Best budget solution to offset consumption?

[fafrd]

Most of the Hybrid inverter solutions are higher-powered, more expensive and more complex because see they are designed to supply backup power during a grid outage.

I’m looking for the best UL-Approved budget All-in-one or All-in-few solution with a battery to minimize import and export only. Backup power is not a priority at all and can either be impossible (grid-tied functionality only) or can be very limited (120V only, non-automatic, modest output levels).

I’ve seen the Growatt solution of single-phase hybrid + Autotransformer is currently getting a great deal of interest, but the cost and complexity of an Autotransformer is only needed because of backup power capability which is not worth that hassle (and possible safety concerns ) to me.

Are there any split-phase solutions based on high-frequency inverters which are UL listed?

My ideal system would be 24V or 48V battery-based split-phase AC limited to 1.5-2.0kW per phase (meaning 3.0-4.0kW max) with DC-coupled MPPT and either CT sensors for grid and AC-coupled solar or energy meter control/interface.

The Solark Hybrids are close to perfect but much too expensive for my budget (and positioned for higher power output levels).

Are there any otherUL-listed Growatt-like solutions in terms of price point that deliver full Solark-like capability at the more modest power levels (and lower battery voltages) that I am seeking?

 

[mgdean]

So what your saying is the Sol Ark has everything you want and need, but is to expensive. So you need to find a way to disvalue everything you need in order to settle for something sub par from what you want so you can feel justified in not paying for what you really wanted. Good luck in your journey.

 

[Rednecktek]

Unfortunately you're asking for requirements that cancel each other out. Anything that is UL listed is a lot of testing and certifications that cost $$RealMoney and you know the manufacturer isn't going to just eat that. That sticker on the box makes them a Tier-1 product and you're going to have to pay Tier-1 prices for it.

I think the EG4 6Kw split phase might be UL listed, but it's a real short list. I've heard rumor of a Growatt unit that's UL listed now, but I'm blanking on the model.

If we're lucky, maybe @SignatureSolarJames will make a post about what all was required and the hoops they had to jump through to get the UL stickers on their stuff.

 

[fafrd]

Unfortunately you're asking for requirements that cancel each other out. Anything that is UL listed is a lot of testing and certifications that cost $$RealMoney and you know the manufacturer isn't going to just eat that. That sticker on the box makes them a Tier-1 product and you're going to have to pay Tier-1 prices for it.

I think the EG4 6Kw split phase might be UL listed, but it's a real short list. I've heard rumor of a Growatt unit that's UL listed now, but I'm blanking on the model.

If we're lucky, maybe @SignatureSolarJames will make a post about what all was required and the hoops they had to jump through to get the UL stickers on their stuff.

It’s a bit of a mystery why it took over a year for anyone to respond to this thread, but since we’re here:

Neither of you responded to my needs for very modest power levels. 1.5 to 2kW per phase would be more than I need. I’m not interested in a large and expensive inverter capable of much more power than I need.

The very recent news that Victron is coming out with a UL-1741-listed Multiplus II is exactly the sort of solution I was hoping for when I started this thread.

$1500 per phase translates to a split-phase solution supporting compensation offset of up to 2.4kW per phase or up to 4.8kW total for $3-4K (depending on whether you also need their Cerbo communication hub or not).

The only UL-Listed solution I’m aware of currently that comes close to that level is the Schneider Conext XW Pro.

I’ve got another year before I need to make a final decision but Victron Multiplus II is now my leading candidate…

 

[MrM1]

The context SW series meets your per leg requirements, is split phase and costs less than $1800. I run my whole house with one (less the AC, and clothes dryer). Add a charger and your good to go.

 

[fafrd]

The context SW series meets your per leg requirements, is split phase and costs less than $1800. I run my whole house with one (less the AC, and clothes dryer). Add a charger and your good to go.

SW won’t offset load on the AC input side.

XW Pro and Multiplus II (as well as Solark inverters) will.

I’m not interested to rewire my house, so the ability to offset load on the AC input is a critical feature for what I’m looking for…

 

[cs1234]

SW won’t offset load on the AC input side.

XW Pro and Multiplus II (as well as Solark inverters) will.

I’m not o retested to rewire my house, so the ability to offset load on the AC input is a critical feature for what I’m looking for…

The multiplus certainly looks like it will be a nice solution when they actually release it with ul1741. The XW Pro requires too much extra stuff, bumping up the cost, to do export limiting.

 

[fafrd]

The multiplus certainly looks like it will be a nice solution when they actually release it with ul1741. The XW Pro requires too much extra stuff, bumping up the the cost, to do export limiting.

Agree.

Again, those requiring whole-house backup power have a very different set of requirements.

But for load-offset / load-shaving only, power requirements are much more modest (and hopefully costs as well).

 

[OzSolar]

Watts 247 has a list of the features of thier inverters side by side. Still it may not help you find the unicorn you're looking for though.

Watts247 Inverter Specification Sheet

MPP Solar MPP Solar European Inverter,European Inverter,European Inverter PIP 1012 LV-MK,PIP 2024 LV-MK,PIP 3048 LV-MK,LV 6048,LVX 6048,LVX 6048 WP,LV 6548,PIP 1012 LV-MS,PIP 2424 LV-MSD,HV LV 2424,PIP 2724 LV-MR,PIP 8048 MAX,PIP 5048 MKX,U5648GK,U5648MS Solar Charger Mode,Solar Charger Mode,Sol...

docs.google.com

 

[cs1234]

We just want a UL approved version of the GTIL/GTIL2 for the same price.. LOL.

Found a neat thread I hadn't seen about them on another forum.

 

[fafrd]

We just want a UL approved version of the GTIL/GTIL2 for the same price.. LOL.

Found a neat thread I hadn't seen about them on another forum.

I was one of the first members to jump on the GTILs on this forum (in 2021).

I’ve had one on each phase offsetting load for 2-1/2 years now and have offset over 3500kWh of load over that time without a hitch.

For the $275 I paid for each of these 1kW inverters, they represent fantastic value, but the 3 reasons I’m interested to upgrade to a true hybrid such as the Multiplus II are:

A/ Longevity - these little GTILs are not going to last 20 years, let alone 5 and as I move to my ‘final build’ I want it to be based on long-lasting components.

B/ Efficiency - not the highest patriot out, but I’m getting 80% efficiency out of these GTILs where a Multiplus II delivers 94%. That’s a 17.5% increase in peer output from the same DC source.

C/ Flexibility / programmability - the Multiplus II can be controlled by a PLC while the GTILs cannot. They can be used to charge the battery using AC-coupled solar power during midday off-peak hours and to export that energy during peak hours when it generates higher export credits (time-shift). The GRILs deliver great value for money but they are largely ‘black-boxes’ and don’t offer any real programmability.

D/ Safety / UL Listing - I’m obviously comfortable having the GTILs in my home, but having a UL-listed inverter such as the Multiplus II will provide added peace of mind, especially when dealing with the inevitable component failure…

I bought the GTILs because there were no suitable solutions meeting my needs and budget in 2021 in the hopes that better options would materialize before I start my final bulld.

The emergence of the UL-listed Multiplus II is a first offering validating that strategy.

I’m running the GTILs off of a 24V LiFePO4 battery and while I have the flexibility to reconfigure that 2P8S battery as a 2S16P 48V battery, the best got me would be to see Victron complement their first 48V Multiplus II UL-listed offering with a 24V UL-listed offering so that I got the option to go either way once the time comes.

 

[cs1234]

I believe there is a way to use the original UL multiplus 24v with the assistants and CTs to do what you want instead of using the multiplus II. I don't remember what additional step it required vs using a multiplus ii. I've just been waiting for the UL certified multiplus II also.

UL 1741 certificate for Multiplus 24v

I don't know if that's a good enough cert though for installation in the US.. I hate all the UL listing/certified drama.

 

[fafrd]

I believe there is a way to use the original UL multiplus 24v with the assistants and CTs to do what you want instead of using the multiplus II. I don't remember what additional step it required vs using a multiplus ii. I've just been waiting for the UL certified multiplus II also.

UL 1741 certificate for Multiplus 24v

I don't know if that's a good enough cert though for installation in the US.. I hate all the UL listing/certified drama.

Boy am I with you there.

Yeah, I’d seen that earlier UL-listed model and that’s another option to consider.

Permits and AHJ are not a priority for me (while safety is).

Though the other big unknown is how ‘locked up’ these UL1741-listed inverters may be.

A Modbus-capable PLC will allow me to get all the capability I’d like out of a Multiplus II (and probably also put of a Multiplus I) but it’s unclear whether any of that register access will be ‘locked’ out of the UL1741-listed models.

Also, while backup power is not a priority for me either, the Multiplus II 2x120 is actually a very nice design.

Nothing you couldn’t do with a single 130x1 Multiplus II but the difference is that with a 120x2, you can have balanced 120VAC loads in a Critical Loads Subpanel, while with a 1x120 you either need to have all of your Critical Loads on a single leg, accepting whatever imbalance that may create the 99.9% of the time you are on grid, or you need to jump through hoops with your own transfer switch solution.

I’m hoping Victron is planning to introduce a UL1741-listed version of a 48VDC Multiplus II 2x120 and then follows that with a UL1741-listed 24V varient,

Once my GTILs poop out on me or when we finally get an EV, I’ll need to move forward with whatever is the most attractive option at that time, but I should have at least another year if not two before I reach that point, so I’m hoping the positive trend continues..,