diy solar

diy solar

best all in one system

Julianna

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Nov 11, 2021
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I'm setting up a system to go in my shuttle bus conversion. I'm thinking about getting a 530w solar panel and 4 100ah 12v LIFEPO4 batteries to offset the high consumption I know the all in one systems have. I know the MPP LV2424 has a power saving setting but was wondering how effective it is? as well i was looking at the 3000w Growatt all in one system and was wondering if it had the same option? i also saw this HYBRID LV2424 – 24V 2.4kW system and was wondering if this would be better than the regular system? One of the things I'm worried about in the regular MPP LV2424 is that I saw in the specifications this unit is the only one made with a PWM instead of MTTP charge controller.

What system would you suggest? How would you rate these systems? Any info is appreciated, thanks.
 
I'm setting up a system to go in my shuttle bus conversion. I'm thinking about getting a 530w solar panel and 4 100ah 12v LIFEPO4 batteries to offset the high consumption I know the all in one systems have.

If you buy an All in One then you want to buy all of your panels at once, or ensure that you can buy identical panels at some point in the future. Your 530w panels is just a fraction of the total solar input, and not enough to charge a 400ah 24v battery.

I think the Growatt 3000w is superior to the LV2424 based on inverter size and just the weight of the unit. Seems like it has to be sturdier and probably has more heat sinks.
 
If you buy an All in One then you want to buy all of your panels at once, or ensure that you can buy identical panels at some point in the future. Your 530w panels is just a fraction of the total solar input, and not enough to charge a 400ah 24v battery.

I think the Growatt 3000w is superior to the LV2424 based on inverter size and just the weight of the unit. Seems like it has to be sturdier and probably has more heat sinks.
What would you say is a reasonable amount of solar input to be effective and will also be able to fit on the roof.

I was also leaning toward the Growatt, but do you know of any power saving feature?

Thanks for you time
 
I'm setting up a system to go in my shuttle bus conversion. I'm thinking about getting a 530w solar panel and 4 100ah 12v LIFEPO4 batteries to offset the high consumption I know the all in one systems have. I know the MPP LV2424 has a power saving setting but was wondering how effective it is? as well i was looking at the 3000w Growatt all in one system and was wondering if it had the same option? i also saw this HYBRID LV2424 – 24V 2.4kW system and was wondering if this would be better than the regular system? One of the things I'm worried about in the regular MPP LV2424 is that I saw in the specifications this unit is the only one made with a PWM instead of MTTP charge controller.

What system would you suggest? How would you rate these systems? Any info is appreciated, thanks.
Is this for purely off-grid use or also sometimes grid-tied? Sounds as though you just need 120VAC, correct?

Any what is it about all-in-ones that has you enamored? It it primarily the compactness?

I have a small (1.1kW) DC-coupled system for backup power when grid goes down composed of a 3kW PSW (Reliable) and a 60A SCC (Epever 6420AN-Series MPPT). Total cost was under $500 without counting the battery or the panels.

You could use an even cheaper 40A SCC with only a single 530W panel…

If you have space for two small boxes rather than one larger one, a seperate PSW + SCC generally offers a great deal more flexibility, especially if you ever decide to upgrade anything, and will often price out cheaper than an all-in-one.
 
What would you say is a reasonable amount of solar input to be effective and will also be able to fit on the roof.
To answer that you need to provide some idea of your daily energy usage (including ‘while-sun-is-shining’ consumption as well as overnight consumption).
I was also leaning toward the Growatt, but do you know of any power saving feature?

Thanks for you time
What power-saving are you specifically interested in? As low stands consumption as possible while the AC power is always ‘at the ready’ or the ability to consume minimal power while battery is charging but AC is turned off?

A seperate SCC such as the Epever AN—Series includes programmable dry contacts with a timer so that you can easily turn off a PSW except during pre-determined hours of use and/or once battery voltage is above some threshold.
 
Is this for purely off-grid use or also sometimes grid-tied? Sounds as though you just need 120VAC, correct?

Any what is it about all-in-ones that has you enamored? It it primarily the compactness?

I have a small (1.1kW) DC-coupled system for backup power when grid goes down composed of a 3kW PSW (Reliable) and a 60A SCC (Epever 6420AN-Series MPPT). Total cost was under $500 without counting the battery or the panels.

You could use an even cheaper 40A SCC with only a single 530W panel…

If you have space for two small boxes rather than one larger one, a seperate PSW + SCC generally offers a great deal more flexibility, especially if you ever decide to upgrade anything, and will often price out cheaper than an all-in-one.
It would be mostly off grid and i would also like to be able to charge my batteries via shore or generator power.

The main thing i like about the all in one systems is the how easy they are to install, as i have no experience with electrical work and am not extremely confident in my abilities unfortunately.

That system seems very affordable though. i think i would just have to buy something to monitor the statuses of my batteries. i was originally looking at the Aims 2500W Power Inverter Charger with Transfer Switch (12VDC to 120VAC) because of the ability to charge via shore power or generator, but the cost of that system was over $600 alone which is also what drew me to the all in one system.

Thank you:)
 
It would be mostly off grid and i would also like to be able to charge my batteries via shore or generator power.
Depending on how frequently your going to need that capability, any old AC charger can be powered in parallel (through an extension cord, even).

Or you can look at PSW inverters that have an AC input and an AC charger.

Generator charging can be simple or fancy. There are many fancy all-in-ones with generator controls and generator inputs, though even the Epever SCC I referenced includes obstructions for how to use one of the programmable dry contacts to automatically start a generator when the battery is discharged low enough (which can then just power an AC charger through an extension cord),

You really need to the ink through your use cases and how much you want to invest more in ‘design/build’ it once for easy use, versus ‘plug things together for the rare times the capability / configuration will be needed’…
The main thing i like about the all in one systems is the how easy they are to install, as i have no experience with electrical work and am not extremely confident in my abilities unfortunately.
There really is not that much difference between install complexity and separate boxes. The primary advantage of the all-in-ones is their (relative) compactness and the fact that the fancier models offer much more programmability.
That system seems very affordable though. i think i would just have to buy something to monitor the statuses of my batteries.
Any half-decent SCC will provide full-battery monitoring (in addition to the programmable dry contacts available on the better SCCs like my Epever 6420AN),
i was originally looking at the Aims 2500W Power Inverter Charger with Transfer Switch (12VDC to 120VAC) because of the ability to charge via shore power or generator, but the cost of that system was over $600 alone which is also what drew me to the all in one system.

Thank you:)
Yeah, an inverter like that is the way to go if you want to frequently connect to shore power and have everything from there be automatic once the grid signal is detected.

Or alternatively, if you are only going to connect to shore power during rare spells of foul weather you can connect an extension cord from a shore outlet to a basic AC battery charger only when it’s needed (an AC charger and an SCC can be used in parallel).

A transfer switch is really only needed in the case that you have heavier loads that cannot be powered by your PSW so you only want them connected and powered when shore power is available…

The more you can think through your use cases and what is important to you, the better job you’ll be able to do designing a system that suits your needs.
 
To answer that you need to provide some idea of your daily energy usage (including ‘while-sun-is-shining’ consumption as well as overnight consumption).

What power-saving are you specifically interested in? As low stands consumption as possible while the AC power is always ‘at the ready’ or the ability to consume minimal power while battery is charging but AC is turned off?

A seperate SCC such as the Epever AN—Series includes programmable dry contacts with a timer so that you can easily turn off a PSW except during pre-determined hours of use and/or once battery voltage is above some threshold.
i used one of the resources provided here on the site (Energy audit and sizing tool) and i think my average daily consumption would be roughly 2kwh.

i was just hoping these models would have either type just something that can offset the high idle consumption.

I will definitely have to check that scc out as it seems very useful thank you for the recommendation!
 
Depending on how frequently your going to need that capability, any old AC charger can be powered in parallel (through an extension cord, even).

Or you can look at PSW inverters that have an AC input and an AC charger.

Generator charging can be simple or fancy. There are many fancy all-in-ones with generator controls and generator inputs, though even the Epever SCC I referenced includes obstructions for how to use one of the programmable dry contacts to automatically start a generator when the battery is discharged low enough (which can then just power an AC charger through an extension cord),
I like the sound of this set up!
You really need to the ink through your use cases and how much you want to invest more in ‘design/build’ it once for easy use, versus ‘plug things together for the rare times the capability / configuration will be needed’…

There really is not that much difference between install complexity and separate boxes. The primary advantage of the all-in-ones is their (relative) compactness and the fact that the fancier models offer much more programmability.

Any half-decent SCC will provide full-battery monitoring (in addition to the programmable dry contacts available on the better SCCs like my Epever 6420AN),

Yeah, an inverter like that is the way to go if you want to frequently connect to shore power and have everything from there be automatic once the grid signal is detected.

Or alternatively, if you are only going to connect to shore power during rare spells of foul weather you can connect an extension cord from a shore outlet to a basic AC battery charger only when it’s needed (an AC charger and an SCC can be used in parallel).

A transfer switch is really only needed in the case that you have heavier loads that cannot be powered by your PSW so you only want them connected and powered when shore power is available…

The more you can think through your use cases and what is important to you, the better job you’ll be able to do designing a system that suits your needs.
So would you recommend and would it be cheaper to just buy the ac charger separate? it seems as though it may be a smart idea too just in case i were to have problems with the PSW it wouldn't effect my ability to still charge the batteries via AC charger compared to if they were both in one system? (my fridge and some other small appliances run on DC i know i still wouldn't have AC power) would this work?

Is there any specific AC charger you would recommend? I am finding your input very helpful thank you again!
 
i used one of the resources provided here on the site (Energy audit and sizing tool) and i think my average daily consumption would be roughly 2kwh.
That’s a good start. Have you thought about how much of that consumption will be during daylight hours and how much overnight when the sun is not available?
i was just hoping these models would have either type just something that can offset the high idle consumption.
Here is the 3kW PSW I have: https://www.amazon.com/Reliable-RBP...t=&hvlocphy=9032080&hvtargid=pla-825538526368

‘Low no load current draw of under 1A,the power inverter will drain you battery much slower than many other kinds of inverter.’

So leaving this inverter idling all night will consume under ~24W or ~12% of your daily power budget.

Of that is too high for you to stomach, you need to shut the inverter down when it is not needed (either automatically using a timer or whatever sensor/controller or manually using a switch).

Was is it that makes you feel the need to have power on standby and available all night long?

I will definitely have to check that scc out as it seems very useful thank you for the recommendation!

I didn’t know about those programmable dry contacts when I bought it - it’s the hidden gem of those Epever SCCs and probably delivers over half the programmability / functionality you’d get from any of those budget all-in-ones…
 
That’s a good start. Have you thought about how much of that consumption will be during daylight hours and how much overnight when the sun is not available?
I would think a good portion of it during daylight and the fridge would probably turn on less in the nights mainly LED lighting at night and a small fan or two (i should probably try to charge my electronics during the day)
‘Low no load current draw of under 1A,the power inverter will drain you battery much slower than many other kinds of inverter.’

So leaving this inverter idling all night will consume under ~24W or ~12% of your daily power budget.
Thank you so much!!! that sounds very efficient!
Of that is too high for you to stomach, you need to shut the inverter down when it is not needed (either automatically using a timer or whatever sensor/controller or manually using a switch).

Was is it that makes you feel the need to have power on standby and available all night long?


I didn’t know about those programmable dry contacts when I bought it - it’s the hidden gem of those Epever SCCs and probably delivers over half the programmability / functionality you’d get from any of those budget all-in-ones…
I don't think i would need to have it on all night long, but so I could turn the inverter off manually or purchase a separate sensor/controller to switch it on/off automatically correct?

Does the programing guide for the Epever SCC come with it or is it available online? is there any settings you would definitely recommend programming upon install? You've got me thinking maybe it would be worth it to not go with the all in one system now, I'm sure ill have many other questions but I'm finding this community and recourses to be extremely helpful. Thank you for all your time!
 
I would think a good portion of it during daylight and the fridge would probably turn on less in the nights mainly LED lighting at night and a small fan or two (i should probably try to charge my electronics during the day)
Yeah, you’ll want to do as much recharging as you can while the sun is shining.

As far as the fridge, fridges are sort of a ‘battery’ for cold, so you should be able to turn off the inverter for some number of hours overnight (2am - 6am)?

That is, if you don’t also need fans running (though DC-powered fans are probably a better idea anyway, as are DC-powered night lights) and if saving that ~100Wh of inverter idle power is worth the trouble to you ;).
Thank you so much!!! that sounds very efficient!

I don't think i would need to have it on all night long, but so I could turn the inverter off manually or purchase a separate sensor/controller to switch it on/off automatically correct?
Most inverters including that Reliable inverter have a remote switch that should be able to be controlled by the Epever’s programmable dry contact (which can be programmed to turn off the inverter at 2am until the sun is shining, for example).

Again, only worth the trouble if you need to save that ~100Wh of idle energy before the sun starts charging.
Does the programing guide for the Epever SCC come with it or is it available online?
The only drawback of the Epever products is that the documentation is lousy. They are generally responsive and attempt to be helpful, but with English as a second language for them, you’re likely going to be spending some time getting answers from other Epever SCC owners here on the Forum.

The manual’s are available online as well as (I believe) at Epever’s website (scroll down to ‘download’): https://www.epever.com/product/tracer-an-50-100a-mppt-charge-controller/



is there any settings you would definitely recommend programming upon install? You've got me thinking maybe it would be worth it to not go with the all in one system now, I'm sure ill have many other questions but I'm finding this community and recourses to be extremely helpful. Thank you for all your time!
My advice would be to start by selecting your battery and your panels. Those will both have specifications you’ll need to nail down before selecting an SCC or an inverter.

Hooking up everything on your backyard to assure all the pieces are working together as expected and playing around with different settings is pretty straightforward to do but the real work will be getting everything wired into your van - do you have someone to help you with that?
 
Yeah, you’ll want to do as much recharging as you can while the sun is shining.

As far as the fridge, fridges are sort of a ‘battery’ for cold, so you should be able to turn off the inverter for some number of hours overnight (2am - 6am)?

That is, if you don’t also need fans running (though DC-powered fans are probably a better idea anyway, as are DC-powered night lights) and if saving that ~100Wh of inverter idle power is worth the trouble to you ;).
that is good to know! and yes i would like to have as many things running on DC as possible, id assume it would just make things simpler right?
Most inverters including that Reliable inverter have a remote switch that should be able to be controlled by the Epever’s programmable dry contact (which can be programmed to turn off the inverter at 2am until the sun is shining, for example).

Again, only worth the trouble if you need to save that ~100Wh of idle energy before the sun starts charging.

The only drawback of the Epever products is that the documentation is lousy. They are generally responsive and attempt to be helpful, but with English as a second language for them, you’re likely going to be spending some time getting answers from other Epever SCC owners here on the Forum.

The manual’s are available online as well as (I believe) at Epever’s website (scroll down to ‘download’): https://www.epever.com/product/tracer-an-50-100a-mppt-charge-controller/
hm despite that the product seems to be worth it though with all the things you can do, plus like you said this is a good recourse to use to help me figure that stuff out ☺️
My advice would be to start by selecting your battery and your panels. Those will both have specifications you’ll need to nail down before selecting an SCC or an inverter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3734904072...ueRV9kBXvEL8RgfkuIQx|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2563228

This is the link to the batteries I'm going with and i will be getting 4, how large do you think my solar array should be? I think the energy audit excel sheet calculated I should need roughly 600w. These batteries should work with the Epever SCC correct?
Hooking up everything on your backyard to assure all the pieces are working together as expected and playing around with different settings is pretty straightforward to do but the real work will be getting everything wired into your van - do you have someone to help you with that?
Yes that is definitely going to be the challenging part, not to mention trying to figure out what to do with all the wiring that's already in the bus for the wheel chair lift and AC unit, that's a whole other problem though?

Do you think i would be able to hook up the existing AC unit since it works perfect? Sorry I know i have more questions than you signed up for, i appreciate all the help you have been able to give me so far.
 
that is good to know! and yes i would like to have as many things running on DC as possible, id assume it would just make things simpler right?
With DC power, there is no ‘idle loss’ so the system is an energy-efficient as it can be. The inverter in not needed (can be off), just an SCC.
hm despite that the product seems to be worth it though with all the things you can do, plus like you said this is a good recourse to use to help me figure that stuff out ☺️
As long as your are a DIYer and not expecting everything to be as obvious and easy as it could be, you’ll be fine.
Those batteries should be fine with pretty much any SCC, but the cost is low enough I’d suggest for other owners and or reviews here on the forum before pulling the trigger.

And as far as array size, I think you said 2kWh per day of load.

So yo translate that to a target array size, you should determine whether that is year-round including winter or only in summer, as well as what zip codes that will be in.

Using PV Watts you can then see how much power you will get from a 1kW array (or whatever) in different locations / zip codes and in different months through the year: https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

Here in the Bay Area, I generated 3kWh today with my 1.1kW array, as a real-world example…

A 600W array might generate 2kW on summer, but is unlikely to provide that much in winter.

You also need to factor in ‘tilt’ - flat panels will generate less output than panels that are optimally tilted towards the sun.

Yes that is definitely going to be the challenging part, not to mention trying to figure out what to do with all the wiring that's already in the bus for the wheel chair lift and AC unit, that's a whole other problem though?

Do you think i would be able to hook up the existing AC unit since it works perfect? Sorry I know i have more questions than you signed up for, i appreciate all the help you have been able to give me so far.
Again, it’s a question of figuring out the maximum load so you size the inverter large enough. With motor-driven loads such as fridges as well as AC, you also need to size large enough for motor inrush current when the motor first turns on.

My 3kW inverter is large enough to start my large Samsung Fridge but I have no idea about AC…
 
With DC power, there is no ‘idle loss’ so the system is an energy-efficient as it can be. The inverter in not needed (can be off), just an SCC.

As long as your are a DIYer and not expecting everything to be as obvious and easy as it could be, you’ll be fine.

Those batteries should be fine with pretty much any SCC, but the cost is low enough I’d suggest for other owners and or reviews here on the forum before pulling the trigger.

And as far as array size, I think you said 2kWh per day of load.

So yo translate that to a target array size, you should determine whether that is year-round including winter or only in summer, as well as what zip codes that will be in.

Using PV Watts you can then see how much power you will get from a 1kW array (or whatever) in different locations / zip codes and in different months through the year: https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

Here in the Bay Area, I generated 3kWh today with my 1.1kW array, as a real-world example…

A 600W array might generate 2kW on summer, but is unlikely to provide that much in winter.

You also need to factor in ‘tilt’ - flat panels will generate less output than panels that are optimally tilted towards the sun.
Thank you for the link! and I live in Florida so as i would get plenty of sun here now i plan to travel to places during times there may not be much sun that's why charging via generator and also having an alternator charger is a must
and so i think i should be looking more in the 700-800w range for panels then
Again, it’s a question of figuring out the maximum load so you size the inverter large enough. With motor-driven loads such as fridges as well as AC, you also need to size large enough for motor inrush current when the motor first turns on.

My 3kW inverter is large enough to start my large Samsung Fridge but I have no idea about AC…
I think the 3kw inverter you mentioned should be more than enough for my usage thankfully! especially because many things will already be on DC
thank you!
 
I've scanned through this and there is a few minor things to ponder.
semi-point form.
- With Solar Systems like most everything else the KISS rules applied is best. Keep it Simple Silly.
- AIOS have Solar, Inverter & Charger built-in but they are modular internally, therefore repairable/replaceable. They have AGS (Auto Gen-Start) ports that can connect to a GSCM (Generator Start Control Module) to start/stop a Compatible Generator. Most have the ability to interact & work with Commercial Battery Assemblies and in some instances certain 3rd party BMS' which we DIY'ers use.
- AIO Integration SIMPLIFIES a lot, that is obvious enough for all to see.
There are "Value Grade" units (MPP) and all the way up to Tier-1 Premium but a Good respected Mid-Grade is Growatt !
Many Versions ! Hair Pull Time. There are various Hybrids, many can use a Genset &/OR Grid and they will have an internal ATS (Auto-Transfer Switch) and will have programmable thresholds for charging & pass-through power.

A few other diddies. The general rule of do not pull more than 250A from banks applies.
12V @ 250A = 3000W (120V/25A) 24V@250A=6000W (120V50A) 48V@250A=12000W (120V/100A) uncorrected. Divide output amps by 2 for 240VAC. NOTE, This does not include Surge Handling. High Frequency Inverters can do 2X Surge Handling while Low Frequency Inverters can do 3X Surge handling.

The FUN...
Once you know what your Daily Consumption will be (say 3kWh a day)
Then you want to have "stored" energy for non-generation days. Most people go with 3 days reserve. Now you want to store 9kWh.
Once you know the System Voltage needed to support your loads. Say 3000W (3kw Low Frequency Inverter) that can handle 9000W surge demand @ 24V.
---
One 24V/280AH battery pack has 7,168 Wh or 7.12kWh.
Commonly Available Prebuilts 24V/200AH packs have 5120Wh or 5.12kWh. These can discharge up to 200A for One Hour and take 100A Charge for 2 Hours (Max Limits)
---
Two packs set in Parallel: 280's=560AH/14.2kWh or 200's=400AH/10.24kWh
---
120VAC or 240VAC. I went with 120VAC and it services everything I need/want BUT not an EV or seriously heavy appliances (don't own any that needs power from Solar). Honestly 240VAC is the way to go, it is only 2 120V legs but will allow you to use 240V circuits if you want an EV later or other heavier appliances/devices. There is NO LOSS and ytou gain more flexibility. We never know what tomorrow will bring us.

BTW: DO NOT BUY BATTERIES NOW !
Please look at Will's teardowns and reviews, as well as those from David Poz. That is a Very Deep Dark hole filled with many sheisters & shenanigans played on folks. There is Great, Good, Fair, Bad and Downright Dangerous stuff out there. There is a LOT of experience here and many Known Good Vendors, Suppliers & Brands and also KNOWN BADS too...

Do NOT Rush or Impulse buy ANYTHING until you have a good solid plan and understanding of everything you are embarking on. Without a Plan is a Plan to FAIL and that my dear gets really expensive really fast ! Those $20 & $30 purchases trickle through and add up really fast. There is No Such Thing as a Once in Lifetime Deal, They happen weekly !

BTW: Aims, 3rd Tier Value Product, made in China, branded & packaged low ball but works good stuff. not something I would depend on for an offgrid Full time place, for a weekend shack or a low use RV or something ok.

Case in point, I am very rural & remote, 100% offgrid, can be snowed in for days at a time, I used only Tier-1 product as my life depends on it, sadly that was before Victron was sold in Canada and AIO's otherwise did not exist more or less (2015). I used Midnite Solar Controller ($1K) and a Samlex EVO 4024 Inverter/Charger ($2k) and all the fuses, breakers, boxes, wiring & batteries on top. Got kinda $$$ quickly.

See the links in my signature for much more info.
Hope it helps, Good Luck
 
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