Beginning installation of Schneider XW Pro/EG4ll batteries V1/MPPT 100A 600V OFF-GRID only questions

[Brucey]

@timselectric Can you check this for me? I think I may have wired the FUSE holder wrong on the midnite solar combiner box.
The panels PV wire comes in to the large Square D disconnect box on the right. Then it goes out through the liquid ream toward the left into the midnite solar combiner box. Should the PV + array (input) wire go into the BOTTOM of the fuse holder and then the Positive wire for PV output go into the top of the fuse holder which then goes out toward the charge controller? I think I have it backwards in photo 1.

It doesn't matter as its a fuse. If it was a polarized breaker then you would want the pv+ connected to the terminal marked by ++.

 

[SniperX]

It doesn't matter as its a fuse. If it was a polarized breaker then you would want the pv+ connected to the terminal marked by ++.

Was going by this. The diagram shows the opposite of what I did.

 

[Brucey]

Was going by this. The diagram shows the opposite of what I did.

Thats fine the bus bar could be on the bottom if you were combining strings. Main thing is never open it under load or a spectacular fire could result.

 

[SniperX]

Hopefully last question: Just want to check this part about my batteries. I grounded each battery down to the next battery all the way down to the ground on the rack.
I just read somewhere that batteries SHOULDN'T be grounded? Is that right? I was going to run a long green #6 from the ground on the battery rack into the inverter. Now I am not sure what to do. (the photo shows the green wires on the left going to the rack but I wasn't done wiring, so disregard anything not hooked up, the photo is just to show the grounds daisy-chained)
TWO QUESTIONS:
1) Is it ok to daisy-chain the batteries with a ground wire as shown on the left side under the positive battery terminal to the ground on the cabinet so that they are grounded to the cabinet?

2) Do I run a ground wire from the ground on the cabinet bottom where the batteries ground to the cabinet to the inverter or do I just need to ground the batteries to the cabinet? My rack was one of the first ones and although they said the wings on the battery serve to ground to the rack, my wings were painted on the backside. So, to remove the batteries and file off the paint was a pain. I decided to ground this way to make sure I had a good ground to the cabinet.


@timselectric @BentleyJ @400bird @wheisenburg @dougbert

 

[hwy17]

Similar to PV, it used to be common practice to ground either the negative or positive battery conductor but we don't do that anymore.

I would call what you're doing "grounding the battery case" rather than "grounding the battery" and that's good to do. Wiring looks good to me but I don't even bother grounding my battery cases so I don't have high standards.

 

[BentleyJ]

Its called an "Equipment Ground" which is always required vs. a "System Ground" which would be IF either of the battery OR PV + or - conductors was grounded and as hwy17 mentioned this is very rarely called for anymore.

 

[dougbert]

battery containers/cases/racks grounded yes


battery NEGATIVE - NO,

 

[SniperX]

Its called an "Equipment Ground" which is always required vs. a "System Ground" which would be IF either of the battery OR PV + or - conductors was grounded and as hwy17 mentioned this is very rarely called for anymore.

Ok, I feel like an idiot, but does this eventually mean that the battery rack case needs a ground back to the inverter because the inverter's ground makes it way back to the main panel where the earth ground originates. I am artistic and not left brained. I wished I was more engineer-minded, but I am not, thus the reason for breaking it down to the simplest terms, lol.

The red wire (in my photo of the batteries/rack) near the bottom of the rack was loose, it was not attached to the rack, so not grounded. I was not done wiring.

 

[BentleyJ]

Red wire is Batt positive, yes? It should not be grounded. The Green wire from the rack on the other hand should be attached to something that traces back to earth ground such as the inverter chassis.

 

[SniperX]

Red wire is Batt positive, yes? It should not be grounded. The Green wire from the rack on the other hand should be attached to something that traces back to earth ground such as the inverter chassis.

Thanks. I should have taken an updated photo where the wires weren't loose but I was lazy. NO positive or negative battery cables are ground to the rack. Just the ground wires attached to the batteries then the last battery ground goes to the ground on the rack. Then from that ground on the rack, a ground to the inverter ground bar. I will post updated photo for future readers. Thanks for answering!

 

[SniperX]

Wired up the breaker I am using for a cut-off switch inside. I am really limited to space. Did not realize how tight things would get quickly! How do things look @BentleyJ?

 

[dougbert]

do you have a 1 line diagram schematic drawn? that can help with overview

For an example, in my build thread (link in signature) in post 1 I have such and other overview diagrams that provide a "design"

FWIW

 

[SniperX]

do you have a 1 line diagram schematic drawn? that can help with overview

For an example, in my build thread (link in signature) in post 1 I have such and other overview diagrams that provide a "design"

FWIW

No, I don't. I have been working in sections at a time and having that checked. This is the last step and I wired like BentleyJ told me to so was just wanting him to look it over. When everything checks out, I should draw one up so it can be useful.

 

[dougbert]

No, I don't. I have been working in sections at a time and having that checked. This is the last step and I wired like BentleyJ told me to so was just wanting him to look it over. When everything checks out, I should draw one up so it can be useful.

no problem, it just would assist to understand where you are going to concerning the various parts
good work regardless

 

[BentleyJ]

Wired up the breaker I am using for a cut-off switch inside. I am really limited to space. Did not realize how tight things would get quickly! How do things look

Yes, I have the same problem. Purchase a J box for a small project to put in some DIN breakers or an I/O port module for home automation and all of a sudden end up with 7 pounds of S*%T in a 5 pound bucket as they say.

Grounding looks good, may even be a bit of overkill but that's ok.

One question? How is the gutter and breaker box ground going to ultimately tie back into the mini PDP and then back to the panel to the earth ground rod. According to the labels on the 3rd pic. Ground from the battery rack will come up and pass through the gutter up to the mini PDP which leaves the gutter and breaker box isolated.

Maybe I'm missing something cause you are not done yet, but seems like you would either need to run a ground from the charge controller (which will be grounded to the gutter) along with the battery cables to the battery rack OR better add a lug and tie battery rack ground to the gutter as it passes through.

 

[SniperX]

I forgot to mention that I am putting a ground lug in the gutter for battery rack ground to go to as it passes through the gutter on its way to the PDP. Good for you to point out In case others read it! Thanks.

 

[SniperX]

The breaker box ground goes to double lug on gutter, from the other side of the double lug it goes up into the middle conduit along with the PV wires to the charge controller grounding lug. That grounding lug is tied to the PDP ground next to it which goes in a path to the main breaker box.

 

[SniperX]

So, I put the charge controller in standby so I could add it to the insight home setup. I took pictures of the settings but I need some help with that.
I have 6 in parallel 48V 100A EGlls V1 for my battery bank.
My solar is 8 panels in series
455W
VOC is 49.8
operating voltage or vmpp is 41.1
Isc is 11.61A

Was kinda going by Dave Poz because he had same type of battery (v2) so figured his settings would be similar. Can you guys check this for me before I turn on the panels?
@BentleyJ @dougbert @wheisenburg @Brucey @hwy17 @400bird @GXMnow

 

[BentleyJ]

Charger Settings (Built in charger in the Inverter)
Disable Equalize
Disable Equalize Now
Set to 2 Stage Charging, not 3
Set Float to 54.0V (which is irrelevant if 2 stage is selected BUT if you ever wish to enable 3 stage, float is already set correctly)

Batt Settings
Temp coefficient set to 0.

External BMS settings are being displayed so closed loop communications is working
Not sure if you are going to use SoC control?
If so SoC Control has to be enabled and the SoC values for battery charging have to be set. That page was not displayed.

EDIT: Reviewed your first post. If you still plan on using the Honda 7000, There is a Gen support menu that will limit gen amperage.

 

[SniperX]

Charger Settings (Built in charger in the Inverter)
Disable Equalize
Disable Equalize Now
Set to 2 Stage Charging, not 3
Set Float to 54.0V (which is irrelevant if 2 stage is selected BUT if you ever wish to enable 3 stage, float is already set correctly)

Batt Settings
Temp coefficient set to 0.

External BMS settings are being displayed so closed loop communications is working
Not sure if you are going to use SoC control?
If so SoC Control has to be enabled and the SoC values for battery charging have to be set. That page was not displayed.

EDIT: Reviewed your first post. If you still plan on using the Honda 7000, There is a Gen support menu that will limit gen amperage.

I found the SOC area. It was set by default to 50%. Should I go by SOC since I have closed loop with the insight home? It so, what would you set at? I have only 3600 watts of solar, and Florida seems to be cloudy a lot lately, so should I keep it there or set higher so my batteries will be full for AC at night? I changed everything else you mentioned! I really appreciate the help. Last photo made me smile!

 

[BentleyJ]

Since I don't have a Schneider compatible Battery/BMS, our system is voltage control only so no first hand experience with SoC. I do have some observations that may be of use.
1) BMS Status Page: Shows Maximum Charge as 30A which is consistent with a single 100Ah battery but you have 6. Maximum Discharge is 600A which is consistent with 6 batteries. Not sure if these values would override the Inverter Charger settings which I believe you had at 100% (140A) See Comment on 2) below. Schneider has what I consider poor and incomplete documentation about the specifics of what imported BMS values actually do and what priority is given to Battery Voltage vs. SoC values regarding how the system operates.

2) Since your system is DC coupled, off-grid. Charger Settings are not relevant unless the generator is running and there is available power at AC1 or AC2. Although they should be set correctly so when the Gen starts, things work as desired. I would leave Recharge SoC at 50%, its a good starting point. Change it later if needed.

3) Battery Capacity: Shows as 600Ah, did you set this manually or did this come from the BMS? I'm not sure of all the ways the BMS may or may not integrate into the Schneider environment. Hopefully someone else can fill in some blanks here.

4) AC Couple: Is Enabled, probably don't need that but don't believe it would cause any issues either way.

5) Aux Output Relay: Is set to trigger on Low Voltage. Is that for setting an alarm or Auto Gen start? Either way 47V is kind of low, doesn't give you any early warning.

One of the main complaints with BMS-SoC control has been poor accuracy of SoC but this is usually caused by long standby times where small parasitic loads are below the measurement threshold. Since your system is off-grid the batteries will be cycling more with larger average currents so you should find SoC control to be reliable. If this turns out not to be true, please let us know.

 

[SniperX]

I totally get you guys now! Plugged those panels in, fired my system up and have done a load of laundry and am cooking a corned beef in the instant pot WITHOUT A GENERATOR! God, What a feeling! I mean, it is indescribable. We have been on the generator for 27 months which was killing us. We were very mindful of the amount of time we ran things and we definitely changed our electricity habits but now, at least while we have good sun, I can turn a light on without turning the generator on. I am on the internet without the generator. OFF GRID finally rocks!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HELPING ME GET ENERGY INDEPENDENT. I COULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT ALL THE ADVICE/HELP, AND HAND-HOLDING.

 

[SniperX]

Since I don't have a Schneider compatible Battery/BMS, our system is voltage control only so no first hand experience with SoC. I do have some observations that may be of use.
1) BMS Status Page: Shows Maximum Charge as 30A which is consistent with a single 100Ah battery but you have 6. Maximum Discharge is 600A which is consistent with 6 batteries. Not sure if these values would override the Inverter Charger settings which I believe you had at 100% (140A) See Comment on 2) below. Schneider has what I consider poor and incomplete documentation about the specifics of what imported BMS values actually do and what priority is given to Battery Voltage vs. SoC values regarding how the system operates.

2) Since your system is DC coupled, off-grid. Charger Settings are not relevant unless the generator is running and there is available power at AC1 or AC2. Although they should be set correctly so when the Gen starts, things work as desired. I would leave Recharge SoC at 50%, its a good starting point. Change it later if needed.

3) Battery Capacity: Shows as 600Ah, did you set this manually or did this come from the BMS? I'm not sure of all the ways the BMS may or may not integrate into the Schneider environment. Hopefully someone else can fill in some blanks here.

4) AC Couple: Is Enabled, probably don't need that but don't believe it would cause any issues either way.

5) Aux Output Relay: Is set to trigger on Low Voltage. Is that for setting an alarm or Auto Gen start? Either way 47V is kind of low, doesn't give you any early warning.

One of the main complaints with BMS-SoC control has been poor accuracy of SoC but this is usually caused by long standby times where small parasitic loads are below the measurement threshold. Since your system is off-grid the batteries will be cycling more with larger average currents so you should find SoC control to be reliable. If this turns out not to be true, please let us know.

On the first question: I did not set those settings for the BMS, but would not want to discharge those 600A (maximum discharge) so should I changed it to 80% which would be 480A?

Question 3, I had to manually set it to 600A because it only communicates with the first battery I was told.

Question 5, I don't know about that. I have not set up the output relay for anything although I plan to put an audible alarm that tells me when the batteries need charging due to cloud cover/no solar input so I can hook the generator up to start the chargeverter. What setting would you set it at when I get that set up?

This is my first day and I have no idea what to look for, etc.

I am not happy about the fact that I have to turn a computer on to monitor this and I tried the app but it doesn't seem to have the same info the computer webpage shows. I guess I will have to rig a tablet up like Dave Pot did but I have a million iPads and hate to have to purchase an android. Can an iPad be used now? Dave's video is a few years old. What are you guys using?

 

[SniperX]

I set the solar to charge the batteries when they get to 54V because I want the batteries to be full for the evening when there is no solar. I have less solar than I should because I only set up half my panels, so I can't get too far behind in case of rain or clouds. Will this be ok or am I being overly cautious? The solar was producing around 3kw but when it was set lower (like 53v) the solar production was halted and the load was being powered by the batteries. I am paranoid right now, lol. I am sure it will all make sense once I have data.

 

[BentleyJ]

Good to hear your system is producing power, nothing better than that

The 600A Discharge limit is only a value on the BMS status page, I was just noting the Charge/Discharge values are not consistent with the number of batteries. its a new system don't overthink it in the beginning. Leave as is the inverter can't pull more than about 190A continuous.

For a low voltage alarm triggered by the Aux relay, I would say 49 or 50V is good starting point for a LV warning.

As far as accessing the Insight or any of our electronics like the home automation controller and so forth, I prefer to sit down in front of a 24" monitor and be able to see everything without fumbling around with a phone or BlueTooth or a tiny display on the inverter or whatever. Guess I'm on the opposite side of this issue.

Note: According to the power flow pic the battery is taking 2.4kW (about 44A) at only 53.9V and the SoC is showing 99%. No way the battery is at 99% if its taking that much current at such low voltage. You need to get those batteries up to a true 100%. This will be evident when the current starts to tail off when the Charge voltage is 54.4 or above. The SoC needs to get recalibrated in the BMS. I've seen this behavior before with EG4 batteries on a new system.