center for Biotechnology Information study:

The four cooling methods (ice vest [IV], phase-change vest [PCM], water-perfused suit [WS], and combination ice slurry/ice vest [SLIV]) and no cooling (CON).

We observed significant improvements in trial times for IV (18 ± 10 min), PCM (20 ± 10 min) and SLIV (22 ± 10 min), but no differences for WS (4 ± 7 min). Heart rate, rectal, mean skin, and body temperatures were significantly lower in all cooling conditions relative to control at various matched time points in the first 60 min of exercise. Thermal sensation, comfort and perceived exertion all had significant main effects for condition, and time, there were no differences in their respective interactions.

The IV, PCM, and SLIV produced lower heart rate, mean skin, rectal and mean body temperatures in addition to improved work times compared to control. The WS did not improve work times
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Human body produce about 80Wh of heat, but it can climb up to 400 Wh under big effort.
The problem is you will need to capture this energy (best place is hand and feet and lungs) transport it elsewhere and dissipate.
(Army made experiment to cool and heat a body using just hands.)

you can transport passive cooling using ice, but this is cumbersome since you will need to keep cool the ice until you need it, and water is heavy
There is a place on earth (mexico) where a Cave contains giant crystal. unfortunately the place is very hot and humid.
Scientists who study the place need to wear a cooled suit.
 
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Picked up some sodium Polyacrylate to test with and made two 1 cup batches, one with 2 tsp of rubbing alcohol (dyed green).
As expected the straight up water (blue dye) froze hard, but the polymer made shear lines making it easy to snap chunks.
The one with rubbing alcohol had flex so it didn't freeze together in a solid mass.

I did goof, being a cheapskate I noticed that the stuff for mealworms was a lot cheaper than instant snow. When they arrived I realized they were 'gel crystals" and a couple of mm across and not "powder". I put the crystals into the water, they just sat there, so I put a second tsp in. Still nothing. It took about an hour for them to absorb the water. So, probably used twice as much as was needed. The crystals are very light, so the mass is primarily water and I'm pretty sure that can be safely used for the total heat transfer.

I was hoping to put a time/temperature graph up, but can't get steady readings with the IR gun. I have the bags laying on aluminum foil laying on flat dinner plates on a wood surface. I was hoping the aluminum would give me a nice even average temperature, but the temperatures are all over the place from 25° to 45° F. I didn't vacuum seal the bags.

I finally thought to use the IR imager, and then later thought to add a cap to the H2O plate to make it easy to distinguish which as water and which had alcohol. They illustrate the problem and I think give a range to the "melting" temperature.

1595511970254.png

The gel crystals are fairly big when wet, oddly shaped but somewhere between 5 to 10 mm. The interesting thing about this is that as the outer gels form an insulative barrier for inner ones, so the outer temperature should raise with time. That's probably why there's a temperature gradient too, different thicknesses across the bag? The effect would probably be more pronounced with the power form than the gel crystals.

To cold to go near the skin when they come out of the freezer and as they melt so far, so it would need some sort of additional barrier in a cooling vest. Have to dash, but will post a couple of IR images later and any other observations.

If you have ideas on how to improve the experiment let me know.
 
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This is at about 1 hr, the darkest regions are ~40°F and lighter purple regions ~49°F.
1595528431719.png
 
Been mucking about with this again and thought I'd share the recent learning... made up a batch with 6 cups of water, 6 tsp sodium Polyacrylate, and a 1/4 cup of isopropyl alcohol (should have used a 1/2 cup, when frozen the result is a bit stiff). No dye, just in case it leaked.

Then I bagged it using the wife's vacuum bagger. No vacuum just used the sealer function. Let the crystal absorb/swell overnight, then using a 1/4 cup baking measure put 1 cup in, then sealed, then another cup, sealed, etc.

Basically, I wanted a row of popsicle-like tubes as a single large bag as it melted it would all flow to the bottom of the bag. The concept semi-worked, when melted the top half sinks to the bottom half, couldn't get them tight enough to not collapse. The seams are big enough that it folds nicely in the freezer.

Then I put some duct tape around a couple of tubes so I could alter the height - but that plan didn't work out.
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The Test
I put the little 1-cup pouches I'd made last year in the front pockets of a fishing vest. The whole back unzips for cooling...but there's an inner mesh so it makes a really big pocket and that's where the ice-tubes went.

The first concern I had was that it would be too cold. But with a knit shirt it felt okay. The back felt cool, but the front felt warm.
I was also concerned that the cold and humidity it would cause the back to sweat, I did see some of that, but it was very minor.

The Tube shape is perfect for going across the upper back - makes good contact when pulled tight. The little pouches in the front pockets didn't feel like they were doing anything.

Overall the vest pockets just didn't work. They were too deep and everything wanted to sink to the bottom. It's subjective, but the cooling felt best high on the chest and back. In retrospect, your skin probably has the best heat transfer ability where your shirt gets soaked with sweat first.

To keep the back "tubes" from sliding down I tied a piece of rope around midway on the vest to try and hold them higher on the back. Looked goofy, but not only did it hold it up, the cooling vest seemed to work - I spent about an hour cleaning the garage (so still in shade) and hadn't broken a sweat. I know, doesn't sound like much, but an hour usually leaves me crawling back in begging for air conditioning. There was some melting, but a lot of ice left. Probably would have lasted 2 hours. Not sure how well I would have done in direct sunshine.

Lessons Learned
  1. They work! Time to take the summer back!
  2. Even though I was carrying 8 cups of frozen water (4 lbs), the weight didn't feel bad.
  3. They need to be high and snug (contact anyway), can't just be something sitting in your pockets.
  4. You don't need to make your own gell packs, turns out there are all sorts of seriously inexpensive gell packs in pretty much every shape (images are amazon links) for medical reasons. Some can be put into the microwave to double as "heating pads" (learned this recently while looking for a new heating pad (don't ask ;-).
  5. large pouches (like the Remedy above) slouch when they melt.

Next Steps
To go farther with the test unit I'd need some way to control the adjustments, the rope-trick is pretty weak. The vest isn't well balanced with the ice either, probably because I had 6 cups in the back and two in the front. I had no way to keep the front ice packs where I wanted and it didn't feel like they were providing anything. ;-)

I'm thinking about getting a professionally made version. If anyone has recommendations let me know. What I think I'm looking for is:
  1. Something that has adjustments, getting it snug seems to be key to keeping cool.
  2. Definitely ice. Air or "wet evaporation" just won't work well here as it is too humid.
  3. Possibly tube shapes on the back and squares or triangles on the front so the wife can use it too.
Amazing that the gel packs and vests are inexpensive, but something like this is expensive:
 
Have to agree with his comments about ice. Also agree that they don't seem to keep up if you're doing hard labor. The circulating vest sounded interesting and got me thinking about some of @curiouscarbon 's Peltier experiments. Don't see why you couldn't do that to eliminate the external pack altogether. Anyway, hope everyone's staying cool this summer!
 
The reason the topic is important to me is I want to have a solution for a high humidity heat wave where I can be outdoors. I'm fortunate enough to have enough solar/battery to run an AC and keep one room cool, but not enough to keep the house cool. Chances are good that if a hurricane has passed though, there will be things I need to do outside urgently.

It doesn't have to get that hot here for heat to be a serious problem. Here the humidity is so high you don't get much evaporative cooling. I'd like to say I'm smart enough to not do dangerous things with the outside heat, but I've already proved to myself more than once I'm not. It doesn't take that long outside in summer. Mostly in summer, I try to work only on projects that will fit in the garage (it's still hot in the garage, but I have a dehumidifier and a box fan which both help tremendously).

It's easy to forget that other parts of the country can be as bad, from a few weeks ago:
On June 28, when temperatures peaked at 116 F... there were some 2,779 emergency room visits for heat-related illnesses. Ultimately, more than 160 people died from extreme heat in Oregon and Washington.... ref

Florida has about twice that number of heat-related fatalities every year. Ideally, I'd like to find something comfortable that worked and was affordable.
 
The reason the topic is important to me is I want to have a solution for a high humidity heat wave where I can be outdoors. I'm fortunate enough to have enough solar/battery to run an AC and keep one room cool, but not enough to keep the house cool. Chances are good that if a hurricane has passed though, there will be things I need to do outside urgently.

It doesn't have to get that hot here for heat to be a serious problem. Here the humidity is so high you don't get much evaporative cooling. I'd like to say I'm smart enough to not do dangerous things with the outside heat, but I've already proved to myself more than once I'm not. It doesn't take that long outside in summer. Mostly in summer, I try to work only on projects that will fit in the garage (it's still hot in the garage, but I have a dehumidifier and a box fan which both help tremendously).

It's easy to forget that other parts of the country can be as bad, from a few weeks ago:


Florida has about twice that number of heat-related fatalities every year. Ideally, I'd like to find something comfortable that worked and was affordable.
I find that staying active outside year round is the best way to stay acclimated to the heat. Drink lots of water before activity, then more afterward. Air conditioning has a way of taking the life out of people.
 
...Drink lots of water before activity, then more afterward. Air conditioning has a way of taking the life out of people.
Glad you've found something that works for you and you can save a heck of a lot of power/$ by not using AC.
Previously I lived in Colorado without AC and with its dry air I rarely had problems provided I was hydrated. Even now I can work in the dehumidified hot garage with little trouble. I grew up here and left in my 20s. We had AC then, but I was outside all day playing sports through the summer without issue. But not anymore, outside in the tropical environment and I'll be sweat-drenched and ready to keel over before you know it if I'm not careful.
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Most that perished in the Oregon/Washington heat wave mentioned above were like me, over 60.​

I saw a Californian posting that their solar systems weren't working as well on a day it hit 106°, and looking up LAs hottest day it was 121°. Here, surrounded by water, our temperature rarely goes above 94°; but our humidity in summer is something wicked. The "Feels Like" was 114° the other day.

I hope older members have backup plans for extremely hot days because those are the days the power will be more likely to brown out.
 
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Glad you've found something that works for you and you can save a heck of a lot of power/$ by not using AC.
Previously I lived in Colorado without AC and with its dry air I rarely had problems provided I was hydrated. Even now I can work in the dehumidified hot garage with little trouble. I grew up here and left in my 20s. We had AC then, but I was outside all day playing sports through the summer without issue. But not anymore, outside in the tropical environment and I'll be sweat-drenched and ready to keel over before you know it if I'm not careful.
Most that perished in the Oregon/Washington heat wave mentioned above were like me, over 60.​

I saw a Californian posting that their solar systems weren't working as well on a day it hit 106°, and looking up LAs hottest day it was 121°. Here, surrounded by water, our temperature rarely goes above 94°; but our humidity in summer is something wicked. The "Feels Like" was 114° the other day.

I hope older members have backup plans for extremely hot days because those are the days the power will be more likely to brown out.
I live on the other end of the state, so I am quite a bit north of you, but you do get more sea breeze than we do. I was just in the Bahamas last week. Going ashore during the day was quite a bit hotter than sitting in the shade on a boat.

I am also in my 60's. I am about to head out to lunchtime pickup soccer. I play twice a week all year. August is harder on me these days, but I have been doing it for over twenty years now. It took three full years (at about 40 years old) of playing twice a week before I could play in August without bending over and wheezing after five minutes. I went to Tucson once and got to play lunchtime soccer there. It was 115 and sunny, and they were all complaining about the heat. I thought it was a great cool day since I am not used to having sweat evaporate at all.

I didn't say I don't have A/C, but I know that it does take the life out of you. I struggle with it daily.
 
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